• Stovetop@lemmy.world
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    4 months ago

    I like and admire vegans.

    I probably should be vegan because I am lucky enough to have the economic privilege to support that kind of lifestyle.

    But, as with many other communities centered around lifestyle topics, I would never want to participate in a vegan community. Lifestyle communities always become insular and echo-chambery, so you become a pariah if you don’t properly adhere to 100% of the community consensus behaviors.

    Not just vegans, but you see it happen with fitness communities, diy/home decor, a lot of hobbies, etc.

      • Stovetop@lemmy.world
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        4 months ago

        Let me know if you find any favorites, I am down for anything easy and quick if they’re out there (as long as it’s not more rice and beans).

    • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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      4 months ago

      Abstaining from animal murder and torture is admirable and something I should do OTOH some internet commenters are mean about it

      I wonder why they would be mean…

        • cheddar@programming.dev
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          4 months ago

          That’s not the goal. They attack people because that makes them feel better. Animals? Who cares. Definitely not them.

        • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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          4 months ago

          If your belief lives or dies because of some internet comment it won’t last anyway.

          Edit: as in, what sustains it is the actual moral implications of a non-vegan lifestyle. I was convinced to go vegan by internet comments like this.

          • prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works
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            4 months ago

            See here’s what’s really really funny, people over and over again say “man if the vegan people who were trying to convince me could just not be gigantic assholes about it then maybe it would be easier to join their community”

            And then you come along and are a gigantic asshole about it and prove the entire point.

            Super solid representation, 5/7, perfection.

            • mods_mum@lemmy.today
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              4 months ago

              Having a reasonable discussion with these people is like trying to play a game of chess with a pigeon. They’ll topple all the pieces, shit on the board and claim victory.

              • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                4 months ago

                Gonna copy large chunks of my last comment because no ones there to stop me.

                This isn’t a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. Not supporting slavery and murder should be the norm, not something that needs to be argued for at length. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can’t accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won’t accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their newborn. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren’t interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. It’s a horrific injustice and we will talk about it as such. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.

                  • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                    4 months ago

                    Here is another one: That meat on your plate comes from an animal that could feel. It had a whole life full of feelings and dreams. It might’ve liked some food but disliked other, it probably had friends, it had a mom and a dad, it was loved. Then they killed it, shipped it, you cooked it and ate it.

            • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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              4 months ago

              If you need people to be nice to you to convince you, you care more about appearances than the argument. If people being rude stops you from acting on something you actually believe in you won’t last a month as a vegan.

              Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

              The first lesson every vegan needs to learn is: there are no rewards and no one will compliment you. You are doing this out of your own conviction and not for anyone else.

              • benignintervention@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                This is precisely the circlejerking mentioned in the meme. Whether true or not, the community presents itself as unwelcoming and self-aggrandizing. These are not traits that easily convince people to listen to the cause.

                • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                  4 months ago

                  There’s nothing to listen to, either you believe animal ag is horrendous and unethical and act on it or you don’t. That’s it. No pretty pleases are going to convince someone they have to give up their beloved steak and cheese for nothing in return.

                  • Aphelion@lemm.ee
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                    4 months ago

                    Right, we get it, but if you tried attracting people to veganism with amazing recipes, and annecdotes of how much healthier you feel, people might come have a conversation and try making some vegan food. Instead these communities drive anyone non-vegan right out the door.

                    What’s the expression? Honey will catch more flies?

              • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                4 months ago

                Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.

                this should be on a billboard.

            • davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
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              4 months ago

              thing is, it’s a philosophy of empathy and compassion. you don’t really join a.commmunity. there are no V cards I’m afraid.

          • ObliviousEnlightenment@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            If belligerent internet comments actually convinced you to change your diet in such an inconvenient manner for no reward but moral superiority, you are not like the people you’re trying to convince. Abusers and cults love bomb because its more effective on a random sample of people

            • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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              4 months ago

              If one believes that the mother losing her newborn cries about it for days and that this is happening on an industrial scale that person will be very indignant about such a horrific injustice. That’s what convinced me, this is a real injustice and not being angry about it would be insincere

        • davepleasebehave@lemmy.world
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          4 months ago

          I was going to stop torturing animals, but some mean vegan said some words that hurt my feelings.

          So now I’m going to eat two burgers!

          chortle!

      • mogoh@lemmy.ml
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        4 months ago

        @Stovetop did not say nor implied that he/she is not vegan, because of the community.

          • Skua@kbin.earth
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            4 months ago

            You can take part in something without taking part in the community about that thing, though. I play guitar a lot, but I don’t frequent any guitar-based communities

              • PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca
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                4 months ago

                Take the L dude.

                Not only is that clearly not the reason in this case, of what you say is true (and I believe it considering your behavior) that’s a pretty damning indictment about your collective personalities.

                Youre blaming OTHERS for leaving your cause because YOU’RE impossible to put up with. Pathetic. The literal definition of that meme where the dude puts the stick into his bike spokes and then cries about it.

                If you hate non-vegans so much then stop talking to them. Simple as.

                • mathemachristian[he]@lemm.ee
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                  4 months ago

                  Im saying if someone stops being vegan because of what people say they dont actually hold the moral conviction that torture, rape and murder of any animal is wrong. I’m not crying about others leavinge “the cause” Im angry at the smugness and how readily people will accept any excuse in order to keep the literal orphan crushing machine going.

                  • Stovetop@lemmy.world
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                    4 months ago

                    I gave being vegan a go but stopped because I couldn’t keep up with it.

                    Working 60-hour weeks makes it hard to meal prep, so I order out a lot, and there aren’t many vegan friendly dining options in my area.

                    I ended up skipping a lot of family gatherings because Cantonese food isn’t all that vegan friendly. The one thing I never wanted to be was “that guy” who needed a special menu when invited to social events, so I thought it was easier to just withdraw. Being very lactose intolerant as a kid did not help in that regard when friends would want to go out for ice cream or eat birthday cake and I’d always feel like “that guy”.

                    At a particularly low point for me, when I was eating the same garden salad for dinner for 2 weeks straight, I ended up having a bit of a breakdown. My therapist said that it is admirable to be vegan, but my behavior at the time was verging on having a martyr complex, and that I should stop punishing myself to make a point.

                    I’m currently a pescatarian, which is the only concession I could make at present to let myself eat my family’s home-cooked meals that are usually made with a fish sauce of some sort. I’d like to try going vegan again at some point when I’m in a better mental space, but it’s something that some of us have to find our way into gradually.

          • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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            4 months ago

            Then you need to go back to school for reading comprehension, because being a vegan and participating in a community about veganism are not the same thing, not even remotely close.

              • Passerby6497@lemmy.world
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                4 months ago

                Only because you’re inferring a lot from a couple comments. You don’t know why they aren’t vegan (which could be for any number of reasons), the only thing you know, and are basing your entire assumptions on, is that they don’t want to hang out in spaces full of insufferable vegans.

    • ngwoo@lemmy.world
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      4 months ago

      so you become a pariah if you don’t properly adhere to 100% of the community consensus behaviors.

      You don’t pocket mulch?!

    • ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml
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      4 months ago

      Just don’t interact with communities you dislike. It’s a pretty bad excuse to blame other people for your decisions.