The whole chart is rather fascinating and eye opening: Vehicle visibility
Astounding. Hummer H2 beating the Sierra by 3m is incredible. A truck designed almost exclusively to express how selfish you are and it has better viability.
This chart is eye-opening…I always thought Hummers were made by…Hummer…
GM marketing. They purchased the hummer brand from AM General. OG Hummer (later renamed H1) was based on AM General’s military Humvee design, but released to the civilian market. H2 and H3 were designed by GM for mass marketing. Can be seen in the price. H1 nearly 10x more than H2 and H3.
Also, the H1 was 10x better for what it was designed for than the H2 and H3.
The H1 was not designed for commuting to work.
Oh, neat. Thanks for all the information
Thanks, embedding:
An articulated quarry hauler is barely worse than a pick-up truck
‘murca
I’d be curious to see that chart for a Toyota Yaris. I drove one for a few years and it was almost unnerving how little hood it had.
Same here. Going from a 1990 VW Passat to a 2009 Yaris was wild.
I will gladly trade my SUV in for a gently used M1
Only 20 gallons to the mile, not bad
Absolutely nobody will cut you off in traffic, though. At least nobody who wants to see the next sunrise…
what if the M1 doesn’t have a touch screen though
good
touchscreens should be banned from vehiclesIt actually does, but it’s a hundred times more useful. It helps make things go boom.
Touch targeting
This is actually a good point. And here’s a video discussing the issue.
That’s not to mention the optics.
#4 is the optic for the RWS. This cannot be used to aim the main gun, but it can be used as an alternate form of CITV, especially since it’s so damned high off the ground, it may be able to see over obstacles. Not as good as CITV in the thermal range, though.
That being said, some civilian vehicles are gonna have their own camera systems too, so…
Civilian vehicles should all have thermals and a night driving HUD. If I’m paying 30,000 dollars then they can damn well put some actual stuff in there. Headlights being weaponized isn’t something we have to tolerate.
Sorry, no can do, also cupholders are extra, best we can do is plastic hubcaps and a 10,000/6 month warranty.
This is misleading because being higher up you can see much better further ahead, and over obstacles and barriers. Your special awareness is much better at distances that are relevant for avoiding collisions. If something is 1.5m away its too late anyway.
The angle is also incorrect because they are putting the eyes of the driver straight in line with the hood, which is not how its been in any vehicle I’ve ever driven, the head should be higher or further forward.
The origin of the line is at head height…
Also these vehicles gain in distant visibility at the expense of everyone else on the road, blocking their views.
Also, an astounding proportion of fatal pedestrian collisions happen at low-speed, close to home where these sightlines explicitly matter.
I have conservative family members who deliberately go for the biggest SUV with the lowest gas mileage available just to “stick it to the government.” If the government told them that they couldn’t drive a small car, they’d be out there shopping for a small car. It’s incredibly childish.
Yeah, a lot of stupid culture war crap is now tied up into the car your own.
If people actually prioritized performance, handling, visability, cost to drive, and cabin features, then a LOT of people would probably be better off with a sedan.
If you don’t need the space, you can get so much more bang for your buck with a smaller car. The $10k more you spend on the larger form factor could go toward a nicer power train and cabin luxury features.
Most other countries I’ve been to, all the trades use these, and seem to have no problem getting projects done.
Let’s ignore the lack of crush zones, air bags, seat belts, re-enforced door panels and cabin pillars, for a moment. (The lack of any safety features is why they are mostly illegal to operate on roads in the US.)
How far do you think that roller skate could pull my empty 24,000lbs tandem axle tilt bed trailer? Or even my 4000lbs trailer? On a highway at highway speeds.
Not to mention longer term cost of maintenance and insurance.
“15 minutes could save you
15% or more100% on car insurance”(by leaving the scene of the accident as rapidly as possible. ‘Geico’? No no, ‘Guy, Go’.)
Ya know it probably says something that the concept of “cabin luxury features” made we want to burn the inside of a car. Ill stick to my lack of cupholders in my 30 year old car thanks, but seriously when I see the interior of modern cars they make me want to rip into them with wire cutters. Bunch of useless crap like lane assist, cruise control, and addaptive road assist, powered stearing is the only luxury I need.
Fun fact I am only 24, I just am tech literate in the way that causes me to think 90% of technology is worthless crap that shouldve never been created and needs to be recycled.
Cruise control is hardly luxury, most cars have had it for a while
I love cruise control. Get on the highway, set it and go. Ideally find someone driving the same direction and speed, and follow along behing them. No more stressing that I’m going to get a speeding ticket.
Im mostly joking that most of the cars ive owned havent had cruise control. Gotta love old base model jeeps.
