I’ve seen many threads suggesting products but they often don’t mention FOSS projects, which should always be preferred to corporate software. With FOSS you are already boycotting capitalism, on either side. Free and Open Source ignores borders and shouldn’t be categorized in nationalist terms, no matter where some of the maintainers happen to live.
I always like to say the fruits of FOSS labour are the common heritage of mankind. It belongs to all of us as a public good, created and maintained by selfless workers. (Nevermind the fact that most FOSS projects are based out of Europe anyways).
Free software is the antithesis of capitalism. It doesn’t make sense to boycott them.
Is someone doing that? If it’s FOSS it’s from the internet.
FOSS is definitely not boycotting capitalism, but its still an objectively good thing. I see FOSS work as a way for relatively rich imperial core citizens to give back to the world.
Definitely do not boycott FOSS projects.
There are some pretty corporate “open core” software companies tho, that’s a more grey area
I’m the most anti-American user on here and I agree.
I’d rather use USA-linked free software than Spotify.
Wasn’t Spotify Swedish tho? But yeah
I think that’s the point, he’s saying he’d rather use USA-linked FOSS than non-USA proprietary software.
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I would think it depends on the project
Are there US open source projects?
There definitely are FOSS projects run by the US government: Ghidra is an open source reverse engineering tool developed by the NSA.
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I think the majority
I don’t know about that, to be honest.
I don’t have any hard data to back me up, but anecdotally I find that most FOSS software I use is headquartered in Europe. Quite often Germany. There are many maintainers from all over the world, but I feel like (again…in my experience) Europe has always been bigger into starting such projects.
Use common sense. The nation isn’t the only consideration.
I came into this thinking its more like “Oh no open sores is full of communists let me pay for worse software I never own” which is an argument that comes from the same camp as “this software I don’t like is woke”
Agreed.
I get it as an European that it means more to me to consume “locally” and to prioritize services that are European-based. But due to the nature of computers and FOSS, borders are redefined and it is more about ideas and politics rather than physical location. However, computers and servers are also physical and submitted to legislations of countries, we cannot ignore laws such as the Patriot act and the power that the American state can have even on FOSS projects.
For me the priority is to use software that match my needs; if I have the choice between an American and an European solution, I’ll tend to choose the latter one.
I canceled ongoing donations to several projects based in the US and stated that my reasons for doing so was US policy against my country. It doesn’t matter if the dev or project lead supports those policies or not, I refuse to contribute to the US economy if I can at all help it.
I understand, but I am also thinking about the dev of those projects, as an individual who (probably) really despises the current US Gov, and even though they have to engage in the US economy, as they need to eat, pay bills, etc. It is a very tricky problem for those individuals and how to emancipate from. It is like with Russia where such individuals do not endorse at all the ongoing war but still live in that system 🤔
If you are worried about US laws affecting FOSS projects, it can always be forked, perhaps even be rewritten.
Of course, but what about the individual behind it, if it is someone who is also against their current government, while having to live in that country? It is tricky to ask how to reconcile the need for EU solutions while encouraging American citizens to fight against their system!
FOSS devs can do FOSS work only because of the relative luxury conditions of their imperial core countries, which comes at the expense of global south countries.
In other words, they can do that because their countries imperialist relations with the global south, this is the reason that most FOSS projects come from the US and Europe.
In some way FOSS work is a way for these people to give back to the world, i think its fine to donate to these projects regardless of their location.
Agree with the main point, though disagree that FOSS is “boycotting capitalism”, many for-profit companies contribute to FOSS and FOSS can be used by for-profit companies too, much of today’s capitalism runs on FOSS.
The point of free software is that it does not have owners, so what exactly are you “boycotting”?
Tell it to the Russian Linux devs that foss has no owners :-) Theory and practice are 2 different things
They can fork it, if nobody wants to work with them anymore that’s their problem
FOSS doesn’t mean that you are entitled to a place at the table or that your contributions have to be accepted. Nothing prevents these Russian devs from continuing to to work on the kernel.
Seeing people look for corporate social media alternatives is painful.
I agree, but am happy that X is losing users to Bluesky, so I don’t try to convert friends and family from Bluesky to Masrodon. I’d rather they start changing other stuff instead that is easier.
