I do real estate photography, and I’ve been in a number of newly built homes, and every single one of them had a 50 amp plug for an EV charger in the garage. To me, that says way more than any poll or whatever does.
I don’t own a car but rent for special occasions. Recently got a petrol car after driving EVs for years, the experience is truly horrific in comparison. Driving EVs is a lot of fun
A couple, longtime friends of mine, retired one of their 2 diesels for an EV last year. They have a charger at home, and just this week ordered a replacement for the 2nd diesel. They’ve ordered a Corolla Hybrid. Not PHEV, plain Hybrid. I can’t fathom why. I understand they may want to have a bit of ICE power there for hedging or whatever, but no plugin? They are in the process of building a new house, and it will have solar. I just don’t get it. I live in a flat, and don’t have convenient charging. I’m considering getting a new car (but not retiring my Skoda Octavia 1st gen, 480.000Km with 0 engine repairs except consummables, 3 years away from classic status), and my first choice right now is the KIA EV VAN. Convenient charging is my only problem right now.
I would never go back to ICE. But I do miss driving a car with a clutch sometimes.
Same. I love my EV as a commuter machine but I do miss having a more engaging car. If I can ever afford it I’d love to have a little weekend car like a Miata in addition to an EV that I drive 90% of the time.
Also same. I can even afford an older used Miata if I squint. But man, where would I put the thing? We’ve fortunate enough to have two cars, but storing a third would be very awkward. The current EV charger location means my car must be parked in the garage. My wife will not be bumped out and shuffling cars seems like a massive PITA.
I also live in SE MI and our roads are firmly grid oriented. I moved here daily driving a 96 Miata and got very little joy out of driving it here.
I don’t have a garage so any car I own would be living outside, right along with my EV and its charger. But it sounds like you wouldn’t get any joy out of having a sports car so I think the best solution for you is to just not.
180,000 MILES on my EV! Best purchase I’ve ever made. The amount of money saved on maintenance and fuel (got free charging at work and now a neighborhood hub has a free charger). Love it!!
As an owner of a hybrid I want to go full electric
If I could do wall power I could potentially run a cord from my back deck to my parking spot, if I’m allowed and if it would reach. I’d have to figure out how to prevent it from being a tripping hazard but that’s minimal
I don’t think I’d suffer range anxiety and some of the newer evs are sooo nice
should be doable, the cable on our charger is like 14’ long and I kinda wish it wasn’t SO long lol because we park snugged up to the garage, it’s always way more slack than needed.
iirc the brand is emporia, they’re a common charger w/ bluetooth connectivity so you can see how much you’re paying / how fast it’s charging etc., complete with detailed metrics every month.
my only wish is that I could ev-ize my old honda element.
I’ve tried them, and I despise touch screen controls. I don’t want to go through menus to change settings.
This is a problem for newer gas vehicles also, the newest car I drive is a 2024 and I hate it. Constant beeping, changing settings reverts with an update, and so on.
If they make an electric car with analog controls and door handles, I’m in. But until then, my favorite vehicle is a 2008 ride with working buttons that don’t reset.
My EV has buttons for most stuff, and the rest of it I can use the screen, or just tell the car to do stuff
I’m lucky enough to live in a civilised country, so I have a BYD that yanks cannot yet buy
If they make an electric car with analog controls and door handles, I’m in.
That’s been part of the pitch for the Slate
I’ve owned an EV for a while now, and it has been a great car, but I share the same complaints. Almost every car these days, regardless if it’s EV or ICE, is an over-engineered data-harvester.
I’m excited for the new Slate trucks. They’ll have physical buttons, roll down windows, real door handles, and no infotainment system that tracks you and sells your data. They won’t be perfect, but it’s a lot closer to what I actually want in a vehicle.
Yeah, that’s where I’m at, too. Though I’m caught between intending to drive my current car (2013) into the ground or trying to get something a bit newer (like 2018 or even newer) where I can find a pre-enshitification model to push off the “car dies and I have no choice” date.
Modern cars have more options than ever, no analog control can cover them all. That’s why menus are needed. That said, some newer cars do have analog controls too, combustion and EVs.
2017 BMW i3, original version. Can’t do shit, I upgraded with Android Auto and a rear camera. Just… the doors… But otherwise I love it.
A lot of EV people forget that most of us don’t have $20,000 for a car, let alone a used one. The cheapest EV’s as of today around me are $19,000 and have between 80k-120k miles on them. I bought my 2007 car for $5,500 11 years ago and i’ve put roughly $2200 in repairs into it, $1700 of that was for a complete suspension rebuild, so it would be much lower. My last car i had for 9 years, i put maybe $300 in repairs on it, and that was just brakes and fluids.
