Apart from the confederate flag itself, this show was pretty much anarchist. They spent every episode humiliating the cops and breaking any unrighteous law they could. The show treated the flag as set dressing.
They also came from a family that canonically resisted the Union during the civil war. And there’s very few black people in the show whatsoever. So.
I know the hate symbol has always been a hate symbol, but if there’s any show where you could say “it was a product of its time” (the 70’s, btw) I think it’s this one.
Sure, and the context of “that time” was yet another Southern Grievance over the checks notes
Civil Rights Act and continued victories against bigotry in the decade leading to Dukes.
Including police officers enforcing laws like desegregation of schools.
Fun Exercise Btw:
Pick a southern county, look up what years the private schools in the area were founded.
There’s a whole episode of The Cleveland Show (as in Cleveland Brown, the black character from Family Guy) where Cleveland gets upset at his neighbor friend for flying a Confederate flag on his house and finally tries to get rid of it. When he fails, he confronts the hick neighbor and calls him a racist. The neighbor doesn’t understand why Cleveland is upset and when Cleveland points to the flag the neighbor says, “What, my Dukes of Hazard flag?”
Cleveland immediately realizes he approached the problem from the completely wrong angle and drops the matter indefinitely. They continue to be friends.
Plus the black people that do appear in the show are always equals to the Hazard Boys. They never depict the Hazard Boys being anything but accepting of everyone except Boss Hog and his law dawgs.
And they were always wary of going into the next country because their sheriff actually had his shit together and would bring the pain to the Duke boys. That sheriff happens to be black.
Right? If anything, they’re mocking the southern, rich, white, fat cat, stereotype.
I was never into it or pretty much anything country-related, being an Airwolf, Mission Impossible (the reboot), and MacGuyver kinda kid, but Dad liked it, and explained it to me pretty much the way you did.
I was like 3 when airwolf went off the air, but the theme song still pops into my head occasionally. That show was awesome.
Just for you, what is easily the best cover of this theme.
Excellent, thank you! I might have to look into where that is streaming
Until the show was banned from flying the helicopter and had to use recycled footage.
“Someday, the mountain might get’ em, but the law never will.”
100% agreed.
Back in those times, people didn’t really knew what it meant, so it got used as a “regular rebel flag”, then white supremacists claimed they just flying it for “heritage” and “rebel” reasons…
The Friday night lineup in those days was Dukes, followed by The Love Boat, followed by Fantasy Island. I didn’t know it was racist. I thought it was a sort of Robbin Hood story with cool car jumps and a corrupt Sheriff of Nottinghazzard.
That’s because that’s all it was.
The racist shit was just a lilly for the southern broadcasters to hang their hat on.
I saw a couple episodes when I was a very small child and I don’t remember anything racist. They were just like running from the cops and solving crimes sometimes right?
It had the southern pride propaganda of the car being named after a confederate general and the flag plus the whole rebellious thing
But yeah, it was basically Robin Hood set in the south and the characters themselves were not written to be racists.
Pretty much. The only ‘racist’ bit was having the confederate flag on the roof.
And calling it General Lee.
That too. It was basically coded racist, but wasnt. Like the opposite of a crypto-fascist or something.
Yep. I made a comment this morning about how not everyone who flies the stars and bars really understands why it’s a hateful symbol with this show as one of the points (there are others I won’t go through). Someone else pointed out that the neighboring Sheriff Little was black and was shown to be a way more competent character (not a good guy, but not a dumb , racist stereotype either) than Roscoe P. Coletrane or Jefferson Davis Hogg. The show literally made fun of the guy who was named for the president of the Confederacy.
That flag should never have been used for the good guys but they were “rebels”. Showing it was supposed to cement that into the people’s minds. It was stupid and short sighted. It also worked to make people feel like if they identified as a good guy rebel they could proudly display that flag.
I’m pretty sure that there was at least one episode with a “bad guy” that was black, but I don’t think race had anything to do with it. There weren’t too many positive race stories from that show though.
That doesn’t make the show racist.
