This comment section: “Actually I’m pretty sure the bike fell over for reasons unrelated to the stick”
Me, a young man venturing out into the world:
Never saying the wacko stuff championed by Tate and instead just being socially awkward and strangely passionate about FOSS and motorcycles:
Can’t find a girlfriend. Seriously, why is this so hard?
One of the reasons it is so hard is that right now is an extremely difficult time for people, so I think meeting people is even more difficult. If you are stressed out about making rent every month, guess what socialization and finding a partner becomes a distant priority vs just surviving.
I promise you though there are plenty of women out there who find social awkward people into niche hobbies sexy, especially if you are a genuinely nice person (which, beyond a superficial impression, is pretty much always the truly sexy thing about a person).
The problem is that those women are sitting at home exhausted and sad from modern life the same way you are, and it is hard to meet people outside the context of a bar.
If you are a nice person you are sexy and enough the way you are, what needs to change is the brutal grind of modern life, not you.
I mean just from a basic freetime calculation… women didn’t use to be able to work, which is fucked up, but it is also fucked up how much everybody’s lives are swallowed up by work at least in the US, and if you compare the difficulty of finding a women to hit it off with vs when women weren’t working as much…. I mean you have to cut yourself slack. The women of your dreams probably isn’t at the bar or wherever public meeting space you are, or actively on the dating app because they are stressed out and working all the time just like you :(
You got it backwards mate. Young men are falling for those charlatans because they provide an easy solution to the loneliness epidemic (of which young men are the most likely victims).
its the world’s fault for me being a complete piece of shit
Lmao, the victim complex of the most abusive subgroup of men on the planet is hilarious.
Please, tell me more about your immunity to propaganda.
The reality is that there’s a lot of money to be made in telling young, single, socially removed men what they want to hear and there are just as many people ready to make that money.
Identifying a person as a victim of one thing isn’t an excuse for any other harm that they perpetuate.
I didn’t say anything about immunity to propaganda.
Feel free to address what I said, though. I’m mocking the ironic victim complex of abusive individuals.
My grevience is a very basic application of social Marxism.
I’m saying that the “most abusive subgroup of men” aren’t born, they’re made through propaganda and charlatans. That makes them victims, which I have some sympathy for, even if they go on to perpetuate an awful cycle of misogyny. I’m just critical of these kinds of arguments like the OP which place the blame on the perpetuaters instead of the sources.
Despite this, shame is still a valid application of positive punishment to active participants of an abusive subgroup.
Go be the carrot to somebody who needs a philosophy 101 course to justify defending actively harmful forms of propoganda from criticism. I’m not your guy, I have my own objectives in this discourse.
Ultimately, none of this invalidates the observation of an ironic use of a victim complex.
“Valid” in what sense? Of course you’re allowed to shame people who perpetuate terrible actions/thoughts against women. But when that group was literally created by and has grown through pre-existing, socially reinforced thoughts of shame and inadequacy, I’m going to hold you slightly responsible for that problem continuing.
I’m going to hold you responsible for defending them from criticism they need to face. You are creating a safe space for abusive ideologies to fester.
Have you been on Reddit lately? Every post has about 50% of comments that are incel type statements just talking about how they’ll be forever alone, they have no good traits, etc. it’s fucking pathetic
Had an older co-worker who kept saying that Andrew Tate had some real gems and that he was just telling young men to give up videogames and hit the gym if they wanted some self worth.
So one day I looked him dead in the eye and gave him my best impersonation of a 1950’s radio voice and said. " Young ladies if you don’t work on refining and improving your womanly figure with clean living and labourous exercise and not stop wasting your time reading novels then how will you ever expect to catch a husband?!"
I would like to say that I scored a point but he just sputtered and went on being horrible.
Andrew Tate is the absolute worst, but it is also a fact - one that has been true for all of recorded history - that competing with each other for female attention is a generally popular male motivation. And when a guy doesn’t do those things, he can expect mockery. Do you have anything nice to say about neckbeards? No? Didn’t think so.
You’re being downvoted for pointing out human nature. You’re not wrong, we compete for females. We’re animals, even if people want to lie and claim we’ve progressed. We have not.