So i personally wont be amazed by an EV that has less maintenance, i would love to have the ability to charge/fuel up at home, and not wait at gas stations, that would be an awesome thing.
Once one of my ICE vehicles costs too much to repair, i hope EV’s are more in the $10-15k range with lower miles. At that point the lack of gas would help offset the large investment up front. And yes, i know $15k is not considered a large investment for most EV drivers, but for those of us who don’t make more than $20 an hour, it’s a HUGE investment.
Dont forget your cost per mile of maintenance. ICE aint cheap to roll around forever. Emissions and tires/brakes will get ya. Idk, thought I had more substance when I started typing
I love the idea of EVs, drove one for awhile, but as a note, tires do wear out faster on EVs because they are heavier.
But yes gas is more expensive in most areas, and EVs save on brakes with regen.
nd EVs save on brakes with regen.
and oil changes, and transmission fluid, and alternator rebuilds… the complexity of ICE vehicles alone will be their downfall.
All true.
Still too expensive for your average Joe, unfortunately.
Even with all the extra costs, I can still get an older ice car cheaper. I just bought an 07 Honda Fit for $1300, plus a few hundred for some suspension work I did myself. The thing runs like a champ, and I’m averaging 42.5mpg.
I wish I could have an EV, but it’s just not cost effective yet. I plan to put another 100k on this Honda before reconsidering the market.
nice, keep adding to the problem killing the planet.
Near me there are multiple Chevy Bolts selling for around $10k.
No, EV people don’t forget, but the nature of posting publicly is that some readers are closer to the fence than others. You’re the only who knows how close you are to that fence.
How much money do you reckon you spent on gas in the last 11 years?
$25 per week over 11 years works out to be $14,300.
You’re absolutely right about the long run. The problem is the up-front costs. The proletariat is living off of the Epstein class’s table scraps.
Ya got a point, but it would need to be offset by charging costs.
Yeah, but I should also offset the $5,500 by 11 years of (higher than normal) inflation, and also get more accurate numbers for the amount of money spent on gas ($25 seems a little low, doesn’t it?).
I think it’s fair to say that a used EV has a lower TCO than a used ICE car.
Sure there’s more upfront cost and we have to consider the boots theory but if you can afford to buy a used EV, it’s safe to say that it’s cheaper in the long run.
I mean… a full charge costs me like $11 ish? Tesla stats tell me I drove 8300 miles last year And the total cost to me to charge was about $650.
If you can trust their calculator it says gas cost for a comparable car in my state was about $1350 for the same mileage, so $700 savings.
My last car was an 04 I bought 7 years ago for 3k and put like 120-140k miles on. Did all the maintenance myself.
It’s at 300k now and getting cranky and unreliable. But it owes me nothing. On top of that, my commute increased, and with gas prices being high, the 20-25mpg ain’t cutting it.
I just found a beautiful deal, an 07, 190k miles, but only $1300. Right now I’m averaging 42.5mpg over several hundred miles of driving. It needed a few hundred dollars of suspension work, but I did it myself. This is the way.
I want an EV more than anything. I can change at home but not work. Though there are free chargers downtown I could use on the weekends and evenings. But the used prices are still too high for someone like me.
I had a Volt for a couple years, loved it. Got it dirt cheap, it was broken. I fixed it. It got totalled one winter, a real shame. Can’t afford to replace it.
Prices need to come WAY down before it’s feasible for your average person. Even us who fix are own cars can’t afford it, and we save tons!
I didn’t have the upfront cost of my car, really never have in my entire life - always got a car loan.
have you been paying cash for cars this whole time?
The cheapest EV where I live costs about 30x more than the cheapest ICE car, and about 5x more than the average ICE car.
At the same time, it has half (or not even that) the range and most of the controls inside the touchscreen.
Almost everybody lives in apartments. No chargers in the underground garages or near outside parking spaces. I only know of 4 EV chargers in a radius of 2km around my home, and I live in my country’s capital.
I think I’ll stick to public transport and cycling. EVs are not the answer to any problem. All that work just to have marginally less ecologically destructive vehicles.
To me it just looks like smoking vs vaping. Improvement? I guess. Worth investing insane amounts of resources into? Yeah, probably not.
“30x more than the cheapest ICE car, and about 5x more than the average ICE car” - If you want anyone to take you seriously, you’ll have to post models and prices.
They are Polish probably, because their username translates to “asstitties”
Looks like new cheap EV can be 100k in the local currency, ICE beaters can be like 3k. So the cursory numbers at a glance check out.
Well that’s comparing apples with oranges then.