I watched it a bit growing up and never got racist vibes from it either. The Confederate flag just meant “the south” to me back then. I knew a lot of people with them on various knick knacks and articles of clothing that I never witnessed being racist either. I don’t think people put so much thought into it back then.
These days though, yeah if you’re still flying that flag you’re probably an asshole.
On the flip side, it was just kind-a ok to be racist at that time. I can remember serious discussion on whether a black man could be smart enough to play quarterback in the NFL.
The Confederate flag just meant “the south” to me back then.
Growing up around the same time, this was how I interpreted it as well. I didn’t give a shit about the flag, but I never got the racist connotation from anyone around me at the time. It was just something that Southern people liked, just as you said.
Southern people just like symbols of slavery. What’s wrong with celebrating symbols of slavery? It’s how I was raised. I don’t need to consider how descendants of slaves feel about seeing the battle flag of slavers celebrated. People who murdered hundreds of thousands of people so they could continue owning black people just used it as a symbol of institutional hate, what’s so wrong with that?
Well ill give ya credit you thought about what it historically represents, but you are still missing the reason why it was/is so prominent. Southerners are ignorant as shit, I mean this is the most neutral why possible. They got fucked over by the old southern aristocracy and are still being fucked over just now its the new oligarchy. For someone to right a wrong they must be aware that a wrong needs to be righted, and frankly speaking most southerners are ill equipped for such a task.
Also I really hope ya dont go round making accusations like that, bring attention to the problem gently. The worst theyll do is not listen, but if ya go in looking for a fight they are guaranteed not to listen. I made such a mistake with my kin out in Little Rock.
I got into a heated argument (preschool) about whether the car jumped or flew. My dumbass neighbors (my age and younger) contended that it flew. Their mother backed them up. I bet they turned out really fucked up with a parent who was willing to lie to them and distort reality rather than hit them with a dose of reality. I was super mad about it. And now look at me: I’m an atheist who believes in Leftwing politics, so I’d say that on the spectrum from reality to fucked, I turned out pretty ok. Hate to think how they must see the world today.
fly
to move through the air using wings. to be carried through the air by the wind or any other force or agency:“Any other force or agency” such as a car’s momentum
jump
to spring clear of the ground or other support by a sudden muscular effort; leap:“muscular effort” cars don’t make muscular effort.
Looks like flew was technically more accurate
Flew off a cliff and flew into the sky have very different connotations.
They may have been referring to the cartoon. The car in the cartoon did some ridiculous shit, such as tires that inflated like balloons and made the car extra bouncy.
I’d say that there was often time some OTHER antagonist, making it “cool guys jump car so that bungling sheriff catches actual bad guys”.
Not in the United States, on Fridays it was Dukes Of Hazard then Incredible Hulk on CBS, while Love Boat and Fantasy Island was Saturdays on ABC.
No I had no idea either, I’m Canadian and we didn’t really learn American history. It was just a show to me, but learning what I know as an adult, I’m gobsmacked this existed.
Yeah I think I saw one maybe one and bits of another episode. I knew of it though but I’m in Europe and didn’t even know what the flag meant. Different times I suppose.
When I was a kid the show turned me off at first because the characters accents. Every adult in real life around me that had a country accent was an asshole that was mean to me for no reason.
That’s why I can’t watch Letterkenny. I could get the same experience any Tuesday night at the Legion around here.
Were there ever any non-white people on the show they could have been racist towards?
This site counted and “The conclusion was that with 19 black characters over seven seasons, Dukes of Hazzard had a higher black-character-to-episode ratio than Seinfeld or Friends.”
That makes sense, it’s not like NYC is very diverse or anything.
Yes, and they were always treated as equals. It was rare for them to be on the show though.
Just imagined it or don’t understand it. There’s zero incest in the show, and zero hate crimes. Other than the flag and name of the car, there’s nothing racist about it at all, and that flag wasn’t perceived as a racist symbol back then, as illogical as that may seem. When black people do appear in the show, which admittedly is rare, they’re always equals to the Duke boys. The show is just good fun. If there’s any theme to it at all, it’s that it’s cool to make money with moonshine, and flaunt the law, while making fools of law enforcement.