Bullshit. This queer begs to fucking differ.
Well ya, you’re a freak of nature by literal definition, of course you wouldn’t agree. Humans, like all animals have a drive to reproduce. You don’t have that drive, you’re not relevant.
You’re going to interpret this literal fact as homophobia too which is kinda funny if you knew me LoL.
Homosexuality has been observed in species including birds, fish, insects, and over 1500 species of mammals.
Blowjobs don’t make babies, and homophobia is only observed in one species. Who’s a freak of nature now? Checkmate heteros!
Ok? What’s your point? Are you trying to use homosexuality as an argument against the imperative to procreate?
WTF is wrong with you? You should listen to some blood hound gang this evening LMFAO.
One of the best things taught to me growing up is that you don’t have to prove yourself to anyone. There are shallow people, but why waste time with them? Why not go with people who are more open-minded, have good control to not give into superficial and shallow biological instincts, and will accept you for who you are?
Yes, we’re all taught that. Our evolutionary instinct is stronger than your teachings, more often than not.
Open minded people open their legs too. That’s just reality.
Murder and rape is also natural but not everyone does it and we frown upon it. We have laws against it.
Giving in to instincts that are not productive is showing weakness.
Ya, we live in a society and we should place restrictions around our innate nature, we’ve learned about the perils of not doing so.
That doesn’t in anyway mean it’s not our nature. It’s weird people are offended by this reality.
We don’t go on physical fights to win over a women. It’s destructive. How difficult is it to understand? We don’t act on destructive instincts because it’s not productive and, well, destructive.
I always say this to others, but you must be with running with a bad crowd to hold such warped view.
So i take it if you fancy a new “female” you kill her previous partner in a fight and then her children with that partner, so she will focuse her attention on the children you make with her. If necessary by raping her? Also if there is no nee females available you will rape and make new children with your own daughters?
Because that is what animals do.
Are you trying to use this argument to deny evolution or evolutionary instinct? Cuz your attempted argument makes no sense. Trying to claim humans aren’t driven to procreate is simply contrary to all available information.
Are you not understanding that social and cultural evolution is part of evolution and that there might be good reason why not murdering and rapeing each other like animals do, is an evolutionary advantage?
Social evolution is a wonderful thing, it’s not stronger than your biological imperative though. Maybe one day, but that days not today. The guy is still going to chase the virile woman and the woman is still going to seek comfort and safety.
“Nature” doesn’t have any rigid set of rules that push us to be anything specific, in fact it’s very much the opposite resulting in evolution and adaptation that is constantly interfering with the traits getting passed down. Sure we have biological mechanisms resulting from this that will reward us for things that tend to increase the population over time, because individuals that didn’t were unlikely to reproduce, but even those aren’t consistent from individual to individual, and are regularly suppressed and regulated in response to changing environments as would be seen in nature. Nature is constantly and relentlessly progressing, it’s just slow on a human timescale.
Science and nature are not forcing you or anyone to be misogynistic, that’s just the excuse many have decided to use so they don’t have to confront themselves or the complicated societal issues behind it.
Nature has one general rule…procreate.
That’s why you’re here. Me too.
Neckbeards are some of the best Dungeon Masters and I ain’t lying
In this thread: User ThuleanPerspective apparently losing their fucking minds and then having their entire account comment history removed. I’ve never been so intrigued to know what crazy nonsense this person posts.
Update: Looked closer at their history. Managed to comment in dozens of threads per minute. Likely a bot that got removed. That’s more boring than I’d hoped.
lol as though they’d use the word “woman” in this sentence
removedS
wait come back removeds why do you run from thee
Backwards thinking.
Andrew Tate isn’t creating these young men out of well adjusted people.
Young men today face a mountain of issues with zero sympathy from the people or institutions around them. And grifters prey on these men.
Having grown up in the “teach boys not to rape” era of progrssive rhetoric, it’s actually insane to see all these people just insist being in a guy’s world is all sunshine and rainbows and all these men are just awful people falling of their own accord.
Young men get told some pretty damaging things growing up, even from progressive people.