I can get a used Leaf or Zoe for £1600, and a new petrol Range Rover is over £100,000 so clearly EVs are more cost effective.
There are no used beater EVs in Poland
https://en.guazi.com/blog/insight/used-electric-cars-poland.html
Asstitties is completely correct about their analysis of the Polish used car market. They are nowhere near the tipping point of when it will make financial sense to purchase one.
I’m in Canada and the cheapest EV is less than 50k new, the cheapest new ice is 25-30k. It’s definitely worth it, I’m in Toronto and level 2-3 chargers are plentiful, there will be less/different per km costs.
Yeah, you Canucks have been getting screwed by the Yanks on this subject long before Trump took the mask off. I’m sorry you live next to a bully. Hopefully Carney will improve things.
However that doesn’t mean you can extrapolate North American experience to Europe, they’re utterly different markets that have had the phase out of ICE written into law for years and have been actively pursuing it.
I’m sorry but your personal experience isn’t relevant to a
CanadianPolish exampleEdit to correct, left error with strike through 'cos its funny (yes canadian experience is relevant to canada of course lol)
Poland seems a lot different than here.
There’s a ton of stock on very low cost older EVs here, I’d have an easy time finding something used that would work for me. I probably should have looking at some of these listings…
AI slop article with all the usual AI slop logic issues.
A subset of the issues because I don’t have the time or the interest to poke every hole.
-
It doesn’t address the initial apples to oranges / beater to brand new ridiculous comparison because it only considers prices of recently new BYD and Tesla (2024). Comparing a 15 year old car to a new car on price whether they are EV or ICE is just stupid
-
Your own AI slop link admits you can get older imports in from the rest of EU - usually Germany because of proximity and wealth. Something that used to be extremely common only a few decades ago and is only recently reducing most probably due to the increase in Poland’s wealth. So saying older EV beaters are unavailable is straight up untrue.
-
The focus on battery health is both one-sided and ill-informed. Plenty of older ICE cars have massive costly issues - ask AUDI owners about timing belts and what that does to an ICE when they (very expensively) break. Furthermore you can easily check the health of a battery in almost all EVs - so no surprises on the motorway at 120km/hr when it goes bang and stops. You buy something that you know the state of (or dont buy it).
-
The focus on battery health is also wildly overcooked - battery issues almost always surface quickly (as they are usually build faults), and get fixed/replaced under warranty. Plenty of studies show that most EV batteries will last 150-300,000 miles/200-400,000 Km (links below) - longer than the expected life of most cars (average about 125,000 miles / 200,000Km before they are scrapped)
-
The REAL issue with comparing an EV beater with an ICE beater is that EVs have progress at a lightning fast rate over the last 20 years - early EVs like the leaf against a recent EV is like a model T against a Lamborghini. Whereas ICE changes in the last 20 are pretty small. A leaf has a shitty tiny battery compared to what you can get now - it is very definitely worth buying as new as possible, particularly given the mileage and hence the number of years you can reasonably expect to get
https://voltchek.app/blog/ev-battery-degradation-statistics
If you like I can generate an AI slop article to match yours and pull apart all the holes one by one - the problem with them always is you have to do multiple iterations before they stop saying “good input, I didn’t dig into that, let me have a look” (actually that’s not quite the wording Claude uses - hmm I instantly recognise it when I see it but can’t yet play it back - oh well you get the gist)
The link was just an example man. I don’t speak Polish I didn’t look up any sources in Polish.
https://plc.auction/auction/from-pl/fuel-gasoline
https://plc.auction/auction/from-pl/fuel-electric
I see a ton of listings for sub 10k for ice, very few in that range for EVs.
I’m trying to say asstitties has a credible perspective.
It’s only credible because you’re taking a broken logic point and moving forward.
The broken logic is the comparison of a beater with brand new and an assertion that EV beaters are unavailable.
Your second link doesn’t prove anything either way
First problem is I can’t filter by price unless I’m registered, so I’m interested as to how you did so. Secondly the first link you provided states that the majority of beaters are sold on car lots not via auction (where you’ll generally find the more expensive cars and if I’m not mistaken -edit missing words - that’s exactly what you find on your second link). This link, in its own words is to facilitate the direct purchase of international cars from places like South Korea and the US, people aren’t paying £3000 shipping to bring in a £1000 car. The same as grey market imports in the UK are always rare stuff you can’t get locally.