Oh definitely, Bluesky is far better than twitter. Honestly, seeing the fediverse piss itself over bluesky is annoying, because the alternative is people still on twitter.
> “Hey guys, I want to leave X, should I go to Bluesky or Threads? What? Mastodon? Never heard of that. Looks very complicated, I’ll pass”
> – CEO, founder, IT wizz on LinkedInEvery time!
Or the classic “guys I am leaving WhatsApp, moved my whole family to Signal, another centralized US-based silo that requires phone numbers and runs on AWS, CloudFlare, etc.”
we’re not classic, we’re advanced nerds engineers : signal is one church without any interoperability, so we’ve moved to both SIP and XMPP variants using differents provider in the family : everything is decentralized, exactly like email (we dont use gafam ones). It’s not that hard to enjoy xmpp, and really decentralized tools, a bit like for SIP (we have several Voip providers here).
I like SIP and XMPP, but in practice I don’t have any contacts to use it and the apps are lacking a bit compared to ArcaneChat/DeltaChat, besides the problem of losing groups because the XMPP server went down etc. there are some downsides but yes, if I was not satisfied with ArcaneChat I would use XMPP and SIP, or anything that is open source, decentralized and doesn’t require a phone number
Signal: over a decade of leaking nothing and providing a great service for free, with some weird hiccups along the way like cryptocurrency.
Privacy “advocates”: fuck signal
- if they leaked something you wouldn’t know because US government law doesn’t allow them to disclose if they requested data.
- uses AWS servers that also the gov could ask for access to Amazon directly without even talking to Signal, being centralized and depending on AWS infra is also a weakness.
- needing phone numbers to register, often tied to passport and it is super easy to get your whole network when compromising 1 device
- all centralized services start nice, attracting users, once they have you, and money starts being a problem… meet: enshitification
i mean… it is massively better, but yes it still sucks. but what do you move friends and family to? last i looked into element it was not an option for several reasons, and i don’t think anyone would switch to basically noname apps like simplex or similar, even if they might be decent solutions. i really want the last few contacts i have on whatsapp to move, but i’m not gonna push hard to get them to use signal just to get it enshittified in the near future. also a few switched to telegram, which while not facebook, is not really better mainly because it doesn’t even e2ee by default.
I moved my whole family since years to Delta Chat, eventually started contributing to the project and even created my own fork that is what my family is using, see: https://lemmy.ml/post/26007254
i huge recommend both SIP + XMPP software :)
ArcaneChat is dope. I’m testing it out with my partner right now. The built-in Jitsi button is super helpful. My extended family (about 30 people) switched over to signal a few years ago, so there is some inertia there, but for any new chats, DeltaChat (and ArcaneChat for Android users) is what I’m going to push for.
Nice! 🤩
What’s the reasons against Element :)? Currently testing it with some friends of mine, before trying to lure my family on it instead of iMessage. So would be interested in why you don’t think it’s feasible.
tons of reasons against element :
-huge/heavy interface on both web/software client
-2 passwords, 1 for session, 1 for encryption keys
-takes huge storage on server
-it’s the whatsapp of OSS
here it is :
https://lukesmith.xyz/articles/matrix-vs-xmpp/
@EySkibidiBabBab Element? That’s just one of the apps, and frankly, not the best one. You are looking for Matrix. For android I’d recommend FluffyChat, for desktop/web Cinny. For iOS I’d recommend throwing it to a lake.
Element?
Element! :D
I’m fully aware of the relationship between Matrix and Element as well as alternative clients existing. I actually find it kinda hard to communicate about. Whenever i say something like “i sent you a link on Matrix” the few people i use Matrix with get confused. People are used to referring to app/client-names: fb messenger, outlook, iMessage (even if i’m sending an sms) and not the underlying technology.
I’ve tried explaining it like email - you can register an email somewhere and access it through several email clients. But i mean, people who’s not as much into software as i (and i suspect you as well due to your fine recommendations) – and still refers to their email as “outlook” – they can have a hard time wrapping their head around that relationship. An app is just an app… Right?
The reason i referred to it as “element” in my comment, was because the comment i replied to referred to it as Element tho.
From a purely “vote with your wallet” standpoint it doesn’t make sense, because there’s no money paid. However, one might worry about data/information getting in the hands of a fascist/compromised government. So I think people should judge this themselves case by case.