True. I’m mostly saying that you could probably take that cash and upgrade to a nicer car that isn’t covered in creaking injection molded plastic inside, or something with nicer seats and upholstery.
AKA decent materials, and not the cheap garbage you get on a base model American SUV.
I get that its just the concept disgusts me, but then again my Scottish ancestors would rise from the dead and kill me for wasting money on such superfluous things. Profligacy is quite literally killing the planet, ya aint gonna catch me wasting money on stupid pointless shit too often. My grandmother though aint bound by such ancestral limits and it annoys me.
I’m almost 40 and a lot of my cars in my teens and 20s were from the '80s and '90s. Almost everything I’ve owned has had at least a rudimentary cruise control although there are some ('80s Bronco II, '95 Miata, early '90s 240sx, 99 Impreza Wagon) where it was broken or I just never used it.
All that said, I LOVE the radar controlled cruise control on my current vehicle. I’ve used it for at least 20,000 miles of driving at this point. Interstate, highway, city, you name it… Pretty much any time I want to maintain a steady speed over 28 and there’s not a lot of stop and go traffic. I hate thinking about life without it now (and I hate using standard cruise control without radar)!
Toddler core behaviour
I had a student get just the worst giant diesel truck that was constantly breaking down so she could “stick it to the libs”.
Girl was 18. Future of the nation?
Yeah, at some point we’re going to have to crank up gas prices
budgeting and foregoing food to own the libs
GOP judge declaring NHTSA unconstitutional in 3… 2… 1…
Humans have quite literally invented cars that are better at killing people, especially children.
“I don’t want children to die in accidents,” say people as they drive huge masses of metal that might do just that.
I’ll keep driving my PEV Minivan that has 360 cameras and I can see in front of me easily. I care about children’s lives, unlike bubba in his lifted pickup truck. Why do you need a 4x4 lifted 3 feet and you live in the suburbs?
…you know what they say about guys with big lift…
Funny thing is, the people I know with large vehicles around here always bemoan how difficult it is to park, yet don’t want to solve the obvious problem because twice a year they want to haul a fridge to the dump or pick up something from the home improvement store rather than have it delivered or rent a truck for an hour.
Counting the differences in cost (loan, gas, expected maintenance, insurance etc) it came out to where I would have to use the truck to haul something at least a very weekend possibly more to break even with a much newer car vs just renting a truck once or twice a year. Pickups are almost universally owned by people too stupid for middle school math imo.
always bemoan how difficult it is to park
I’ve made multuple older men incredibly upset by laughing at them when they say this
They get pissy and respond with “well you’re some skinny long haired hippie who drives an EV so what do you know?” Which, yeah, all of that is true
But then I pull up the pictures of me 4x4ing in the rain and snow through fire smoke at work, pointing out that I drove a RAM3500 fully kitted out and lifted with a giant set of 4 110g tanks in the bed blocking anything other than my mirror and cam view, yet I only had issues parking when people didn’t know how to stay in their own lines, and that I regularly had to squeeze my truck into areas with an inch or less of clearance in order to do my fucking job on a construction site, and I never hit anything but a rock (downhill, someone left a fucking rug out on some dirt in the rain and when my truck hit it I just slid til I hit the rock, company deemed me blameless)
They usually get flustered and change the subject p quick at that point
Your minivan is huge too…
Yes, but mini vans aren’t lifted 20 ft off the ground with absurdly huge hoods for no apparent reason.
The reason trucks and SUVs are killing kids is because you can see a 4ft tall person that isn’t standing 100 yards in front. These are the only vehicles with this problem.
Additionally, the raised and blunt hood height makes a full-body impact with no force dissipation much more likely, particularly for shorter people, where a more traditional hood shape allows a struck pedestrian to roll over the top and avert some of the force of the strike
But it’s still blocking the view for us in normal sizes cars.
I don’t know how many times I’ve had to hope for the best and carefully inch forwards/backwards when being next to a minivan/SUV/pickup. I’ve been close to being in an accident a number of times because of, well mostly, SUVs.
20-foot lifted vehicles would probably be considerably safer:
- They’d easily have the clearance to safely navigate over most pedestrians in their path.
- Any attempts to balance them well would be incredibly expensive and you’d likely have many drivers whose cars would fall over from insufficiently sized tires or whatever.
Hmmm… 🤔 Now that I think about it, maybe we should subsidize these lift kits to make this a self-solving problem
Why do you need a 4x4 lifted 3 feet and you live in the suburbs?
Penis issue
Driving a truck and not wanting children to die in accidents are in-fact not in conflict with each other. Or are you implying that truck drivers do want them to die?
