The prohibition on public exposure of breasts by women and girls over 10 years old is now gone from the city code as of this week.
I never thought I’d be conflicted on this, because I am absolutely of the opinion that female breasts and nipples shouldn’t be treated as exclusively sexual body parts, especially since men have them too and we aren’t held to that standard.
But being confronted with the idea that 10-17 year old girls can now bare their breasts in public without restraint reminds me that treating female bodies as non-sexual is great as an ethos, but it is not reflective of reality, and that this specifically could be problematic.
But how to solve it? You can’t make it an 18+ only rule, or you’re further entrenching the idea that female breasts are exclusively sexual and adult, but if you let teens and tweens go topless, they will be sexualized / ogled / photographed by adult men, and that’s a bad precedent to set as acceptable. We usually treat photographs of underage female breasts as a form of CSAM, but can we still say that if we’re treating female breasts as non-sexual? This is an interesting new line to draw, given societal attitudes on adolescent nudity.
Regretfully, I believe that the true problem is men. The reason women have to cover their breasts is because they have to protect themselves from men. I’m all for bodily liberation and the de-sexualization of female existence, but we need an overhaul on our society’s attitudes towards women in general if we’re going to get there. Maybe bare breasts help get us there. Maybe girls need to learn the right way how to kick a man in the balls before they go topless.
I feel like the simple solution is that if you can’t have topless kids because of pervs, then you can’t have topless kids and gender isn’t part of it
This is a western society problem, in tribes where women don’t cover their breasts the men are interested in other parts.
Remember when ankles were sexy
These fucking 304s walking around with their exposed ankles will never find a husband. How will they live without a husband to get a bank account for them? They’ll die miserable and destitute, and they’ll deserve it.
And I’m not an incel for saying so, because I have a kid! Checkmate, removeds!
So you feel that women should be arrested and prosecutable if their nipples are exposed?
That’s very misogynist. And no, you can’t argue for the law to “save the women” from all those perverts. Because the whole point of this is to free women from the bullshit laws that allows society to prosecute them while pulling double duty by effectively shaming their bodies.
Most women are not going to run around topless voluntarily. But, even if they did - say a group of girls or women decided to go skinny dipping or whatever at a lake, do you really believe they should go to jail for that?
Don’t mansplane and tell everyone these laws are for women’s own good, because they aren’t. Inventing this bizarre photographic scenario is just bizarre. It’s a fiction of your imagination and is a straw man argument.
You are correct that the true problem is men, but not how you think it is.
Are you okay? OP’s post was pretty well written, and the guy only explained his moral dilemma without being disrespectful and you come shouting down like a banshee.
His point is a totally valid one and should be discussed to alleviate any moral dilemma to be had.
You are inventing a problem that does not exist. Go take a walk where it is allowed and see how many girls are walking topless in the street.
It’s not necessarily because they don’t want to. It’s because in North American culture, it invites harassment. And then people like many of those posting in this thread will just say that they asked for it. So of fucking course women don’t go topless in public.
Comments like this are why I left reddit. This is a completely hinged and totally reasonable thought process that calls in a question, a lot of facets of the issue and ways them against each other appropriately. Maybe something more crazy would spark a bunch more replies but I totally like that Lemmy is a place that just lets people be normal.
To answer your question, it could be legal grey area because not all pictures depicting nudity are automatically considered pornographic, if you are speaking in terms of legal precedent regarding obscenity in the US.
To further muddy the issue, photographing other peoples kids is considered creepy by nearly everyone but it isn’t expressly illegal unless certain localities have specific statutes against it. There is no reasonable expectation of privacy in public places, so you have the potential situation where people are doing a presumptively legal activity in a public area where photographing that activity could be illegal depending on… intent?
Further, the courts have ruled that getting naked in public in the act of protesting something is part of protected speech. Presumably that applies to people of all ages and sexes as well but I doubt it has ever been tested.
The true problem is not a problem, it’s the reality of human sexuality where most men and some women see female breasts as sexual most of time.
There are different situations where nudity of all kinds is not perceived sexually, that doesn’t affect the general rule that I shouldn’t run around the block all naked.
