I don’t care where y’all are from as long as you’re not a dumbass dickhead.
Oh. I’m shit out of luck then.
Well, I also sit in front of a mirror.
Terrible news, guy who just started posting on the Internet
the default country
Assumed by Americans which is an important detail.
To be honest I also find myself assuming this frequently. And I’m rarely incorrect
Yup, if it’s English-language, it’s probably American unless otherwise noted
Weird to go into a website based in the States, with a large audience of Americans, all speaking in the American dialect of English primarily about events in US news and politics, and then get mad because it’s America-centric.
If I was using a website called “Facebloke” that was well known to have been made and ran in the UK, I’d assume everyone on it was British.
I’m ready to discuss maple syrup on HoserLoonieSorryEh
Or the Australian version “Matebook”, full with Aussies.
Mate.
We call it Cuntface down here.
To be fair, we call everyone Cuntface down here.
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Ah, yes! The 3 billion Americans on Facebook!
And why would you make that assumption? The internet has no borders, so it doesn’t really matter where or by whom something is made. Especially if the language is English, which has somewhere between 1.5 and 2 billion speakers worldwide.
“Facebloke”
Yes, I saw that. But it is obviously meant to be an analogy for how Facebook is a website famously made in America by an American.
More like Faceberk, amirite?
As an American who just wants things organized clearly, I find it annoying too
I wonder if a news community with a “no mentioning the US” rule would work. Not out of any hate, just as something arbitrary like “don’t use the letter E”.
There was one on Reddit that had a rule that no more than 50% of a story could be about the US and if the US was one of two parties they preferred the other point of view.
Well Al Gore invented the internet so the internet is more a.USA thing 🤣🤣
Heavily inspired by the french Minitel but yes
Heavily inspired by the Sumerian cuneiform but yes
Minitel launched in 1982, well after work had begun on interconnections between different computer networks, using the predecessor protocols to TCP/IP and what would become the addressing/domain name system. Minitel launched on protocols that were ultimately incompatible with the rest of the Internet, and didn’t have an easy way to actually get joined in.
Minitel was more of an alternative internet than it was the inspiration for the migration of the internet to becoming a HTTP/www-centered network.
Howdy y’all bros. My name is Todd Bonzalez and I am from one of the great American places foreigners know from your TV shows.
To be fair, the US has the largest number of English-speakers of any country in the world. As a first language, it has five times as many native English speakers as second place (the UK). It also has one of the highest Internet penetration rates in the world, meaning most of those English-speakers are also Internet users.
The US is a single country that is three-quarters the population of the entire European Union, and nearly all of its inhabitants speak English and use the Internet. So yes, if you pick a random user on an English social media page, odds are very good that person is an American. If you were to guess any random English-speaking Internet user’s nationality, “American” is the best possible guess. But go on a Spanish language forum or a French language forum and nobody will assume you’re American.
Consequently, Americans generate the majority or large plurality of English-language Internet content.
Edit: Please stop replying with “English is a lingua franca for non-native English speakers”. I never made the claim that someone who uses English on the Internet is likely a native English speaker. I am claiming the converse—that people who natively speak English are likely to use English on the Internet.
Consequently, Americans generate the majority of English-language Internet content.
False. Yes, it is larger than any other individual English speaking group but accounts for less than a fifth of the total English speakers.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_English-speaking_population
I wouldn’t have guessed Nigeria is the third largest English speaking group.
This point was plainly addressed. Read carefully before going in guns-blazing.
Do you think Nigerians use the Internet as much as Americans?
Again, you are completely missing the point of the internet and English usage on it. People are using English as a lingua franca. There are a lot more non-native English speakers on the internet than native English speakers.
So no, odds are not that it is an American you are speaking to, just because that person speaks English. You are literally regurgitating the fallacy that OP is about.
lingua franca
I love that the real lingua franca, a term from both Latin and Greek roots, literally meaning the language of the Franks (French) is English. Plus, also, fuck you Esperanto!