To add, the bad guy is a rich guy trying to exploit people for profit or to get revenge for those that have wronged him.
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I definitely support that we’ve pushed this show out of the forefront, but this is where a lot of the arguments for the flag as a ‘symbol of southern pride’ come from. It’s a weird argument, and it is definitely not a fair one, but there’s very fond associations in the south with that car even from people who had no clue where the flag came from. Super successful attempt to help the confederate flag be seen as acceptable, whether on purpose or not.
It’s a weird show too for someone who isn’t from the south… Racial diversity is non-existent in the show, but that’s also pretty accurate for its location… It had some awesome car scenes, but no depth. The only hot take in the show beyond the flag painted on top (which wasn’t even a hot take then) was that the government was widely seen as corrupt and it was more than a bit sexist.
Yeah, hell, Sheriff Little, the black sheriff from the neighboring county was actually pretty competent. Yeah, it was mostly white, but the black people were always smarter than Roscoe or Boss Hogg.
I dont think op ever watched the show.
I really liked how the more recent Movie Adaptation handled Race on the show. The Dukes crashed the General Lee in da hood (I realize this requires a lot of suspension of disbelief already) and a bunch of dark skinned folks start coming out of their homes and seeing the car and grabbing irons and walking towards them so the Dukes brothers run away on foot. And then one of the black guys rolls a spare tire into frame and says “Where are they going? We’re here to help.”
EDIT: I appear to have merged my memories of the 2005 film with the 2008 Harold and Kumar film. Did Johny Knoxville actually ride a safe in the Dukes of Hazzard or was that Harold, too?
OP definitely did watch the show and it’s accurate.
So how was it a hate crime car? What hate crimes did they commit?
Also incest? Where the fuck did that come from? What are you, a fujoshi, shipping daisy and luke? Luisy?
Oh boy.
Non-Yank here. Enjoyed and still do TDOH. Names like “General Lee” and “Jefferson Davis Hogg” are meaningless to me, except as they appeared in the show, and the car could equally have been called Lieutenant Bob or Sergeant Pete. The flag on top of the car was just a fancy design.
If at all possible could you consider this an educational NSQ? Please?
So aside from the use of those symbols and specific names, where exactly - with reference to timestamps and episode numbers - are the racism and incest?
Are you assuming that just because Bo and Luke were frequently within 100 yards of Daisy that they must automatically be shagging her off camera? In which case it’s a gay show too because for exactly the same reason Bo and Luke must be shagging each other.
And I have no idea why you think it’s loaded with hate crimes. Please refer to a specific instance so that I can understand.
General Lee - Robert E Lee, general of the Army of Northern Virginia, the main army for the Confederate States of America.
Jefferson Davis - president of the Confederate States of America.
The Flag - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America#First_flag?wprov=sfla1
The whole war was about slavery. The Confederate states wanted to have slaves. When Abraham Lincoln was elected in 1860, they threw a tantrum, claimed the election wasn’t legitimate (sound familiar?), then seceded and tried to form an independent nation.
Anyone who says that it was about states’ rights is being disingenuous. The Confederate Constitution mentions slavery and includes regulations for it.
The Confederacy also wanted to deport all Jews (except for one - the Secretary of The Treasury) and eventually conquer Mexico and use them as slaves as well. The brown ones.
The Confederacy also would have enslaved any Native Americans remaining in those states.
The vast majority of southern soldiers were too poor to ever own a slave and were treated only slightly better than slaves. It was very obviously the white supremacist elitist class exploiting everyone else.
The Republican party regurgitates a lot of the Confederate talking points.
Anyone who says that it was about states’ rights is being disingenuous.
Oh, it was about states’ rights. Mostly one right in particular that they reasonably feared was going to be taken from them by federal action, specifically the right to own other people as property. So not a particularly **good ** right to be the one you draw the line at.
It’s probably not a coincidence that the federal government expanded it’s powers a lot more and a lot more quickly after the Civil War than before, though.
What about the incest?
It’s not accurate though, just because it takes place in the south does not equal incest, that’s silly and ignorant as hell. And hate crimes didn’t take place in the show, the nature of the paint job was non-existent in the show.