Saying it’s not equal because men too have nipples and those are not perceived as sexual is kinda strange. Let’s abolish pregnancy leaves then. Gender may be a social construct by now, sex is obviously not, and (most) humans are not hermaphrodites, so the rules can’t be the same.
This is a nothing burger of a subject frankly, we already know that real world doesn’t fit ideal ideas. If some ideal idea would describe the real world, then you’d only need that ideal idea to know it all and other information wouldn’t matter. Some religious fanatics are actually trying, destroying all the knowledge and art not coming from their holy book.
This doesn’t work, the real world is as complex as all the information in it. An action is good or bad only in a particular real situation.
Which is also why choosing a seemingly ideal enough principle and trying to fit it to everything, pretending that makes everyone equal, is a lie.
Women are allowed to walk around in sandals and no shoes at the beach despite foot fetishes being one of the most common paraphilias(behind breasts.)
You don’t see women getting accosted by guys who like feet because they have their toes out and it’s sexual to some guy nearby.
If dudes into feet can control themselves and be respectful then so can dudes into breasts when they are near a top less woman in public.
As far as I’m concerned walking totally naked should be legal, though for practical implications of varying ass-wiping culture and genitals saying things we don’t put into words, I suppose, it would be “everything is optional except pants”.
Why is it not legal everywhere that it is for men? This is ass backwards lol. I just always assumed it was more of a women saying “not gonna do that cause pervs” type thing and how overly sexualized boobs are
It’s a straw man / non issue.
In Germany are public places marked as FKK (Freikörper Kultur = Full Nudity in Public), which are literally normal areas without any special consideration in terms of visibility. Best case: There is a sign notifying the squeamish that there could be Nudity… normal Case: No one gives a fuck.
Heck, the best public baths are the sauna/thermal baths with are mandatory nude, age restriction 16+…
It has no sexual meaning … you go there, everyone is naked after 10 seconds of slight awkwardness, you forget about it and enjoy the freedom of “no cold and wet swimwear” on the body.
It’s great!
I doubt Americans are different in that perspective.
Edit: Perverts won’t have fun there. The people are average and mostly old and the behavior is casual. It’s like seeing your mom or dad naked. The few People who could get off on this have issues.
I doubt Americans are different in that perspective
Lmao
That’s all I came to say
exactly, we’re so regressive here that some parents just never even talk to their children about sex or their bodies because they are too ashamed to bring up the topic. nudity in public would not go over well
Right. This dude doesn’t realize that if women did this in America dudes would be just non stop staring or straight up grabbing a handful walking by and shit. It’s disgusting but it’s the truth or America.
Not every dude would do this obviously but there are a selection of scumbags who most certainly would.
But I thought they love “freedom” over everything?
You didn’t experience freedom when you never took a thermal bath and grilled your balls in the sun… :)
“freedom” as in “free to economic growth” but not “free” as in “free to do what you want”
Hey I’m not saying you’re wrong about that lol But America is full of hypocrisies.
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The Article made it sound like hyped up “look at this thing and how unbelievable it is” while it is completely normal.
But I think I am ignorant regarding the issue in the US an I think I became a sex offender at least twice while visiting the US. ._.
Okay well I’m interpreting this as a joke lmao.
But if it’s not then dude… You’re a sex offender.
If there’s one thing America gets right it’s sex offender laws.
Well I always just change on the spot since I was little, maybe with a loose towel, but it literally just a fig leaf… when it drops, it drops.
But since I’m already a sex offender,… time to grab some removed? (/s)
I wasn’t saying you were a sex offender lol I meant if you did get charged legally it would be for good reason (99% of the time).
Wrongful charges do occur, of course, when a “victim” claims rape falsely and there isn’t enough evidence to prove it didn’t happen (which is the opposite of how it is supposed to be - innocent until proven guilty).
I have no oder how to know everything. There are so many laws for stuff I didn’t even consider regulated, it’s hard to know what’s illegal and when.