We should really be counting English literate people, since nobody here is talking, and literacy is more reading/writing.
Literacy is pretty broad too. It doesn’t imply that it’s your native language, nor if you can speak the language (whether you can do that very well or not).
Literacy is going to be a bonefide requirement for most of the internet, with some exceptions, like text to speech and speech recognition stuff, people with disabilities who may not be able to see properly or at all… Stuff like that.
I’m sorry but this is nonsense. I’m in a lot of online communities where everyone uses English, despite it being nearly nobody’s first language. It just happens to be the only language that everyone there knows. Language is no indication of nationality, especially online.
And to be honest, in those places the assumption is usually that everyone is European, which I can imagine is just as annoying for the stray American.
I think you misunderstand.
What I am saying is that of all Internet users that use English, Americans are by far the largest group due to it being a very large country, (third most populous in the world) with a high Internet penetration (97%), and whose residents speak English as their main language (78.3%).
This list puts US at ~297m English speakers which is the largest group from one single country, that is true. But 297m / 1,537m = The US has 19.35% of English speakers globally.
You are likely also greatly underestimating current internet connectivity, older smartphones have changed things for poorer countries a lot over the past decade. For example, India has only 62.6% of people as internet users - but that’s still 880m people and probably most of their 125m English speakers. Nigeria has 63.8% internet users, but that’s 136m internet users. And they also have 125m English speakers, who again, are more likely to be the people who can afford an English education, and also a smartphone. And then there’s Pakistan with another 100m English speakers and 70.8% internet users, etc.
Just 3 countries, (2 of which were 1 country 80 years ago) and you’re close to that 300 million count already.
The list also gives US as 92.4% internet users, for what it’s worth. A little less than 97% and not even in the top 20 countries by percentage, which is surprising.
The internet is less American than ever. It’s just that most non-American people probably have non-English language spaces they can choose to gather in addition to the English-dominated spaces. Americans, on the other hand, are more likely to be monolingual English speakers and so they concentrate in the English-dominated spaces.
And non-Americans are all so used to people assuming American defaultism in English-dominated internet spaces because it was historically hugely expensive to get online and was overwhelmingly American English-speaking, that it’s not even worth correcting when it happens the millionth time.
I’ve also put non-metric and US currency conversions in posts online many times. Not because I’m American or use them in daily life. It was just less annoying to convert them when writing rather than hear the inevitable multiple complaints about not understanding things in meters and dessicated jokes like “that’s probably $2 in real money”.
You’re either overestimating the accuracy of your assumptions about your online interactions and/or seeing selection bias from your immersion in otherwise culturally isolated spaces.
What I am saying is that of all Internet users that use English, Americans are by far the largest group
No, they didn’t misunderstand. It is you who are massively misunderstanding. You are suffering from the erronous assumption that people who speak English on the internet are native English speakers when that it is not so at all. People speak English on the internet because it is the largest commonly understood language. So people from non-English speaking countries are using it as well. And there are a heck of a lot more non-native English speakers in the world than native English speakers.
So you are most likely at any time on the internet to be speaking to a non-native English speaker, and thus definitely not an American.
I did not claim the people who use English on the Internet are likely native English speakers.
I made the converse claim—that people whose native language is English are likely to use English on the Internet.
But I would argue that the rest of the world also uses primarily English online. And just by virtue of being the rest of the world, outnumbers the Americans.
In other words, of all Internet users that use English, the vast majority is likely not American.
Of course I don’t have data to back this up, except anecdotally.
Americans generate the majority of English-language Internet content.
Doubt.
There are 1.3 billion people who use English on the internet as a first or second language.
Not all Internet users generate the same amount of content. In addition to Americans being proud blabbermouths in general, people from wealthy countries generate more content than those from poorer countries. The US is among the wealthiest countries in the world.