I assumed Bo and Luke were banging on the sly. If The General is a-rockin, don’t come a-knockin.
I remember a parody song of the theme with the lyric “Luke wants to push it in more than Bo will allow.”
Brb, going back to 2009 and sailing a new ship on tumblr. Gonna be bigger than Zutara!
Now the question, Luiasy or Dake?
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Accurate, like rural Georgia looks like the hills of Southern California.
Surprisingly, when blacks were shown they were treated very well and as equals by the dukes. It almost had anti-racist undertones outside of the General Lee if watched closely.
Also, the actor who played Boss Hogg had been in Army Intelligence during the Korean war, and spoke about 12 languages.
The flag was on the top of the car, not the hood, but yeah.
Technically correct is the best kind of correct, updated, good catch my friend.
Sure, I also bought the idea that it was southern pride and I also bought there was no racism because I lived in a place without diversity. Then i grew up and went to high school
As a non American, the confederate flag on the roof always seemed strange to me, to put it lightly
The name of the car leaves little room for interpretation.
They really should have gone that last extra mile and painted flames on it and called it the General Sherman.
That just doesn’t look as cool for some reason. I guess because the crush orange is a pretty great color for a car, and also because the American flag isn’t symmetrical enough.
Maybe go with a Ford muscle car with the Ford blue. Can’t help on the asymmetrical flag, though.
What’s the name of the car?
Edit: Nevermind. Looked at the picture again and I’m guessing it’s called General Lee.
Correct!
True, and yet, at the same time: The show’s main antagonist was named Jefferson Davis Hogg. There’s no way the choice of a Confederate General for the car (the show’s non-human protagonist) and the Confederate President for the antagonist was an accident, I just have no idea what they were trying to say there.
It means absolutely nothing to non seppos mate
What is a seppo?
aussie slang for american. seppo = septic tank = yank
edit: https://www.dictionary.com/browse/seppo
Seppo is a mildly derogatory Australian slang term for an American, shortened from septic tank.
Fucken great slang for us honestly. I’m not even mad with the sewage we spew all over the world.
right? I like it for us. its accurate and it’s fun to say.
As a Yank, I have to say I find ‘seppo’ highly entertaining, and at least somewhat accurate for many of my countrymen. A lot of your slang is funny as all get out, and some of your music is pretty good too.
Are we “seppos” because we are septic tanks, or are we supposedly inclined to have septic tanks?
Because I’ll lightly disagree with one of those, only because most people I’ve met and places I’ve lived have used public sewage systems.
Edit: nevermind, read further on the definition page. It’s a rhyming thing (kind of?) and we’re full of shit. I’m on board with that.
That seems a lot more than “mildly” derogatory.
Funny, since I’m not a seppo. I just had a high school education in eastern europe.
I was too young back then.
In hindsight, this show was a terrible idea.
Glorification of the Confederates and the protagonists called “the good old boys” would be instantaneously shut down and called out today for the racist white supremacist idea that it is.
racist white supremacist idea
Oh FFS, if you were young then you also remember All in the Family and The Jeffersons, shows that were in-your-face anti-racist. Prime time was hardly in a mood for racist bullshit.
What if I said the show was racist because it showed white, country people as wide-eyed, stupid hicks? How ridiculous does that sound?
A good point. “All in the Family” was based on a British show called “Till Death Us Do Part”. That show featured a main character called Alf Garnett who was very racist and sexist. He was intended to mock the reactionary working class conservatives of the time but people dismissed the show as being in favour of the things that the character came out with because they couldn’t understand the satire.
He’s called Archie Bunker in the States and a lot of older Americans (Boomers and Xers mostly) love him because he shares their views. They don’t get that that’s a bad thing and he’s shown to be wrong and backward on the show.
The same type of people that thought The Colbert Show was serious.
I may be giving too much but I think some writers tried to steer public opinion lessen hatred using characters like Archie as a tool. If you pay attention over the course of the series while he never becomes good a lot of the hate lessened and he’ll admit people or things he hated were ok.
I.e. the racists become emotionally attached to him, so when Archie “learns” they will. (In theory)
I do think that was the intent. All in the Family was progressive show for the time.