Open container law, or that you can’t exit the car and walk on the side of a highway… (the two things we actually got in trouble with, but the cops were chill to us 4 Germans, amused even when we told them we had no more fuel and didn’t know what else to do / when a friend took his beer to the car to finish on the way home)
Next time we will do better
Well you’re kinda right. I’ve lived in BC and the Yukon where it’s fully legal for women to go topless and I know quite a few who have, for shorter events like naked bike ride etc. But most of them intelligently choose not to at public beaches and whatnot because of the ick factor.
I know one lady who did choose to go topless on a hot summer day in a fairly major downtown center and was accosted by cops whom she had to argue with (gladly, and loudly) for over an hour to explain to them that she was breaking no laws. They were trying to pressure her to re-robe because they were getting complaints, but again it’s true that she was breaking no laws at all. They couldn’t in the end do anything about it, and rightly so.
Honestly, boobs are not that exciting.
Have you ever been to a topless beach? The novelty wears out after about 10 seconds and then it becomes a boring norm.
I think boobs are super exciting. I love boobs.
If they’re connected to the body of the girl I’m being intimate with that is.
Walked into Starbucks today to grab a food order and saw an attractive woman breastfeeding her child today, though, and not one sexual thought entered my mind.
Thats the part most men struggle with.
And some women, too, though not for the same reasons. “Oh that’s not something thAt should be done in public!” Okay so I guess for the same reasons, just different thought processes to arrive there.
I have an “umm what about” regarding “of all ages.”
Say a 15 year old girl decides to walk topless down main street. Is everyone on that street who has a security camera running going to be convicted of making child porn?
I don’t trust the legislature to have been competent enough to edit the rest of the code to reflect that change nor do I trust the thin blue line punisher sticker crowd to pass up something they can portray as a crime.
To answer your question seriously, no. Having pictures or videos of a 15 year olds breast is not by default porn, it’s only porn once it’s in a sexual context.
It’s porn if the state wants to harass you for something.
Not just the state. Due process does not exist here, the accusation of sexual misconduct is often enough to destroy someone’s life. So it’s anyone who chooses to accuse him of something.
So… if i would look at it … O nice i know that store she walks by = pic is safe O nice tits i gonna jerk off to it = pic is porn ?
Than one pic can be porn for one and safe for an other. I must be missing something.
Intent
Was the picture taken for sexual intent?
Security camera taking a video of a topless 15 year old intent was not produce a pornographic image.
You as the security guard saving the picture of later…your intent is to make it sexual.
Now if you saved the picture because you needed to figure out which store the topless 15 year old was by. Your intent is to not make it sexual so that would be fine.
You make sense, and I agree, but until kids are no longer jailed or put on sex offender lists for innocent sexting, I’m not going to assume US police officers and the US justice system being as reasoned as you are
Does “in a sexual context” have a falsifiable definition? I mean, here’s an article from the American Bar Association journal about a man who was arrested and deported for “child sexual abuse” for having photos printed of himself kissing his infant daughter after a bath.
The accuser was the photo lab tech. After the man was arrested and deported, his wife was arrested, their child was removed from them, then the investigation took the whole roll of film into consideration and found there was no child abuse, this was photographic evidence of loving parents caring for their child. “Sexual context” indeed.
I envision a future where a business owner puts up security cameras around his shop, those security cameras send their video to “The Cloud,” an underage girl walks by topless in view of those video cameras, as is her legal right to do so, a closed-source unauditable CSAM detection algorithm running on “The Cloud” flags the video as CSAM, and the business owner gets arrested, his business and/or home destroyed or even killed before an investigation determines no wrongdoing. Because we put the time for reasonableness after the bodies have cooled. We check to see if it’s a false positive after the “arrest” has been made. THAT’s the ultimate problem I have here.
I mean that’s alot of effort to go through when they could just as easily plant CSM on someone if they wanted to. I understand the paranoia people have, but there are easier ways to fuck someone’s life up.
You are sexualizing nudity. This is the bulk of the problem.
- am I the one doing that? And 2. Is it the bulk of the problem?