Although it is not the most representative, nearly half of all Reddit users are American. American media outlets have immense global reach. You can probably name four or five American media outlets just off the top of your head, even if you’re not American. The USA’s geopolitical power means people are always talking about American politics or what America’s leaders are doing, which draws engagement from Americans like a lamp draws moths. 7 out of the top 10 English-language YouTube channels are American (fully or partially).
It’s pretty much impossible to prove, but I think the claim that Americans generate most of the content on the Internet is likely true or very close to true.
It’s even more convincing if you exclude English Internet users from India, as a quick visit to any forum dominated by Indian users will cause you to quickly realise that the language used there is not really English but a mix of English and Hindi which is not comprehensible to non-Indians.
Again, the numbers you linked shows that you are more likely to speak to a non-American on reddit than an American. Your entire premise is flawed from the beginning.
FYI
According to Wikipedia the percentage of English speakers located in the US is lower that 20%. Does this mean that only 1 in 5 users is from the US?
Population of the US: 334.914.895, Population of Europe: 745.173.774. 334.914.895/745.173.774 = 0,449%
English Speakers in the US: 297.400.000. English Speakers in Europe: 260.000.000. So you have about 37,4M more English speakers in the US than in Europe.
The average American uses only English language forums.
The average European who speaks English will probably spend some portion of their time using whatever their native language is.
The average English speaker in Africa is not as likely to have an Internet connection.
The average English speaker in China is likely to not be able to access English social media sites (great firewall).
Many English-speakers in India post online in a mix of English and Hindi that non-Indians find difficult to comprehend.
You’re correct that the claim that the US is ¾ the population of Europe is erroneous. But it is ¾ the population of the EU. I’ve corrected this.
I admire your determination to bend your perception of facts to fit your narrative.
- Russia, Kanada, Australia, South America? Apparently they ceased to exist.
- Africa? They still live in mud and abject poverty. There is no electricity nor Internet.
- China? They’re 100% locked in. (No bots no nothing.)
- Indians can’t write proper English (a bit rich coming from an USAmerican)
Surely you have a bit more thinking power than that. If you gave each of your bullet points a mere five seconds each of critical thought, you wouldn’t have made this ridiculous comment.
Those countries you mentioned? Of course there are people living in them. But there aren’t as many English-speakers as in America. I didn’t say all, I say most (this will be a recurring theme).
With the exception of southern Africa (76%), the rest of Africa has Internet penetration rates below 50%. As low as 27% in east Africa. Remember, I didn’t say all, I said most.
China’s great firewall prevents most people from accessing the outside Internet, and many Chinese people don’t care to. I know this, because I’m fucking Chinese. Is it possible to circumvent? Sure, if you’re willing to play VPN whack-a-mole with the CCP or are lucky enough to be the 1% of China that lives in Hong Kong or Macau. But again, I said most, I didn’t say all.
You also clearly have never been on any forums populated by Indian users if you think that I’m only saying Indians use unintelligible English on the Internet because I’m racist. They code-switch between English and Hindi. If you don’t know Hindi, you won’t understand it. Are all posts like this? Of course not. But a great deal are. I never said all, I said most.
Here are random top comments from the top posts of Reddit’s r/Indiasocial that show what I’m talking about:
Kal bolne ja rha Hu usko . Want to get it over it once and for all been bugging me since some time . No boldiya toh sahi hai Padhai kar lunga .
Kassh bta pata mummy ko apni sab problems. Bta bii nhi pata kyuki woh chinta karengii
OP ke AAnde jalwa diye
Folks, look what I found during cleaning today😭🥺🥹
I am so happy that my mom has still kept all of stuff in the store room. Woh bhi kya din the🥹🥹
Bhai hamare side ke Ghar mein kirayedar rehte Hain. To un baccho kii ball hamari chat ya backyard mein aa jati thi aur mere ek Purina badi wali thaili bharke balls bahut variety Hain par mummy nikalne NAHI deti.
