• Black Xanthus@lemmy.worldEnglish
    19·
    2 days ago

    The comments on this post went exactly like they have over the past 20 years, with one exception.

    Emacs is all but forgoten.

    Vim wins.

    • sunshine@lemmy.ml
      5·
      23 hours ago

      I don’t know, I used vim for like 6 years and then discovered, thanks to the power of evil and doom, how much better the vi experience is inside the context of emacs. With all the utilities and packages, it’s worth the small additional burden of troubleshooting that it imposes.

    • enumerator4829@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      6·
      1 day ago

      Be real fukin careful now. You’ll tear my enacs from my cold dead hands

      (But yeah, I use evil-mode. Also I edit files on remote servers with vim. I’m a traitor…)

    • geoff@lemm.ee
      4·
      1 day ago

      When people are free to choose the best editor for them, we ALL win.

    • AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.netEnglish
      13·
      1 day ago

      Recently, I recommended to a friend that basic vim/vi is worth learning because it’s a baseline that you can always trust will be there across different Linux systems.

      They asked me what I used most on my home system, and the answer was emacs, but I was very clear that I was not recommending it. It’s a particular kind of person who finds themselves at home in emacs, and for everyone besides those people, selling them on emacs would feel like persuading them to do hard drugs.

    • frezik@midwest.social
      4·
      1 day ago

      I think there’s a good reason for that. If you’re not as concerned about resource consumption (Emacs used to be called “Eight Megabytes and Constantly Swapping”, back when 8MB was a lot), then there’s no reason to avoid even more complex and resource intensive IDEs. People who wanted a complex editor, but in a relatively small footprint, stuck with some variant of vi.

      Thus, vi found a stable evolutionary niche. It’s a tardigrade.

    • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
      1·
      1 day ago

      Emacs

      It’s a sound choice. I don’t like to use it, personally, because I want to use something that uses same motions and syntax as editors on servers that I don’t own (ex. customers). And, I’m not a fan of Lisp. It’s a great and (self-)extensible text editor/lisp interpreter, though.

      • coldsideofyourpillow@lemmy.cafeEnglish
        1·
        8 hours ago

        I dislike Evil, and would never recommend it to anyone looking for a modal editing solution for Emacs. I would rather break my pinky with the modifiers than use Evil.

        • Evil is SLOOWWW: its startup time is 10x longer than other modal editing packages.
        • It has high cost of integration with other packages; editing-related packages rarely play well with Evil unless specifically designed for it.
        • We can do better than vi. Nowadays, there are some more modern alternatives to vi, like Kakoune that fix some of the fundamental problems with vi. One such problem is the fact that you cannot know what you are acting on until after the command completes: Kakoune solves this by having a unique noun verb syntax rather than vi’s verb noun syntax. This means that you get constant feedback about what you’re acting on before you act on it, since objects are always highlighted.

        Instead, for anyone looking for a serious and actually good modal editing, I would suggest them to try out meow. It fixes all of the problems I mentioned above, and makes more improvements to the vi experience that I didn’t mention.

      • corsicanguppy@lemmy.caEnglish
        5·
        2 days ago

        you’ll be able to say you use vi

        I haven’t wanted to say that in the 32 years I’ve had the choice.

        • festnt@sh.itjust.works
          2·
          2 days ago

          oh ok then link the emacs command to vi and you’ll be able to keep saying you use emacs while using a better text editor 👍

          (please dont kill me this is a joke i dont even use vi please have mercy please spare me please please please)

  • AntY@lemmy.world
    38·
    2 days ago

    Vi hasn’t been updated since 2005. Aren’t everyone just using vim or neovim?

    • smeg@feddit.ukEnglish
      36·
      2 days ago

      I use whatever the machine gives me when I type vi, I assume it’s usually vim

      • communism@lemmy.ml
        17·
        2 days ago

        Huh, vi for me has always been actual vi, not vim. Didn’t know some systems symlink vi to vim.

        • toynbee@lemmy.world
          22·
          2 days ago

          A long time ago, someone posted advocating symlinking vi to emacs. Evil, but entertaining.

        • lime!@feddit.nuEnglish
          9·
          2 days ago

          vim has a limited “vi-mode” that it uses if you call it as vi. so it could still be vim.

          • communism@lemmy.ml
            3·
            2 days ago

            Ohh that makes more sense. Yeah perhaps, although come to think of it I still need to install vim from the package manager even if vi works fresh out of the box so maybe not?

        • Xanza@lemm.eeEnglish
          6·
          2 days ago

          Vim is the preferred experience, so it’s for end users. Unless you have a system with no real addons and classic *nix environment, you’re almost always going to be using Vim. Alpine linux is a good example of a stripped down environment that still uses Vi.