Me personally, I have no particular need for legislated prudishness. I don’t see much of a difference between the Taliban requiring women to wear a headscarf than whatever red state requiring women to wear a top. A lot of that nonsense is done to enforce a particular religion, and I personally want all religions to be thrown in the toilet with all the other worthless assgarbage.
There was a point in time when things such as bikinis and miniskirts were seen as scandalously immodest. The people who saw them that way are mostly dead now and we can move on, which is what will ultimately happen here. Some women will start going topless to the beach, the newspapers will write some stories about it, there’ll be some arrests, there will be some court cases, there will be some laws passed, and then it’ll settle in as just a thing people do sometimes.
The problem I have is that I think people with cameras are going to be punished for incidentally filming topless girls in ways they’re not for incidentally filming topless boys. Shall I illustrate with an example?
Consider this video of a walking tour of Panama City Beach, Florida. . There are a lot of videos like this, tours of various places around the world, they’re filmed in public places, often from streets, sidewalks etc. There’s a lengthy segment where the cameraperson walks down the beach and records several boys and men without shirts on. The video is on Youtube, uncensored and monetized. No one anywhere has a problem with this because we categorically do not consider male barechestedness to be nudity.
The argument here is women and girls should be allowed to be barechested anywhere men and boys are. Okay, so the instant we make that change, we also need to change the rules that say it’s not okay to see, photograph, record or broadcast barechested women and girls. It needs to be equally okay to upload pictures of barechested women and girls to Youtube without censor bars or blurs. Because then it becomes “when he does it it’s not nudity, when she does it, it’s not considered nudity but it is still in fact nudity.” You don’t get to require people in public to avert their gaze.
No (s)he’s not, this is VERY pragmatic. US police officers love pushing their authority up your rear end given the chance, and if you even accidentally recorded a topless minor, you could be in for.some fun.
There is no such thing as child porn as porn requires consent, it’s called child sexual exploitation materials.
The term “child” is ageist, the preferred term is temporally different.
In America, here in France is a right nationwide ✊
I assume it’s because France is a sane country.
Tits are not sex organs.
Anything can be a sex organ if you’re kinky enough.
Women being topless is legally allowed literally everywhere in Canada.
And if you’re not comfortable with people seeing you topless, just head further north, where there’s no people anymore
I’m guessing toplessness gets rarer as it gets colder, long before you run out of people.
Or as we Brits (of any gender) might say: “I’m freezing me tits off”
I’m in a very far southern area in Canada, and I’m here to report, it’s not something that happens here either.
So heading further north, let’s see, more rare than “I have never witnessed nor heard from anyone who witnessed it”… Uhhh. I feel like this is like dividing by zero.
It just doesn’t happen.
The fact is, it should be legal. It’s sexist if it’s not legal. Whether anyone chooses to exercise the right to do it, is an entirely different matter.
Totally agree, I was just reiterating what the previous commenter said - if someone doesnt like toplessness then they can just go where there’s no people <or where it’s cold>. Not really a serious comment. 😅
amendment the constitution. the right to bare tiddies
everything is speech including my nuts
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It’s not what you said. You’re allowed to have preferences and you’re allowed to have your own beliefs about modesty, and to be with someone that shares in those beliefs. It’s the way you said it that reveals shitty attitude towards women. You imply that all women should act in accordance to your beliefs and that they are somehow lesser for not being up to your wifey material standards. The world doesn’t need conform to you. You’re weirdly judgy and you’ll probably get mad that others are judging you and your opinion but you can’t be shitty and not expect people to be shitty back.
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We found an incel in the wild, holy fuck. Just as pathetic as we had been led to believe!
Incel with a family… please explain???
Calling women females is at best weird and insensitive for example.
I got big time Ferengi vibes from that comment.
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Yeah ofc females is an issue. We have the word “women” which is more specific and less loaded.
And no, tits aren’t sexual by essence. No body parts are and it’s all social constructs.
- Peoples who don’t traditionally cover their chests don’t tend to sexualize breasts either.
- At some point in France, ankles used to be sexualised. It seems silly now, doesn’t it?