Everyone has problems, lots of people are coming of age all kinds of fucked up, and we can’t fix this by implying it’s all their own doing.
You mean there is more to this than a black and white interpretation of the issues??
Young men in many areas are ridiculously hopeless with despair - its not really something that is talked about.
I had a teacher point this out to me too by just pointing out the percentage of girls in the class. They call them the lost boy generation because good intentions to get women into paths like STEM resulted in forgetting about investing in the boys.
But also some of us boys need lots of damaging things its not a one size fits all. Not traumatizing stuff but damage is needed for boys. Boys need to be pushed and discipline and we need to break bones and fight and get dirty to become an adult who can go on to teach a new generation how to do those things safely and responsible.
I’m a stem teacher, and I work hard at trying to get more women into stem.
- More women reduce reduce the number of men but simply increase the number of subjects we teach.
- More women in stem creates normality and produces more women in stem. When we have open nights women telling women how cool and interesting the subject is excited them.
- It increases range and capacity, I have tasks that are designed to interest young men. As I started producing content that also interests women we got better and richer tasks.
- In my teaching area we moderate other teachers courses and every single teacher who whines about women in stem have boring single focused programs
- Men like courses with women. Especially if those women have similar interests
The no opportunity for males to be exceptional is a dog whistle. Stem is still there for men. There are still high standards.
The problem is a lack of men in teaching roles.
Young men have few, sometimes no, men who act as role models…for example, I get comments from students who love the fact that I have a beard and they like that a teacher is proud to present in one.
Secondly men and women have different skills socialized into them. Guys are better at exams and practical tasks while women are socialized to be better at communicating tasks. As men left education assessments moved from practicals and exams to essays.
Socialized isn’t entirely correct it’s also a lack of focus on the difference between how young men and women develop in primary years which also leads to skill issues
Anyway ranting on my phone sucks. More women in stem, especially in digital technology and engineering is great, women have ideas, they can solve problems, we should learn why engineering is a sausage festival instead of just assuming that it is because men are more exceptional at engineering than women.
Thank you for bothering to rant on your phone despite the fact that it sucks.
I am a middle aged engineering student (undergrad) with two young daughters (6 and 8), so many of the things you refer to are on my mind a lot.
In my country (UK) the number of male teachers/carers is strongly proportional to the age of the student. Nursery staff : predominantly women Primary school staff: maybe a few men as main teachers Secondary school: is it 50/50? or still more like 70/30? (I dunno, it’s a long time since I was there, and my kids aren’t there yet)
Anyway, it’s easy to have young boys, especially if (their father works away, or is otherwise distant from the family), get up to the age of being aware of Andrew Tate with very few male role models.
The problem is a lack of men in teaching roles.
This is something that men will need to step up and do. We need left wing men who’ll help them out. And each of us can do what we can to help the boys we know too.
I get what you are saying, but we just need men. Socially healthy, well-adjusted men. Especially in early education. Role models matter.
All true. But because teaching is historically “women’s work,” it is undervalued and underpaid.
Most teachers I know have at least Master’s degrees, yet we’re paid less than B.A.s start at in many fields. I took a 20k/year pay cut when I became a teacher, despite having received a Master’s degree before entering the field.
Until we value teaching as much as we value other types of work, we’re not going to attract large numbers of qualified people, whether they’re men or women.
For me, the reason it is hard out there is because I am super careful when trying to pick someone up and they end up mistaking my pickup lines for friendly banter and I end up getting friendzoned.
Plus I am super choosy myself and take long to crush on someone and then take super long to get over a crush. (o﹏o)
But I agree that listening to toxic males like Tate will likely not make it easier.
The Friendzone doesn’t exist, you’re just not compatible together romantically and you made a friend.
Best way I’ve heard it.
Friendzone is bullshit, because women are not vending machines that accept nice and dispense sex.
I’m not a Rogan meathead, but women are absolutely super choosey these days. Dating apps have given women an inflated sense of their own (dating) worth, and they largely want tall, handsome, well-off, slightly older men.
Of course I’m painting with a broad brush here, but this post is talking in generalities anyway.
