cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/22077561
“I’m not interested in anyone who is moving further away from the center,” said Cindy Bass, a Pennsylvania committee member from Philadelphia. “The center is where we have to be.”
They’re not going to change a thing unless people make them.
Find your local state delegate and personally tell them how you feel a centrist is only going to guarantee another Republican victory. They are listed here: https://ballotpedia.org/Democratic_National_Committee
Bernie Sanders is working behind the scenes to get a progressive in there but he can’t do it alone.
Looked mine up… There’s part off the problem…
Compensation
Base salary $174,000
Net worth (2012) $54,251,531.50
They must never order avocado toast. /s
As they begin to dissect their collapse in the presidential election, some Democratic National Committee members are concluding that the party is too “woke,” too focused on identity politics and too out of touch with broad stretches of America.
From the bottom of my heart, fuck these people. They’ve moved so far towards neoliberal policy positions that they no longer have an economic message to give their working-class base. In the absence of a coherent economic vision for the party, they keep doubling down on, “identity politics,” to keep the the Obama Coalition happy; they have nothing to unify their base, so their only option is to take up any position that is important to the demographic groups that make up the party. Now that this strategy has been thoroughly and decisively defeated, their reaction isn’t to return to the progressive economic policies that won them these groups in the first place, but instead to figure which minorities are, “unpopular,” so they can abandon them. What a bunch of stupid, shortsighted cowards.
Respectfully, when you wrote
They’ve moved so far towards neoliberal policy positions that they no longer have an economic message to give their working-class base. In the absence of a coherent economic vision for the party, they keep doubling down on, “identity politics,”
It seems like you agree with
some Democratic National Committee members are concluding that the party is too “woke,” too focused on identity politics and too out of touch with broad stretches of America
I also think that if the Dems want to win, they need to simplify their platform and messaging to focus on what will help working-class people the most. I agree that abandoning people is not the answer, but the messaging and focus needs to be more universal.
You’re right, but the nuance you’re discussing is not what’s being discussed here. Listen to this bit:
“The progressive wing of the party has to recognize — we all have to recognize — the country’s not progressive, and not to the far left or the far right. They’re in the middle,” said Joseph Paolino Jr., DNC committeeman for Rhode Island. “I’m going to look for a chair who’s going to be talking to the center and who’s going to be for the guy who drives a truck back home at the end of the day.”
Or as one DNC member from Florida put it: “I don’t want to be the freak show party, like they have branded us. You know, when you’re a mom with three kids, and you live in middle America and you’re just not really into politics, and you see these ads that scare the bejesus out of you, you’re like, ‘I know Trump’s weird or whatever, but I would rather his weirdness that doesn’t affect my kids.’”
These speakers aren’t distinguishing between socially left and economically left, and reading between the lines, it is very clear that the member from Florida is talking about dropping support for trans people (in a thinly veiled and very offensive way, I might add). They lost the working class because they don’t have a working class message, but they’re blaming the social policies for their loss.
There is an argument to be made that the way they are approaching socially progressive issues is hurting them. Kamala Harris telling the ACLU that she supports transition surgery for migrant detainees painted a very large target on her back for a policy that would have effected a very, very small number of people. That probably should have been a, “pick your battles,” moment for her.
If the argument was, “We’re not going to focus on trans people in sports for now, because a lot of people still don’t support that, but we’re going to talk about how Medicare for All helps everyone, and we’ll make sure that gender affirming care is covered,” OK, there’s a case to be made for that. But what they’re actually saying is, “Well, the economic policy is set by the donors, so there’s nothing we can do about that, but the trans stuff seems to be costing us more votes than it’s winning us, let’s drop that.” They’re trying to jettison the progressive groups they think aren’t helping them instead of building an agenda for progressives to rally behind.
You can vote for whomever you wish but they will continue to serve the rich donor class, as usual.
Y’all have to let the DNC go. They are never going to do what is right for the people.
It’s time for a new party. How many times are we going to watch them fail us before we make a change?