‘redneck dumbass’ isn’t a race, though.
What if I said the show was racist because it showed white, country people as wide-eyed, stupid hicks? How ridiculous does that sound?
Pretty ridiculous, considering you’d be comparing making classist jokes with the glorification of a nation founded to maintain the enslavement of black people.
In the 70s in the south people knew what that flag meant, just like they know what it means now.
Except that they are now seen as affirmation of the racism nowadays. They miss the point entirely.
racist because it showed white, country people as wide-eyed, stupid hicks?
As opposed to the white country heroes of the show who were always the most clever, compassionate, capable, ethical? I’d say that’s a bad take
The shows antagonists were a wealthy business man turned politician who wielded the corrupt police force to feed his own power and oppress the common folk. And while his nickname was Boss Hogg, the villain’s canon name was Jefferson Davis Hogg. Pretty literally calling the cops confederate pigs.
Definitely a lot of problematic elements to the show, but there’s some good there too. And I’m sure it influenced a ton of car action sequences for decades.
Yes the show itself outside some very visible totems like the car unfortunately, didn’t really touch on issues of bigotry and racism. Had it just been about a back woods moonshining family in an unmarked car harassing the corrupt governor and police. There wouldn’t be a lot of uproar. Hell it might be embraced.
To be fair, virtually everything more than 20 years old is some flavor of “problematic” today.
Not really. Those that aren’t are still appreciated today still. Like the Golden Girls or Fresh Prince.
Like the Golden Girls or Fresh Prince.
You know an episode of Golden Girls was pulled from Hulu for blackface right? Or the jokes about Dorothy’s rape (there are several of those)?
Or “Wham, Bam, Thank You Mammy” , Maurgerite in general or having the same actor play different characters with different ethnicities that are broadly the same general color (for example Mr. Tanaka and Dr. Chang played by the same actor so apparently the show can’t tell the difference between Japanese and Chinese people?), racist jokes about Chinese food, things Sophia had to say about Cubans, Puerto Ricans and Arabs, Rose in a Native American headdress, Rose pretending to be an exchange student, Blanche defending the Confederate flag… Yeah, there’s a lot problematic about Golden Girls and a lot of it was about race.
I suspect I could spit out a similar list of examples for Fresh Prince if I dug down on it, though it probably would be less about race and more about sex or disability or weight or sexual orientation or some other demographic line that was a common well for comedy back then that is a problematic -ism or -phobia now.
It’s just a symbol of their heritage. Of white supremacy.
Looks like them racist boys are at it again
I watched this as a kid (it aired in Germany).
It was funny, the stunts were cool and the chick was kinda hot.Kinda?!
To this day many refer to cut denim jean booty shorts as Daisy Dukes.
Not many soon once all the boomers die off
Nobody knows what that means except boomer you can say it all you want
Lol okay boomers from the 90s, got it
Dukes of Hazzard first aired in 1979, but okay buddy
Catherine Bach was a robo-babe.
She may or may not be the reason I find southern American girls hot
Smart man, because they are, although I’m biased because I’m from Alabama
The actress was born in Cleveland, Ohio. So there’s that.
And Bo Duke was from upstate New York.
Their accents are pretty sexy.
SHES A ROBOT?!
A robo babe is someone who is babaliscious. if they were a president they’d be baberaham lincoln
Schwing
Shaaaaa-wing.
If she was a president, she would have been babe-reham lincoln.
We were jazzed about the local-boy-made-good story, since Tom Wopat was born in the little town of Lodi, Wisconsin (“Home of Susie the Duck”), and went to school at UW-Madison. The car could’ve been named anything, as long as it did those awesome jumps.
I wish I was born in a time when people could just enjoy shit.
It seems like mindless TV with action, some good old boys and some eye candy, set in the south.
People make out it is some sort of factually wrong documentary.
It was lovely then. I miss not giving a shit about words.
We gave a shit back then too, they just were different words that we cared about.