I’m not a Rogan meathead, but women are absolutely super choosey these days. Dating apps have given women an inflated sense of their own (dating) worth, and they largely want tall, handsome, well-off, slightly older men.
If this is happening even a little bit it is because of the distorting forces of capitalism and addictive phone apps are warping peoples interactions on dating apps.
I promise you, if you are genuinely a pretty nice human being who tries to be a good person there are plenty of women out there who want to fuck you. Really, the world is full of horny women who get hot and bothered by realizing that cute man they just met is also really sweet and kind. You don’t need fit any particular idea of a man, I understand it feels like you do and that is an awful feeling but it is a feeling not the reality.
Also women are probably more choosey because they are by large exhausted from work places that grind them down, trying to make rent, healthcare bullshit and any number of other struggles of modern life, just like you. They want to make sure that use their vanishing amount of free time, energy and money pursuing somebody that isn’t going to be a dead end.
If you want the quickest route to more men finding women who are interested in them, then support unionization, the social safety net, workers rights, and progressive legislation on housing. We need to take better care of people so that they have more free time, energy and money to pursue love and sex.
The comments are quite saddening, and also quite worrying.
This isn’t to put women’s issues down, but men have problems too. There’s a reason why young men turn to these grifters and get manipulated by them.
Even above all of that, assuming you don’t agree, it’s a problem. We’re building up generations of uneducated and toxic men led by these role models. We can’t just shrug that off and say it’s not our issue, because at some point it is going to be our issue.
The patriarchy hurts everyone.
I find it telling that the meme is about men following idiotic “influencers” and so many people here are like “I identify with that man on the bike but my problems are unrelated”
I wouldn’t say identify. Pretty sure many of us don’t follow Andrew Tate or influencers in general. We’re showing empathy for the general situation. Sorry it bothered you.
This is a problem that I really feel like gets no attention.
With all the focus on women’s rights, young men feel neglected. And modern feminism does imply that men can’t really talk about issues because that comes from a place of privilege.
This isn’t the only time it happened. Male victims of sexual harassment and assault were pretty much entirely shut out of #MeToo.
So, young men feel marginalized and they will listen to whoever makes sense.
modern feminism does imply that men can’t really talk about issues?
not to be all “source?” but — source?
This statement feels full of selection bias. Let’s assume Angela Davis literally said this, does that mean Judith Butler agrees?
But I imagine it’s more that this was said by a semi-anonymous rage bait account on a social media platform.
That’s not to say such things aren’t hurtful - they are - but in the same way FirstnameBunchOfNumbers on Twitter says stupid shit all the time - eg all unions are all always bad and are literally communism - that doesn’t speak for the entirety of tradespeoples.
Nobody is telling men what to actually do to be a lovable person. Just what not to do.
Woman here. (Sorry, don’t typically announce my gender, but relevant to the comment if someone else reads it.)
Tbh I wish the conversation were more positive. I ain’t no expert cuz I’m struggling with my own advice, but I’d recommend: Try to get a decent job, work on your mental health, take care of yourself, build friendships, try to get in a decent place financially, and maintain a healthy schedule, environment, and diet. Be the kind of person you’d want to date. And treat women like men for the most part. Most people I know in relationships met at work, school, church, dating apps, or through friends / common interests.
But the reason I’m not on the dating market myself is cuz I’m a mess of a human being who doesn’t want to be trapped in a codependent relationship. Dating doesn’t sound appealing at all when I have so many problems I need to work through first. I’ve seen what happens when people try to fix their problems with relationships; it usually results in more problems.
Best of luck. Sorry things are rough.
Best of luck. Sorry things are rough.
Thank you, sorry if I gave off the wrong impression. I actually said it as I was previously in a situation where I was, but I started focusing on myself (taking advice similar to yours) and it actually does help! Previously I was flat out scared of talking to women. I thought even looking at someone could be creepy/harassing.
Turns out just talking to someone and then asking if they’d like to go out for food or something in a respectful manner after a conversation isn’t creepy and actually seems to invoke a positive reaction from them sometimes? Who would have known!
Oh, glad to hear it!