Y’all are like Charlie Brown running up to kick the football right before Lucy pulls it away.
We’ve seen them fail us time and time again on issues that they absolutely had the power to fix.
This is the party of corporate interests. They don’t care about us. They’ve completely abandoned any platform of universal healthcare, they don’t give a flying fuck about the environment, and their border policy is worse than Trump’s somehow.
By repeatedly and blindly voting blue no matter who, we are enabling them to never make any changes for the good.
Your idealist solution is impossible in the practical world that we live in since first past the post voting will always favor the two gigantic parties. It is far easier to change the DNC into what we want then to create a third party
Jesus. They’ve learned nothing:
He added, “Trump really kind of ran up numbers everywhere, you know what I mean? There was clearly a strategy not focusing on one place or another. And as a party we have to do that.”
THATS NOT WHAT FUCKING HAPPENED.
Trumps numbers barely moved.
Harris’s numbers PLUMMETED compared to Trump’s 4 years ago. Start there. That’s where you need to start this postmortem.
Frankly more people were excited about Tim Walz then Kamala Harris. Let’s get more MN politicians in there instead of people from the coasts. The focus on getting someone from the Midwest is the only good news I see. We need someone from Minnesota, Wisconsin or Michigan to lead the party from the inside. They might be fully progressive but understand how to organize and message to everyone. They can’t just float by on politics as usual
I was excited qbout Kamala back when she grilled Biden, but then she got tame, and was tampered down by the Biden admin.
Its Biden’s fault.
Yeah get a progressive Minnesotan.
They described him as a moderate in the article but I say we got a progressive agenda here in MN when we had our trifecta.
They have their big donors who give them their marching orders. They really don’t care if they win or not, so long as they are getting paid.
So either we are to believe they’ve learned nothing and will continue to alienate their base, while remaining inept fools on the international stage, OR their idea of rebuilding a carbon copy of the previous failures is by design.
A centrist DNC is a loser. A center-right DNC is a loser. The DNC will never beat the Republicans at their own game, so either these strategists are the densest people on the planet, or they are the mouthpieces of Controlled Opposition, exactly as expected.
There is no duality in which savvy, intelligent political players arrive at “Centrism wins,” without some inherent greasy, malfeasant ulterior motives.
It’s difficult to even pretend that they are serious in this endeavor; their every action and utterance is an admission of planned incompetence.
There is no duality in which savvy, intelligent political players arrive at “Centrism wins,”
Obama and Clinton were centrists. They won.
Clinton won in 1993. The late 1900s. 30+ years ago.
Obama’s entire campaign was on Hope for Change. And he’s the first black President ever.
Are you really trying to argue that these are equivalences?
Clinton and Obama are still alive today, they are still centrist, and they are still extremely popular.
If Trump got his way and was allowed to run for a third term in 2028, is there any doubt that Obama could defeat him?
Obama proved himself a centrist, but he ran as a progressive. That’s the crucial difference.
He ran as someone who would bring together Blue America and Red America in the spirit of bipartisanship.
From the beginning, he intentionally reached out to Republicans.
We worship an awesome God in the blue states, and we don’t like federal agents poking around in our libraries in the red states. We coach Little League in the blue states and, yes, we’ve got some gay friends in the red states.
His 2008 acceptance speech at the DNC mentions “Republicans” five times, and never in a disparaging manner. It does not mention labor unions even once.
Tonight, I say to the American people, to Democrats and Republicans and independents across this great land — enough! This moment — this election — is our chance to keep, in the 21st century, the American promise alive.
The Bush-McCain foreign policy has squandered the legacy that generations of Americans — Democrats and Republicans — have built, and we are here to restore that legacy.
I love this country, and so do you, and so does John McCain. The men and women who serve in our battlefields may be Democrats and Republicans and independents, but they have fought together and bled together and some died together under the same proud flag. They have not served a red America or a blue America – they have served the United States of America.
The challenges we face require tough choices, and Democrats as well as Republicans will need to cast off the worn-out ideas and politics of the past.