You don’t speak Polish, OK. You’re Canadian, you have to have at least cursory french (it’s mandatory right ?) do a search in Belgium and France for EVs under €3000 - that will give you a pretty solid proxy for what is available in Poland - for decades second hand cars went East to the former Warsaw Pact countries. That flow has slowed into Poland as Poles are much richer on average now, but it still exists and hence beater prices are fairly levelled across the EU bloc due to relatively free flow of goods (there are barriers but they aren’t too bad)
(Scroll down the page it’s at the bottom)
“PLC Auction provides direct access to international auctions of used vehicles (damaged, repaired, and undamaged).”
"One of the main risks when buying a vehicle from abroad is unforeseen expenses. The calculator on the website helps determine the final price of the car at the bidding stage. The calculation takes into account:
The lot price at the auction. Auction fees and platform commission. Delivery cost (logistics to the port and sea transportation). Additional services (depending on the region and client preferences)."
-
To me it just looks like smoking vs vaping.
your stack of strawmen there is huge, but this turd cherry on the shit sundae reveals how silly the entire argument was from the start.
we get it, you don’t like 'em, go suck on a tail pipe and save the rest of us your exhaust
I don’t know who would make the opposite claim. Everything I hear has always been “hardly anyone would go back”.
there’s a population of ICE lovers in this community who chime in every time with ‘ev’s suck’ etc., who I suspect have never actually driven an EV or are being paid to fanboy smog.
My EV is quite possibly the most poorly planned decision of my life.
I live in an apartment and cant charge it overnight. Its a leaf so it only has l2 slow charging and Chademo charging; i live in the US so it doesnt exist – an adapter costs $750 minimum. I charge for 3 hours every week to go a maximum of 70 miles at a time. When its cold out, thats 4 or 5.
I don’t regret it at all, unironically, genuinely.
There’s something to be said for not going to gas stations. Ever.
Yeah, but my version of that is sitting in a dead parking lot for 2 hours to spend $3 on 60 miles with my j1772 connection. I cant wait to have $750 to spend on my stupid computer adapter so i can instead spend 15 minutes at an electric gas station
As an EV owner, I have a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to people’s opinions on EVs here. Many will approach me to genuinely ask about the car, the range anxiety, recharge, etc because they are curious and thinking on getting one.
Then there’s “the others”. People who for some weird reason hate EVs (especially now that gas is over 2€/lt) will approach me to throw hate on them parroting the usual silly remarks about battery degradation, range, lack of “engine sound”… And it’s funny because I never open up a conversation about my EV, you won’t see me trying to forcefully talk about it… so when I tell them that I don’t care if they like EVs or not, they get even more pissed because they just want to shit on them and hope that I get upset or something? Idk, in Italy there’s this kind of people who need to show others how noisy their car is and how manly they are for driving a car that is noisy.
Idk, in Italy there’s this kind of people who need to show others how noisy their car is and how manly they are for driving a car that is noisy.
Oh how I wish that was only an Italian thing
Now you know how vegetarians and vegans feel. Most don’t bring it up (I only bring it up now in this context), but still get pulled into discussions about it.
Remember, you don’t need to engage. You get pulled in because you want to be pulled in.
I’m usually the one who talks the least on the table when it comes up. I’m really not interested discussing my personal choices. Some people really are though.
I find this fascinating because no one has ever said anything about my car. I was actually worried they would before I got an EV, because of stories like this.
But I’ve had the car for six years now and I have only had pleasant interactions about it.
They are extremely common here though, so that might be partly why.
In fact, once I thought an elderly man was going to ask something snarky. He said “hey, can I ask about your car?” and then he very kindly asked about what the brake calipers were, because he literally had no idea. Then he said “it’s a really pretty car” and then I felt mentally bad for doubting the sweet old guy.
Living in the inland northwest US I’ve never had anyone approach me to talk about EVs one way or another. I’ve been driving a Kia Niro EV for a year now. Not even the few times I’ve been into North Idaho.
I don’t think I’d be bothered too much by some EV hater trying to be an ass either though given I’m not the one eating shit at the gas station. Charging from flat to full would cost me $6.40 at home… where I essentially do all my charging at 10¢ / kWh
And it’s funny because I never open up a conversation about my EV, you won’t see me trying to forcefully talk about it
I guess this is a reality similar to that of most vegetarians or vegans…
Was just about to say the same. It’s a great source of unwelcomed conversations alongside queerness and toe shoes.
Oh well toe shoes can go to hell, that makes sense.
Oh no, shoes shaped like feet! Won’t someone think of the children??
As I’ve grown older, I’ve come to realize that many people (too many, IMHO) are not only only somewhat aware* of cultural stereotypes but also seem to willingly, if not proudly adopt them as a vital ingredient to their persona. Like some vibe coders/script kiddies copy-pasting themselves an identity from barely-skimmed “data” they got from a friend of a friend who “totally knows what they’re talking about, bro.” 🙄🤷🏼♂️
*at least, that’s what they’ll tell you, ofc.