Time to leave this sub. Har dusara post my gf/bf made this, i went for date, gift given by my bf/gf. Had hai
And also, I don’t use American English. I live in America but I am a Hongkonger and use British English.
They code-switch between English and Hindi. If you don’t know Hindi, you won’t understand it. Are all posts like this? Of course not.
You’re so close. Let me give you another hint: What do you think every other regional sub looks like? (I speak multiple languages, so I’ve been to multiple regionals - including in Languages I don’t really speak)
Also, yes it is a bit racist to assume that Indians are only able to converse in an Hindi/English mix and unable to converse in proper English. On top of that it is a bit stupid to assume all of India speaks Hindi - e.g. most of Bengalurians speak Kannada.
But there aren’t as many English-speakers as in America. I didn’t say all, I say most (this will be a recurring theme).
You’re correct. It’s a recurring theme. You have been made aware by multiple people now that you over-inflate the percentage of USAmericans among the users of English-speaking forums and that you have been incredibly ignorant about it.
I think none will dispute that US located users are in the majority - the majority is however not as big as you make it out to be. (and your reasoning is - for lack of a better term - atrocious)
The only thing I am claiming is that a majority or large plurality of English language Internet users are American, meaning if you are to assume a country of origin (note: if), assuming the user is an American is the one most likely to be accurate. I think I’ve said enough on the matter.
If you disagree, that’s fine but I’m tired of this conversation.
The more egalitarian principle would be to not assume. I won’t deny that. People from more minority locales have every right to be upset at being marginalized.
But at the same time, whenever I read passive aggressive comments on socials from residents of crown countries or from EAASL people around the world removeding about US defaultism as if people are doing it just to be ignorant dicks, I can only think to myself, “Uhh, hello? What do you think the demographics of this space were? What did you expect?”
Americans are hardly the majority of the world’s English speakers, but for all the reasons you listed, they tend to remain a massive plurality, if not an outright overwhelming majority, of any mainstream online English language platform. No, that’s not a license to perpetuate US defaultism. But like… read the room, people. Your good fight is far more uphill than you seem to think it is.
I mean the us dwarfs other english speaking countries
Your comment is very typical of that (fallacious) US centrism. People write in English on the internet because that is the universal language. There are far more secondary English speakers on the internet than primary English speakers.
because that is the universal language*grince des dents*
because it is the international language of this days and time.Le français était à un moment donné, hein
Yeah XD Now english is the lingua franca
Tons of people speak English as a second language, on the internet
Yeah like India
135 million english speakers is less than 300 million
Mr Blott really really really likes to denigrate Americans. Don’t rain on his parade
What on Earth are you on about? “denigrate Americans”. They are pointing out facts. That you apparently are so fragile that you consider that denigration is entirely on yourself.
Look at their comment history. They can’t go two days without getting in a dig at Americans. Even when it’s completely irrelevant and off topic. I’m just pointing out that this person has a bone to pick and not to take it personally.
The funny part is that they’re often completely wrong when they try to talk shit. Like here, thinking that India having a larger population than the US is some kind of gotcha moment, despite less than 10% of that population speaking English.
I’ll just transcribe a few lovely comments from our good friend Mr Blott.
Glock pistols popular in US because of the proliferation of fucking cowards
Scared of their own fucking shadows, those pussies
What’s the difference between a cow and 9/11
You’d stop milking a cow after 23 years
Seems a bit unnecessary when you could just dress the ivy up like schoolkids and the yanks would wipe it out in a week
German
I’m guessing a yank whose great great great great great great grandfather once wiped his removed on a strudel
They’re using American weapons, they should just aim for schools
Holy fuck, yanks are weird
God I’d hate to have such poor reading comprehension. You’d last about a minute in UK based communities lol
You’re not out of the dark ages, you quivering shitebag lol
You mean prison slavery? That’s the US, get on it lol
Did it come out of the States?
If so, guaranteed utter fucking horseshit
You can punch your hand through your plasterboard mate lol
You can always spot an American because they’re so fuckin scared of everything. Look, this one’s scared of his own shite 😂
Of course!