And I’ve seen it in this campaign. In the young people who voted for the first time, and in those who got involved again after a very long time. In the Republicans who never thought they’d pick up a Democratic ballot, but did.
I love how they think the best way forward is to become the embodiment of the election strategy that just failed so spectacularly for Harris. Brilliant.
And Clinton
2016: “We don’t need to change! Look at our opponent, Trump!”
2020: “We’ll pretend to be M4A. But the main thing is beating Trump! Worry about change later!”
2024: “We lost, but we did everything right. Americans are the problem. Anyways, Trump is in his last term, so why change?”
Then make sure to tell the people actually voting for the chair to give the pushback they need to see that’s a mistake. Change is only going to come when we speak up
I’m more interested in mobilizing people outside of the electoral process at this point.
I will continue to vote but, on a national level, I no longer believe that lasting meaningful change will happen at the ballot box.
I have even less faith in the DNC ability to drive that change regardless of who is the chair. I think the best hope in that regard is an insurgent campaign a’la Bernie 2016/2020, and even then…idk.
There is power where there is people, the DNC seem to see this as an inconvenience. People are where I’m interested in spending my energy now.
Spending meaningful political capital on the DNC seems about as effective as that billion dollars in donations was for the Harris campaign this cycle.
Not discouraging anyone from doing it, as much as encouraging y’all to put the work in outside of the electoral process.
You do you.
So, to solve the problem of the left not voting them, they are moving further to the right.
Yeah, America, I’m sorry to tell you but you are screwed. You have 4 years to either behead the dnc and turn it into a left wing party, or greate an actual left party.
Otherwise, you’re going to be eating fascism fo dinner until you implode.
Well for that to happen Nancy and Chuck have to kick the bucket first
The Left keeps not voting in hopes the Dems will come to them.
It’s not going to work next time either.
This is why I’m holding out hope that Sanders is working on the foundation of a new party. The DNC is clearly not the way forward, and doesn’t look like they’re going to pull themselves out of their death spiral.
Sanders is almost 90. You cant count on him to survive his term, much less create a new Party.
No 3rd party has won the Presidency in modern times.
If you want to see change, look at what’s actually worked in the past.
Back in the day, a guy named Jerry Falwell made himself a power in the GOP by a simple trick.
Both Parties, Dems and GOP have local clubs that make the small scale choices that keep things moving. They pick the county clerks and sheriffs. If the local GOP club had had twenty people at the meeting that chose the country clerk, Falwell’s folks would show up with fifty.
After a while, those county clerks were becoming Congresspeople.
Also consider running yourself too for those local down ballot races and or encouraging progressives you know to do the same!
Thanks for the links
So, to solve the problem of the left not voting them, they are moving further to the right.
I humbly disagree. This seems to be an overly simplified view.
The origins of “the far left” (as I understood it) was basically promoting heavy government involvement. For example, breaking up monopolies, many government subsidied programs for it’s people, which in turn needs higher taxes for it people (so the rich get taxed more, the poor get taxed less).
The origins of “the far right” was the polar opposite. No government involvement. Companies will do “what’s right” in order to compete for profit, less tax on it people, as there are fewer government processes/programs (because people have more personal wealth and can afford the programs that are relevant for them).
“the center” was in the middle of these two extremes. The understanding is that there needs to be some government involvement to prevent companies from going unchecked, not all people have equal chances in life resulting in some people needing more/less government assistance, ect. Yet, also acknowledging that the Stalin form of socialism fights against the basic human desire to “work to make their lives better” and companies (when left to their own devices) cannot be absolutely trusted to do “what’s right” for society.
The problem with the DNC and the 2024 election is that the media has perverted what “the far left” aka Democrats and “the far right” aka Republicans (and this has been going on for years).
Based on your line of “left vs right”, I’d argue that the Republican party is “close to” my definition of “the far right” (fascism aside). Yet, the Democratic Party is actually closer to “the far right” than they are “the far left”. I’d even go so far as to say, that the Democratic Party is far “right of center”.