Plus lil kids tend to already see lots of tits since they feed on them.
Yes I am weird but I’m also right 😉
The word females is an issue
We have this neat little concept called “women” that is specific to humans and also refers to a social role.
Using “female” is - by opposition - quite dehumanizing.
but if they got their tits out in public in-front of lil kids…. Thats ok???
First and foremost, kids spent their first few monthes suckling on tits. They kinda know what they look like. Or should breastfeeding women hide their breast from their infants? 🤣
Then sexualising parts of the human body is a social construct:
- Peoples who don’t usually cover their chests don’t tend to sexualise breasts either.
- At some point it was considered inappropriate to show your ankles for a woman. It seems silly now doesn’t it?
So since human breasts (and any body part by extension) aren’t intrinsically sexual, there should be no issue showing them to anyone, kids included.
(Otoh I am obv not condoning any interactions with any kind of sexual intent with minors or young adults with a significant age gap)
Youre weird af
I am but I am also right 😉
females
They can’t find partners because MEN ARE AWFUL. Men (especially young men) are swinging so hard into fascism. Meanwhile, women are swinging the other way; or maybe standing still while the Overton window is dragged away from them. If you are looking for a man under 30, and you are not also a man under 30, you are fucked.
You might have just as well pointed at all the young fascists who can’t find tradwives because they are so fucking toxic. Blaming women is arbitrary.
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[blames women]
[hears counterpoint]
Ahh yes the man blaming has begun
and you wonder how we all know you’re fragile and misogynistic.
The post is about women showing their tits try and keep up here! You are all over the place!
By your own arguments, women don’t actually behave like that – going topless in public. And you know damn well that most women don’t have OF accounts. And yet we can see a massive swing in young men’s behaviour all over the world recently. Is it because they are men? Is it a coincidence that they are men and behaving badly? I don’t fucking know, but it’s a thing that is happening, and all you have in response is an attempt to deny reality.
Take a look at this data.
NDP is the leftist party. CPC is the right-wing party. PCP is the far-right racist party. Look at the difference between men under 30 and women under 30. This is a real thing that is really happening. It isn’t because of OF. It isn’t because of being topless. It’s because of a profound difference of values. Deal with it.
Link pls
https://www.ekospolitics.com/index.php/2024/08/conservative-party-experiences-largest-decline-since-pierre-poilievre-assumed-leadership/ Reverse image search exists, you know
PS: I date men and women. Where’s your insight into dating men coming from? Sitcoms?
You date men??? I thought they were awful???
Calm down, take your pill 🤣
Ableism.
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Incel detected
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Just because you still live in Mommy and Daddy’s basement, doesn’t mean you have a family. More like, a family is still stuck with you!
My family meaning my wife and kid. How can I be an incel if some one can explain it to me. They say incel and dont know what it means lol
Incel has moved in English from “involutary celibate” to mysoginistic.
I’m not saying you are but you sure speak like one…
No it has not lol
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Only simps believe in the “friend zone”
It’s a mythical place neckbeards such as yourself ficticiously place yourself in
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My neckbeard grew instantly reading that post.
You should meet better men. Really fuckin bizarre take
They are all hard working family men. It don’t get better than that! Their wives dont think showing her tits in public is a good thing either.
If a woman taking her breats out in public is enough for you guys to only reduce her to only “fun” is disgusting
Ohhh I forgot you are the only person’s opinion that matters. Got it!
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Hmmm it’s almost as if men’s opinion on this matter shouldn’t matter nearly as much as women’s
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We dont want to marry a 304.
Plenty of "304"s ARE married. Sorry to disappoint.
a pandemic of single females
This is so funny to me, because single women are overall happier than married women, and for very good reasons.
This is far from being a pandemic. It’s a liberation… from shitty men like you, who insist that they’re the prize, simply because they are men. This has been a looooonnnggg time coming.
What is the “304” referring to?