Driving a truck and not wanting children to die in accidents are in-fact not in conflict with each other.
Then design trucks which are not as deadly to pedestrians on impact.
No, but it clearly isn’t important enough to them to influence their choice.
Why do little cars have to withstand a collision with a huge truck but trucks just get bigger and bigger? The new Hummer is over 9,000lbs (4,090 kg)
At 60 MPH the Hummer EV has the same kinetic energy as a 1993 Honda Civic Hatchback going 120mph.
Trying to imagine my old Civic doing that …… holy shit that engine is winding up, glowing red hot, and I probably needed rocket boosters!
Works fine in need for speed 😏
Forced induction will get your old Civic to 120mph in a jiffy. 😆
The only 93 Civic that hit 120mph was falling out of a plane at 35000’.
Holy shit
wtf in Europe that thing couldn’t be driven with a regular class B drivers license
Commercial license requirements for full sized trucks over a certain size and weight would be an excellent solution. In addition to the increased effort and cost to get one, commercial licenses are way easier to lose.
I agree. It’s felt weird each time I’ve rented a moving truck and was able to drive it myself. They are giant and I’m not used to driving something so big plus no visibility out of the rear of the vehicle. And on top of that, they are so massive that mistakes will hurt more and will be harder to notice while they are happening.
Though even normal licenses are too easy IMO. I haven’t been tested or trained on driving in decades. Most people don’t know how 2 way stop signs work, I’ve even had a cop wave me through when it was their right of way. The bar should be higher for getting and keeping a license and lower for losing it. And “but people need cars to get to work and such” addressed with better mass transportation and city planning.
The cybertruck is like 7k lbs.
Regardless of truck size, I don’t think tractor trailers are going anywhere. Even if we made trucks smaller those would still be out there
Smaller trucks would still get in accidents though, and I imagine they would be less deadly
Man, if only we could separate freight from commuter traffic. Like, imagine if all those tractor trailers were on their own separate road, but make it out of, IDK, metal or something so it can withstand the weight better. You could even just have metal right under the wheels, to reduce costs. But what do I know, I’m just some pie in the sky nobody who doesn’t know what he’s talking about
Not to mention it would reduce all the underride crashes.
All these improved vehicle safety standards are generally for bumper-to-bumper collisions, not windshield-to-truck-bed. Frontline released a well-done 2023 episode on it. Highly recommend.
Edit: md link
Tractor trailers are heavily regulated with training, licensing, driving hours and sleep break logging etc. Are they really a significant source of pedestrian collisions?
You should check out the safety stuff with them and cars. You’ll stay near one on the road again.
I really just want small cars to make a comeback
Even if we made trucks smaller those would still be out there
If we made them smaller there’d just be more of them on the road. There’d also be higher prices for everything to compensate for the extra expense of having those extra trucks and bodies to pilot them.
Cars are getting a lot heavier now that EVs are becoming mainstream.
I mean they’re getting heavier, but not, like, whole number multiples heavier. An electric might be some 60% heavier than a comparable gas car. But the aforementioned hummer is more than 5 times heavier than even a heavy electric “utility vehicle”. That’s more than 400% heavier.
Huh? Are you saying heavy electric utility vehicles are less than 2k lbs? I think you’re math is a bit off, or I’m misunderstanding you. 9k lbs is heavy but it’s only around 2k lbs heavier than it’s gas counter parts (most SUVs are around 6.5-7k lbs). Most electric cars are 1-2k lbs heavier than their gas counterparts already. Batteries are not light.
As it is the US has no pedestrian safety standards at the federal level. I’m pretty sure if GM wanted to put out a truck with running chainsaws all over it then it would be perfectly legal as far as the NHTSA is concerned, although some state regulators might have a problem with it which is probably why it doesn’t happen in reality.
You’re in the process of describing a Cybertruck, just the misfitting panel ‘teeth’ aren’t rotating
I have a Honda Fit (compact 4 seater) and absolutely LOVE the little car, plus it’s easier to park. But holy shit looking for a compact is hard! Everything is a fucking SUV or truck these days! Just count the number of sedans vs SUVs next time you’re out and about. My favorite cars, the 2 door Mini Cooper and VW Buggy, aren’t even made any more.
Even the small cars have been progressively getting bigger over time, it’s horrible
Some of that is crumple zones and airbags, but yes there’s pretty much nothing for “small” cars (10 to 14 feet long) in the US.
Since the fuel efficiency standards are based on the vehicles footprint, going a few inches bigger allows for a slightly more powerful but also slightly less fuel efficient engine. So the car is roomier, more powerful, and doesn’t get penalized for lower mpg.