Just lose the -
- Guns
- Tiny-penis trucks
- the “right” to hate-speech
- the religious weirdo thing
And you’ll be getting close to the 20th century!
Know how yous get upset when people say “Americans are stupid”
Literally a third of you have demonstrated that you’d eat gravel if someone said it’d cure immigrants
A third. So lets just say only half of the other two thirds are stupid
That’s quite a few. Almost a quarter pounder
Yous cunts are greedy to the point of being fuckin EVIL
That’s just… evil, taking money from poor folk and their kids
How are yous letting evil cunts do this to your fellow citizens? How are you not fucking getting the flaming torches out?
Selfish fucking cunts, the lot of you. Stand up for not just yourselves, for all of yous
The bot is only “spreading misinformation” to people who are too stupid to realise that “left” and “right” mean politically different things in different countries
Mostly the yanks
I feel really sorry for this guy
What kind of unhinged parents call their kid Tyreek?
This is just from the past few weeks lmao. This dude has issues.
Surprised at a yank using the word “denigrate” without clutching their pearls at the etymology of it lol
I mean, we did invent this cursed network. It’s our job to ruin it.
One day, we will shitpost our way to freedom
Don’t be so self-involved. Try visit China for once and you will get sick of the word “China”, it’s literally in everything there :), like communist party’s intelligence service :)
The thing is we are not talking about visiting countries. We are talking about the virtual World Wide Web.
The “World” wide web not USA wide web
its just the loudest voices that seem to drive the world.
This is why:
The US has more allocated IPv4 addresses and more users per allocated IPv4 address than any other country, by wide margins - and IPv6 adoption is not that widespread yet. It is entirely rational to assume that an English-speaking person on the Internet is from the US, given no other information.
Nope https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_Internet_users
Strangely enough English is spoken in countries other than the US and even more use it as a lingua franca.
It is interesting you think IPv6 is not widespreaad https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html
Of course English is spoken in other countries, and other countries have high numbers of internet users, but it does not follow that English is a commonly used language for internet users in other countries. Most Chinese are probably speaking Chinese, most Indians are probably speaking Hindi.
The IPv6 graph you linked shows that adoption is still less than 50%, and I’m not clear on their methodology… does “users that access Google” mean users with Google accounts? or individual users that use google.com? or does it include all of their cloud services? do web servers linking content from Google Ads count? does this data represent mostly end users, or also infrastructure connections?
When non-native English speakers are navigating in a non-national internet setting we use English. I have gathered from the many American comments in this thread, that that fact is apparently incredibly difficult for Americans to gauge. Nevertheless, it is a fact.
That would be 3 addresses per US citizen. You have some whales like MS in there, just because your companies can grow dangerously big.
2016 is a little far, isn’t it?
I hate to say it, but, these things don’t change a lot, or quickly.
IP blocks, or “large groups of IP addresses” are assigned to regional internet registries, or RIRs which then hand them out from there. There’s a couple RIRs. I think five in total? ARIN covers North America, and has, by far, the most IP addresses given out.
There’s also RIPE, in Europe, APNIC, for Asia and the Pacific areas, including China and Australia, AfriNIC, which is basically all of Africa… If that wasn’t obvious. And lacnic, which is South America.
Large IP blocks can, but rarely ever do, get transferred between RIRs.
But wait, it gets more complicated. IP addresses allocated in one region could be used anywhere in the world. The vast majority are not, and it’s important to note that because of global routing, you can’t have a block smaller than 256 addresses allocated in the default free zone (DFZ). The DFZ is the part of the internet that doesn’t have a “default gateway”. All routes are advertised, and by those advertisements are learned by others. The routers in the DFZ only have so much memory, and there was a crisis a while ago when the memory of most of the routers in the DFZ were dangerously close to being full… That was around when ipv6 was first switched on. The routing memory is extremely fast, because it needs to be. Looking up a route in a table with a million+ entries takes time, but that time needs to be so short that latency is effectively mitigated. So that memory is some of the fastest used in tech at times, notwithstanding newer technologies.