    • Xanza@lemm.eeEnglish
      9·
      2 days ago

      Not to imply that Vi is perfect, but Vi is perfect. What do you need an update for? /s

      • Radioactive Butthole@reddthat.comEnglish
        4·
        2 days ago

        It isn’t as dumb as it sounds, honestly! I used to use DBeaver and it is a fantastic project, but I really wanted Vim keybinds to construct my queries as they can sometimes be quite large. There used to be a plugin that added the functionality but it stopped working on my machine. This Vim plugin is essentially a wrapper for the CLI SQL client (psql in my case), so using it actually kind of makes sense, I think.

        The biggest issue I faced was exporting the results, but I just created a function in my ~/.vimrc that copies all the text of the results to a new tab and formats it however I want. CSV, HTML, JSON, XML, Markdown, whatever I need is all there and predefined. All I have to do is call :ExportToMarkdown and off I go.

    • frezik@midwest.social
      5·
      1 day ago

      SVG, unironically yes. There’s a few times where I found a library or WYSIWYG editor making some strange choices for its SVG output, and I had to fix it manually.

  • kata1yst@sh.itjust.works
    27·
    2 days ago

    Everyone at work is using Cursor these days, except for me using neovim and my emacs loving coworker. When we present during pair programming our coworkers go nuts over watching our workflows and trying to figure out if they can do similar things in Cursor lol.

  • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
    24·
    2 days ago

    I know this is supposed to be a joke. But, VI is awful, and i can’t believe anybody would use that over a modern editor. But, I know some people who like it.

      • Jumuta@sh.itjust.works
        8·
        2 days ago

        how do you tolerate the 0 and $ to jump to the ends? it’s so painfully inconvenient and made me switch to helix where it’s g->h and g->l. do you not use the default keymap?

        • LastYearsIrritant@sopuli.xyzEnglish
          11·
          2 days ago

          Shift-A and Shift-I to append at the end or insert at the start.

          Once you know the system, it’s much easier to do everything without having to take your hands off the keyboard to use a mouse.

            • hinterlufer@lemmy.world
              6·
              2 days ago

              Most nvim users I know have their setup very much customized. That takes time, effort and is a pita. But afterwards you have a tool that just works like you want it to work, and is super fast (at least compared to VSCode).

              • KeenFlame@feddit.nu
                2·
                1 day ago

                I don’t understand why you compare it to vs code, it’s not a text editor and besides, it has vim too?

                • hinterlufer@lemmy.world
                  2·
                  1 day ago

                  They’re both code/text editors, or what would you call VSCode instead? An IDE? you can make an IDE out of nvim if you want.

                  Yes, there is a vim mode in VSCode, but in some cases it can be very slow (like editing a few thousand columns at once), and is not as tightly integrated.

        • notabot@lemm.ee
          4·
          2 days ago

          Muscle memory mostly. I miss vim keybinding when I have to type in anything else, including Lemmy.

        • Petter1@lemm.ee
          9·
          2 days ago

          Imagine thinking modern IDE are more efficient than vi 😯

          Curser is more intuitive, I agree, but you will never win a code race against similar skilled coder on vi…

            • Petter1@lemm.ee
              7·
              2 days ago

              Umm, there are regularly coding race events here where I live…

              Coding can be hobby as well, you know.

              Not all of this world is pure capitalism, some have some free time doing stuff they want how they want.

              Coding is not my profession (right now)

              • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world
                1·
                23 hours ago

                Coding is a team sport bcz it takes a lot of people to maintain large complex systems, has nothing to do with capitalism. Hell, I make video games in my spare time, and can barely manage a half asked attempt at a game for fun when working alon (unless I want to spend a lot of time on it). Alternatively, I can make a decently playable game with a few more people helping me. Coding is just a lot of work if you want to make anything substantial, just how it is.

    • dohpaz42@lemmy.worldEnglish
      20·
      2 days ago

      Modern “vi” is typically a symlink to vim, and as long as compatibility is disabled it’s very useful; especially when working over ssh or quick and dirty config editing that doesn’t warrant a full blown ide to be started up.

        • Petter1@lemm.ee
          5·
          2 days ago

          Nano is for people that are too lazy to learn vi if they much time (ergo not needing it)or have too less time to learn it (even tho, they would get so much time back in return, if they would learn vi)

          This applies only to people that regularly work with GUIless headless machines

          • Overshoot2648@lemm.ee
            2·
            8 hours ago

            Micro is the best. I work with servers all the time and it’s so nice to just be able to use my mouse and normal shortcuts.

          • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
            3·
            2 days ago

            Okay I kinda get it if you regularly write scripts or configs on headless machines, though even then I’d think using just vscode remote development plugin would be my tool of choice.

            Usually I use nano if I just need to do a quick change to a file, or even on my personal device if it requires sudo (such as apt sources or fstab) and I do it just once so don’t bother thinking how to use sed for it

    • andros_rex@lemmy.world
      15·
      2 days ago

      I prefer vim, but vi is nice too. (I miss Vimperator for Firefox)

      It’s just so fast when you get it down. It works well with a cli-only work flow. Why use mouse when type very fast?

      There’s immense pleasure and honor in writing C the way our ancestors did.