Small trucks are penized for not being fuel efficent enough. I really wish that lead to smaller electric or hybrid trucks like the Maverick, but people have been conviced that those smaller efficient trucks are bad.
I wish the standards were not based on size, but by vehicle type. Same end result for trucks being popular, but at least smaller trucks would be viable alternatives to sedans again.
Or hell, just base it on straight up fuel efficiency. If there’s a small car that’s already more fuel efficient than everything else on the market, there should be no disincentive to sell more of them, even if that fuel efficiency doesn’t improve over time.
A larger vehicle is only better if it’s being used to move more people (that would otherwise be using another vehicle). Maybe instead of mpg (miles per gallon) it should be pmpg (person miles per gallon), where it not only depends on the vehicle itself but how many people are expected to ride in it regularly (which the manufacturer can add seats for but is more dependent on the owner).
Going by seats would encourage the already annoying four door pickup trend since it means every truck needs to be longer to compensate. I mean, wouldn’t a smaller two seater truck that gets better mileage be an improvement over a full size four door truck?
A small two door pickup that gets mileage close to a similarly sized hatchback would be awesome. But it would be hard to do in the US right now because of mpg standards being tied to size, which are also the reason so many tiny cars are underpowered to squeeze out that last few mpg.
My dream car: An EV version of the 1955 Nash Metropolitan, seen here in this silly ad photo:
(Sorry, it’s hard to find pictures that give a true indication of the smallness of the car. Also, mine would be the red and white two tone variety.)
Yes!
Even that was in an era or needlessly ego-boosting giant cars, going utilitarian to get a better product, better lives on average, even save resources - amazing (but with the cardinal sin of not being expensive enough and thus not as financially profitable).
For the same reason I would love to get a normally viable car of much smol.
Like a bit more modern version of Figaro:
Or a sexy mid-engine Autozam:
Kei cars are qewl!
I just want a tiny electric hatchback, like, Honda fit sized, that has like 150+ mile range, and doesn’t use an outdated charging standard. I’ve considered a Nissan Leaf but they are still sticking with the chademo charger port, which is way less common.
I want a neat little 600cc kei car. I haven’t had any luck finding one.
If you want one that’s more than 25 years old, you can get those legally imported to the U.S. from Japan.
https://www.japan-partner.com/keicars.html
How stupid a law is that?
For the first time ever, manufacturers would be required to study the impact of test dummies hit outside of vehicles. The rules would likely change the design of what America drives permanently.
That’s all the article says about the actual rule changes. Based on this information alone, I know very little about what will actually change.
I feel like the NHTSA should do way more if they can and argue for limits on light truck sizes in their length, height, weight, and perhaps classification.
Well, for one thing, an M1 Abrams main battle tank has better front sightlines than most trucks on the road today.
And it isn’t even that much more dangerous to get hit by because of the giant flat-face front impact planes of the trucks. Used to be if you got hit by a car it would roll you up over the hood, now you just die.
I have to imagine that will impact the testing and design at least somewhat.
Edit: fixed the image link
For the first time ever, manufacturers would be required to study the impact of test dummies hit outside of vehicles
But that will reveal a LOT of corroborating information for what we know, which is how dangerous they are. It’s a good thing to have more data
It’s out of control. I drive a 2019 Kona and I moved to that from my 2013 Elantra. Last time I was at the dealer was looking at the new Konas and they’re bigger, too big for me.
The most jarring thing is when I was picking up a prescription for my cat, and on the way home I was driving next to a plain vanilla, factory-stock GMC truck whose hood was literally taller than my entire car. And I don’t drive a miata or some other sub-compact, I drive a freaking Nissan Leaf, so about the size of your average sedan.
Since then it’s like a switch flipped in my brain, and I can’t unsee just how insanely huge modern-day pickup trucks have gotten.
Let’s target them in order to lower the demand for fossil fuels. The drivers of these vehicles are the ones driving up gas prices; and then subsequently crying about gas prices.
There should really be a redistribution gas tax, another dollar per gallon on gas which then goes back split evenly to every American. Incentivizes less gas usage while avoiding the regressive nature of a sales tax. Canada has something like this.
Ruinous politically so it would never happen but it would be a good plan.
This seems like it could lead to significant innovation in vans in North America, or set least US/Canada. Van pickups, van sedans, van Goghs? After the initial temper tantrums, I think people will buy whatever comes out of the design phase. There used to be a lot of “beef” about emission control devices, but not so much anymore. Those folks moved on.
Bring back the supercharged Dodge Car-a-Van and we have ourselves a deal.
The last frontier, that showed up like forty years ago.