So, yeah, I totally support moving the DNC towards the center, because it’ll (finally) make the Democratic Party closer to their “far left” ideals.
The origins of “the far left” (as I understood it) was basically promoting heavy government involvement. For example, breaking up monopolies, many government subsidied programs for it’s people, which in turn needs higher taxes for it people (so the rich get taxed more, the poor get taxed less).
People on the far left were actually interested in expropriation of private property and a more egalitarian distribution of those resources and decisionmaking. They also wanted actual democracy (as in power to the people) rather than Democracy™ where it’s only for a handful of the population who aren’t getting actively disenfranchised.
If you nationalize industries you get to use the profits directly, rather than messing around with taxes after the fact.
nationalizing industries will kill innovation and improvements and isnt necessary. you just need to structure the system to promote worker cooperatives instead of corporations. you get the best of both worlds.
The far right is also big government, just in a very different way.
If that were true then the people in this thread arguing for the DNC to move to the left would be agreeing with the DNC themselves saying they need to move to the center. But the DNC is disagreeing about moving to the left. Clearly they think they are further left of center than they want to be, e.g. their goals are to move to the right. This is the exact opposite of what you are saying will work. Yes, the Overton window has shifted, but the DNC wants to keep shifting it towards the right, and not have it shift back leftwards at all.
They lost the election by running an essentially republican candidate. Fingers crossed for a progressive chair.
Fingers crossed for a progressive chair.
“The best we can do is Debbie Wasserman Schultz.” -DNC
Centrist Democrats are revolting.
As they begin to dissect their collapse in the presidential election, some Democratic National Committee members are concluding that the party is too “woke,” too focused on identity politics and too out of touch with broad stretches of America.
[…]
Or as one DNC member from Florida put it: “I don’t want to be the freak show party, like they have branded us. You know, when you’re a mom with three kids, and you live in middle America and you’re just not really into politics, and you see these ads that scare the bejesus out of you, you’re like, ‘I know Trump’s weird or whatever, but I would rather his weirdness that doesn’t affect my kids.’”
Aka the libs want to turn on trans people.
Point me to a moment during the last campaign that Kamala promoted identity politics. The very most important thing we should do is to nit listen to pundits.
Point me to a moment during the last campaign that Kamala promoted identity politics.
They can’t. But the alternative is admitting that moving to the right has failed, and centrists will never do that.
Middle America is about 20y behind the rest of us, this is the 90s gay marriage situation all over again. If the DNC actually wants to win elections they need to stop putting narrow identity groups front and center and run on their track record of positive economic policy for everyone or they’re going to lose every election for the next 20y (barring those won by voter backlash over catastrophic Republican admin fuck-ups.)
The DNC went too far down the identity politics rabbit hole and hasn’t quite realized that people in the identity demographics they want to Jenga together into 270 EC votes are willing to vote for the other side because they’re not happy with the DNC’s corporate profit economy.
The critical flaw in the DNC’s 20y old identity politics strategy is the assumption that these identity groups are monolithic. It’s a prejudiced as hell position to take that “these are the interests of all women” or “these are the interests of all black people” and yet that’s what the DNC has tried to do for the last three elections running. It should be painfully obvious at this point that this doesn’t work: women, PoC and Muslims voted for Trump in droves (or stayed home in protest) despite the front and center spending to bring those groups on side this election. Everyone’s tired of performative pandering and wants real economic and policy reform to help recover some of what was lost to the last couple of economic crashes and to inflation.
The meme is already stale but JFC they’ve learned nothing from the last two election losses - the Harris campaign was the 2016 Clinton campaign minus the fundraising dinners on Wall St.
Middle America is about 20y behind the rest of us, this is the 90s gay marriage situation all over again. If the DNC actually wants to win elections they need to stop putting narrow identity groups front and center
The RNC did that. Democratic candidates, in their trademark panicked cowardice, parroted right wing bigotry about boys in girls’ sports in their own campaign ads.