People make out it is some sort of factually wrong documentary
Say what you will about stupid people, but I have to tell you this: I’ve had more than a few people tell me they did not wear seat belts because “the Dukes never wore seat belts”
I am not even fucking kidding about this. It’s not just about people today treating this TV show like it was a depiction of reality, it’s about people at the time doing the exact same thing.
As I’ve seen it said many times on Lemmy for many nostalgia moments and am also quite surprised no one said to to you yet (they probably got tired of repeating it…), people yearning for the good old times are the privileged white patriarchy class.
Be ashamed, be very ashamed. Tsk. Tsk.
People are nostalgic the world over, not just in America. So all of the undertones of political issues that you’re layering on here isn’t inherent to the human feeling of nostalgia. Now The Dukes of Hazzard is problematic for a great many reasons as this post highlights. So it’s totally fair to call that out. But it’s also totally fair to remember being a kid and liking a show where guys break the rules with fast cars. It doesn’t mean that he’s a bigot that wants to drag us all back to the '70s.
I say, as long as you’re self aware and this feeling in nostalgia doesn’t push you in the direction of Trump or Andrew Tate, then go for it.
How dare you bring reason and nuance to the conversation? You damn centrist! It’s you and people like you that embolden the right in their shenanigans! Only by not tolerating this intolerant symbolism can we rid ourselves of these fascist cults!
Or so the story goes…
lemmy just hates people who humiliate cops on a daily basis i would guess
Don’t forget the rather unfortunate usage of a bunch of people cruising around in the Confederate car all being named “Duke.”
See, there was once a man named David, who was the leader of a wacky little group of goofballs back in the '70s. That li’l jokester even went so far as to get everyone to call him a grand wizard, which is such a zany thing to ask people to do, but people totally did it with a straight face
Anyway, I wonder if it’s a coincidence. Who knows?
He was leader in 1989. The first episode was in 1979, a decade earlier.
Wikipedia seems to disagree. I believe you may be thinking of when he took political office, not when he started as Grand Wizard of the Idiot Brigade.
Probably more likely the name is a reference to Civil War Confederate General Basil Duke. Or perhaps the name merely is meant to invoke the idea of the Dukes as important, “noble” figures in Hazzard County, or at least more noble than the corrupt Boss Hogg. Or maybe a cigar is just a cigar in this case.
Good theories. Honestly, I don’t totally think it is in reference to the Klan dude, but it sure is an unfortunate coincidence
He wasn’t a big name here in the Midwest, at least, until he gained national prominence by winning a seat in the Louisiana legislature in '89, thus becoming the face of the pit of foul putrescence at the heart of the GOP. (Anybody who thinks that Republicans turned batshit-evil in 2016 was at least 27 years late.)
European checking in: whats the name of the series?
Dukes of Hazzard.
“Inspired” by / re-done from the B-movie film “Moonrunners”
Starring the legendary James Mitchum! Probably because Mitchum also starred in Thunder Road, which is the grandaddy of all “bootleggers in a fast car” movies, and which was originally written with Elvis Presley in mind for the lead role.
TIL
In addition, those shorts are still called daisy dukes (at least by my generation) in honor of Daisy there, laying on the flag.
I still call em Daisy Dukes, though I had no clue where that term came from so thank you
I didn’t realize until my late teens (mid-00s) where the term came from. Still call them that to this day. Never cared to find out if they have a proper term.
Blue jean panties is the proper term.
The Dukes of Hazard
Man… gotta say, I’m really glad I got to enjoy these old skool shows.
Pssst… I’m Latino, this show didn’t offend me then and it doesn’t offend me now.
Ummm thighs
Oh, so this wasn’t a wholesome series about a cute couple that wanted to destroy every car that has racist symbols painted on the roof? Bcs they were really good at it. And destroying the cars as well.
Loved it. I had the curtains/drapes set. We didn’t know about the connection as kids.
Conservatives are known for repurposing symbols to fit their narrative. So, let’s take the Confederate battle flag and repurpose it into an Anarchist symbol.
General Lee is just a badass name for a car to drive fast around while you run your moonshine because fuck the police.
Um…no? It was called The Dukes of Hazzard, you’re way off
No, pretty sure it was “Incest Cousins and Their Hate Crime Car.”