I think the important part is about who is running the server, rather than who made the software
The fediverse is interesting in that context because each instance can decide where they set up the infrastructure or how they process data / requests. The same applies to self hosting
I saw an article that outlined which country each fediverse platform “originated” from, such as Canada for Pixelfed and Germany for Mastodon. That’s fun to know about, but otherwise not important to users compared to the instances themselves
At most it might speak to which laws will govern the project itself, but even then someone can fork a project that goes astray
People should pay for foss. Donations are oftentimes welcome
I mean, any FOSS project from anywhere could be being used by a fascist government or corporation, to be fair. That’s literally one of the very serious and real downsides of FOSS. It’s able to be used for good or ill.
I mean, it can easily be argued that the US corporate technology class has benefited far more from FOSS than end-users worldwide.
Initially, EC2 used Xen virtualization exclusively. However, on November 6, 2017, Amazon announced the new C5 family of instances that were based on a custom architecture around the KVM hypervisor, called Nitro.
Amazon leveraged FOSS to create their own successful closed-source offshoot. AWS pretty much runs the web. Amazon… is not a good company.
That being said, the US has chosen to be isolationist, whether all of its citizens agree with it or not. Having less of a presence on the international stage, including in the FOSS world, is simply a consequence of isolationism. So boycotting US FOSS is likely to happen in some ways on purpose, and in some ways just from diminished international respect and involvement.
lol who is suggesting boycotting foss projects?
I think OP means that one shouldn’t boycott FOSS projects just because they are from USA. That said, I don’t like to be told what I have to do and don’t agree to “FOSS projects, which should always be preferred to corporate software”. My pc, my LAN, my rules.
I don’t like to be told what I have to do and don’t agree to “FOSS projects, which should always be preferred to corporate software”. My pc, my LAN, my rules.
…he said, without a hint of irony.
Meanwhile, “my PC, my LAN, my rules” is precisely the reason I do agree with always preferring FOSS to corporate software.
Almost all the lists shared in the communities exclude FOSS projects.
Totally agree. The majority of Americans are great people. Not everyone is MAGA. We need to support the good ones. Sanctions and boycotts tend to unite.
One exception would be if the project imposse a security risk because key people and servers, within the US, may be blackmailed or pushed by the new administration. We’re not there yet though. And I hope these projects and people migrate if this becomes the case.
Also, FOSS projects run by big tech are probably also wise to avoid for strategic reasons.
Totally agree. The majority of Americans are great people.
Not choosing to vote or speak is endorsing the establishment. We are not great people. We are dumbfucks.
The majority of Americans are great people
They’re not the majority if they can’t win an election — just sayin’.
a minority of the population voted for trump though, it’s not like 50+% of the total population voted for him, it’s 50+% of the voters, a lot of people just didn’t vote.
a lot of people just didn’t vote.
So they decided that it was just fine if he won and saw no reason to oppose what he stands for…
Yeah, that’s some good people right there I can see that /s
Voter ID, gerrymandering, not allowing absentee voting, no day off.
Not everyone was able to vote, and that disproportionately affected Democratic voters.
All true. But the world also watched a huge amount of voters rejects dems over gaza. While trump had no better plans on gaxa.
Much like Ukraine his only argument is “i am better and every one else was stupid”
The argument often heard. “Voting the lesser of 2 evils is still voting evil”.
So yes these folks very much voted the greater of 2 evils by refusing to vote the lesser option. And much of the rest of the world is rightfully sorta pissed at the evil they allowed in.
Maybe a system that regularly gives us “evil vs lesser evil but still evil” as our only options isn’t worth saving
Sorta like the trolly problem.
You can flip the lever to kill 5 or 1. But if you choose not to and also don’t fucking bother to hit the breaks. Your still responsible for killing 5 instead of 1.
If you are not willing to actually stop the evil fai.ing to selects make you the bigger evil.
“Great people on both sides,” as a very stable genius put it 🙄
Either way, this is probably OT for an open source thread…
Fair enough. I’m still smarting from that election result, all the way across the pond.
On the other side, I don’t count people as “great” who can’t be bothered voting against bigoted authoritarianism. But different strokes, I’m sure.
Yeah, a minority of people voted for Hitler, too.
if its run by a big company then it’s just open source and not free, or do you mean something like a company contributing to the code?