Most of the time, when Democrats mentioned trans people at all, they were making sure to let everyone know that they didn’t have their backs. Add that to breaking solidarity with Muslim voters, and you have a party that broadcasted that it was eager to throw vulnerable populations under the bus.
The conservative media machine has been splitting wedges between groups basically forever, it’s a convenient way to pit people against each other.
The DNC, in their infinite wisdom, took that political landscape and instead of bringing everyone together in a big tent decided to pick out specific identity groups to pander to and drove the original wedges clean through.
I’m almost convinced the DNC wants to lose at this point, they seem pretty content with the position of professional minority opposition - it’s a convenient place to be if you want to fundraise endlessly.
Hear fucking hear.
It’s ridiculous that these things even need to be pointed out. The DNC is packed full of highly educated high income people who have no fucking idea what the average person’s life is like and it shows in their priorities.
They need to drop their focus on identity pandering and neoliberal corporate blood sucking if they want any hope in hell of an EC win. All the slick consultants in the world won’t convince middle America to vote for more business as usual.
SurprisePikachu.jpg
Surely no one here that y’all branded as tankies told you so.
Tankies will turn around and tell you Russia and China are something positive.
Best not to listen to broken clocks.
Aka the libs want to turn on trans people.
The DNC aren’t liberals. They’re center-right.
Both the DNC and RNC both operate within the framework of neoliberal ideology
I really wish they would put out a survey for voters. Some way to collect data about what people actually want. Like a huge survey, let every registered dem fill it out.
If they’re talking about running some bland business-as-usual candidate then that’ll lose. People want change.
Based on their track record I have no faith in progress.
Is abolishing the DNC an option? Otherwise, we’re wasting valuable time.
I remain convinced that any effective resistance to Trump and MAGA will have to come from outside the Democratic Party.
I’m sure that the same people who couldn’t deliver Bernie Sanders an overwhelming win in 2020 can suddenly become savvy pols who can just put together a national third party.
If you want action, do what AOC and the others in her squad did. Work inside the Dem party.
Take a lesson from the right. Back in the 1970s Jerry Falwell decided to take control of the GOP. He did it from the ground up. If the local GOP club had had twenty people show up to the last meeting to pick the next county clerk, Falwell’s people would show up with fifty people. Soon those county clerks and sheriffs were becoming Congresspeople and Senators.
Politics is a game and the left sucks at playing it.
Side note: what happened to all the 3rd party chuds after the election? I guess they’re all just going to sit on their hands and do fuck all until 4 years from now when they need to heroically arrive on the scene and convince everybody to toss away their vote for someone they just heard about because they’re mad at the inevitable Dem centrist pick.
idk man, if the DNC won’t run a progressive, why can’t we get a grassroots movement behind one?
Honestly, I at this point wonder if progressives would be better off running as Republicans. Trump has largely, at least on messaging, distanced himself from a lot of traditional Republican economics. His base doesn’t really care much about traditional Republican policies like tax cuts or even deregulation. It’s mostly just driven by grievance and raw rage against vague elites. Mostly that is directed against cultural elites, but that same movement could be directed against wealth inequality. And the Republican Party has proven itself much more receptive to new ideas than the Democratic Party has. The Republican Party can be taken over by charismatic figures, while wealthy donors and special interest groups largely control the DNC. This isn’t likely to change any time soon. The existing Democratic leadership has more to gain by losing as a centrist than seeing a progressive win and force through change in the DNC.
I say progressives should try running as Republicans. Call yourself a “radical Republican,” hearkening back the historical radical Republicans in the post-Civil War era. Say you were going to stick it to the wealthy, give the little guy a shot, and not do any DEI. Hell, repeatedly hammer the nepotism and social advantages the wealthy have as “wealth DEI.” Rail endlessly against big business and elites. Vow to not appoint anyone who went to an Ivy League school to any position in your administration. Promise not to even talk to a single Wall Street Banker.