I’m off topic. Anyways, my point is, ARIN is big. They have a lot of IPs. However allocation doesn’t and shouldn’t imply usage. A large number of addresses are allocated for US military use that are basically unseen in the internet. There’s a few infamous /8 blocks of around 16.7 million addresses that don’t get advertised and can’t be used by anyone besides the US military. I forget which branch of military owns it. They’ve owned it since the internet started giving out allocations (more or less) and today one of those /8 blocks is worth billions, with a cost of about $50 per IP.
So yeah, the US has a lot of IP allocation, they also have a large amount of unused IP addresses.
I would love to see a more recent source if you have one.
Regardless, possession of IP addresses doesn’t change all that much. In the early days a company could buy an entire Class A (1.X.X.X) address space comprising 16million+ addresses for their private use. There are still many companies holding large blocks of addresses, and most of those companies are in the US, and they don’t just give up those addresses.
The point being, there’s significant resistance to redistributing addresses once they’ve been allocated. They don’t change hands terribly often (and keep in mind we’re talking about actual internet addresses, not local network addresses that are being dynamically assigned and NATed across router domains).
No, they highlight some problems with IP4: Bad distribution of IP4 ranges and bad usage of those ranges. So the graphs show the US has way too much IP actresses, some under used/unused and some overused. The blog post they are from is pretty clear about this.
These graphs do not give an indication of how many users per country there are. There are in fact statistics on that which expectedly show China and India on top. These however do not take into account that social media use way more popular in the U.S. for now.
The closest stat may be Reddit users by country which seems to indicate that about every 2nd user is from the US. (Not sure if Russian/Chinese bot accounts also count towards these though).
These graphs do not give an indication of how many users per country there are. There are in fact statistics on that which expectedly show China and India on top.
Well sure, but people from those countries are far less likely to be speaking English, which is why I said:
It is entirely rational to assume that an English-speaking person on the Internet is from the US, given no other information.
The prevalence of internet use in countries with primary languages other than English has no bearing on this statement.
The point of using the IP address statistics is to show that the vast majority of websites on the Internet were created in the US for the US market, and that is still true today.
On a side note, the distribution of addresses is unbalanced but it isn’t “bad”. It is a consequence of a system growing over time. Communications infrastructure cannot pop into existence everywhere all at once, and realistically not many people outside the US had any interest in the internet in 1983.
Sorry, are you trying to prove beyond a doubt that you are dishonest and statistics-illiterate?
which is why I said:
It is entirely rational to assume that an English-speaking person on the Internet is from the US, given no other information.
No, you wrote:
**The US has more allocated IPv4 addresses and more users per allocated IPv4 address than any other country, by wide margins **- and IPv6 adoption is not that widespread yet. It is entirely rational to assume that an English-speaking person on the Internet is from the US, given no other information.
So your assumption is based on a gross misinterpretation of the statistics you presented. Your incorrect interpretation of the graphs would put US participation at about 99,99%, which is obviously ridiculous.
Also according to Wikipedia the percentage of English speakers located in the US is lower that 20%. Does this mean that only 1 in 5 users is from the US?
The point of using the IP address statistics is to show that the vast majority of websites on the Internet were created in the US for the US market, and that is still true today.
That’s not at all what these graphs show though.
Also, while I agree that most websites might be US targeted towards the US calling that ‘vast’ is bit of a stretch.
… and realistically not many people outside the US had any interest in the internet in 1983.
I gather you’ve not been around then. Almost none had any interest in “the internet” until the mid 90s - this includes the US. Partly because what you refer to as “the internet” was called WWW back then and started only 1989. People had been very anal about this until about 2005 - I guess you haven’t been around then either.
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Haha. Like anyone lives outside the US
Ahh the United States of America. What a fascinating planet.