Have ya see much difference between Chinese EVs and European ones? I’d like to get me a BYD but it seems very expensive here.
In price? To have a car that had a similar amount of equipment than my atto3, the average difference between the atto and the european brands was around 6-8k euros. And that’s just considering the ADAS (like 360° cam, park sensors, autoswitching beams, etc). If I wanted an euro car with all the other “silly” things like the opening roof, the heated wheeldrive and seats, etc, we were going to almost 10k more expensive.
The U.S. & Canada put a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs. But with the trade war with the USA in full swing hopefully we’ll i state free trade with China.
Canada dropped the tariffs on 50,000 cars. Most of them as Chinese made Teslurs.
For some people the politics or aesthetics of their choice of car outweighs the economics or convenience.
I am not rich enough to be one of those people.
Ah the South European Uncle™, I know him well
I have said it a million times. Whenever I drive a car with an internal combustion engine it feels so incredibly primitive.
Not so much primative, just the peak of an outdated technology, nostalgic in a way, like when you get on a steam train
Loud, too much vibration, slow start up, doesnt even sound like a spaceship
I was so excited for EVs to be quiet. The spaceship noises make me so sad. Like finally, we figured out a way to make a car that didn’t make too much noise, and we legally added in stupid scifi sounds. These neurotypicals ruin everything.
Ive definitely sneaked up on people, even with the added spaceship sound. Its 100% for safety and honestly too quiet.
That being said a lot of hondas have like an angelic hum that I really hate
I think most of that is due to regulation, it is so you can’t sneak up on someone like Andy in his Prius. Early Model 3s don’t even have a speaker to make the sound so they still don’t, a friend of mine has one and it doesn’t make any woowoo noises
Monke brain like vroom vrroom
Jokes aside, car manufacturers figured consumers would miss that feeling enough to install software in EVs to mimic it.
Yamaha went the extra mile and patented a fake engine for electric bikes that moves and moves air just like a real engine, except it generates negative work.
I hate everything about it and everyone who had a hand on it.
It was the smell for me. They all smell like horrible chemicals, I was just blind to it until I spent a few weeks away from one.
Why?
What are people reading online? I have never seen anything about EV drivers going to gas. An EV is not cheap and most people I know stick with them even if terrible.
This seems like bait.
There is a section of the internet that is very loudly anti-EV. I think it’s a MAGA-aligned movement. If you watch a lot of EV-related stuff on YouTube, as I have been doing in recent months, the “quitting EVs” videos will pop up eventually.
I mean I hate how silly and connected EVs are, I can see the hate to a degree (I am also too broke to buy one). But I have not seen people who have already bought one say they dislike it.
Is that an EV problem, or a modern car problem? Modern ICE cars also have massive displays, OTA updates, etc. I’m not sure EVs are much worse.
Oh for sure, I hate EVs due to them being new and shit nothing to do with being electric. I also hate new ICE vehicles for the same reason. I wanted an EV myself but short of making my own so far there is nothing I would ever own (maybe soon?).
I tried a few years ago for example to move to an EV motorcycle but found they don’t make one that is not stupid, I need to ride 250km one way, spend the night and ride back. The route I take has zero service (like zero not just chargers but no gas, food or washrooms) stations for the last 190km so I would need about 300km range for it to work. Thought that would be doable since I don’t need to go the speed of plaid and don’t care about my 0-100km time, but nope, they don’t make any EV bikes like that. They all are direct drive (no gearing) torque monsters built to go so fast your skin will come off. They even make some they claim are for adventures but have 150km range. The ones I looked at all have better city then highway efficiency do to them being geared like toys, They could have made one with a higher gear ratio (since the high rpms seem to require a stupid about of heat management at highway speeds) but noooooo, not one on the market is a real vehicle.
I have been looking into EVs myself recently, but the secondhand market here still prices me out for now. In a way, I am content with that as it means I can enjoy my aging 2005 Forester for longer. I have a feeling I will badly miss the manual transmission and low tech, low distraction feel when I eventually switch over. Anything from around the mid-2010s onwards seems to be when cars started going massively downhill in terms of the cabin experience.
My newest car is a 2002. I have a bunch of old shit since I would rather be fixing and driving 5 shitboxes then deal with one new car. Newest I would go is 2008 (that auto bailout fucked the quality of cars)
Oh and I can’t afford one.
What do you mean about what you read online? Am I going to the wrong places? This stat sounds perfectly reasonable to me, and I don’t even drive one.