Had to look it up as well, but apparently it is how you type “hoe” in a calculator upside down…
Wow. So mature
Thats why Im investing in cat supplies and box wine companies!
https://www.financialsamurai.com/the-economics-of-being-a-childless-cat-lady-or-gentleman/
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Maybe you’re not familiar with many women, but they’re definitely not single because of a lack of options
Im married to a women dummy! Now you are onto something, they are all sharing a chad that can give a fuck about them. The guys they want dont want em and just because chad bends them like a pretzel and pipes them down doesnt mean he loves them or even likes them. At 30 they hit the wall so spend those years wisely and don’t listen to other single women cause they want you as miserable as they are!
And still you are so scared you have to justify your fears. What an incel vibe.
Yeah this person is a serial troll. They will troll and argue about anything even if they are blatantly wrong and everyone knows they are wrong. They seem to have honestly nothing better to do, since almost all of their replies are trolling and hostility.
Shame the drama is so misogynistic from hes side :-/
But you’re right, I tagged him and I’ll leave it to downvotes :-) cheers!
Wow this is copypasta material here.
“wIfE mAtErIaL”
Good luck even scraping the bottom of the barrel, but I guess the Karens and the crazy ones gotta have “a breadwinner” too right I mean when you get out of moms basement and get a job.
Im already married with kids and my wife doesn’t go topless in public. Like I dont even need to tell her, she grew up with morals and all that good stuff missing in these 304!
I wonder what problems you have that you have to try to boast about your so isn’t going topless outside?
Weird.
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You’re doing it wrong then sir!
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Lol
You’ve been added to my banlist.
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We need to switch from our current American view that all nudity is sexual. If you see a someone naked doesn’t automatically make it sexual!
I mean, sure. But also need to switch from our current US American view that sexuality is bad
Are you male or female? In this case, it matters.
You see, males (for the most part) ARE attracted to breasts! It’s hard wired in our brains! Even gay friends have an obsession with boobs! We men LOVE boobs!!
If you want to go topless, I say: FUCK YEAH!!! But I feel like the disconnect comes from some people feeling violated if men stare. I’m sorry, but if there are boobs within eyeshot, I’m gonna be looking at them. I might try to hide my gaze (because I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable), but I’m gonna be checking them out. As frequently as possible. Because…boobs!!
I’m sorry if this is not the kind of response you were looking for, but…BOOBS!!
I disagree that it’s “hardwired in our brains”. It certainly has a strong cultural bias. Also, I kinda look at it like a gynologist: If you’ve seen 20 of them naked, it gets boring and you stop staring, I guess.
I’m a cis heterosexual male. I love all things about a women’s body, but I’m mature enough to not pop a boner just because I see a naked attractive woman. Like is that honestly hard for some healthy adult men?! Like if that woman and I are making sexual advances towards each, game on! Otherwise, what’s the big deal?
You are talking about culture not purely biological. Before clothing men weren’t walking around with erections all day. Same thing goes for many other cultures. The obsession with seeing anything naked is because we treat all nudity equally when it’s not. I see it as a personal control and character issue that is ingrained in western and Abrahamic religions areas.
I’m not saying I would be walking around with a boner. I’m saying I would want to look at naked breasts because I appreciate female bodies (in this case, specifically the chesticle region) no matter the shape. Are you shaming me for that?
Sure, if everyone walked around naked 24/7, it would probably be less of an issue. Do you believe that everyone walking around naked 24/7 is a viable option?
And also, you seriously believe that it is an issue ONLY with Western cultures and Abrahamic religions?! I’m starting to think you have never spoken to someone from China or Japan about their societal norms.
As long as you keep your inner monolog to yourself and are not ogling at the women I don’t see it as problematic. But you should still try to decoupling your sexual desires from non sexual situations.
On the other hand, I’m gay and breasts just don’t do anything for me. Now a guy with a decent set of pecs (but not ridiculously oversized), now we’re talking.
What’s your opinion on the Terry Crews style pec muscle jiggle?
It’s a bit much.
People need to spend a little time at a nudist resort. They’d learn real quick that naked isn’t sexual.
Idk, I feel like for some people it is and for some it isn’t.
Like tbh I’d be worried about going to a nudist resort because (despite the trope that “only people you don’t want to see go there”) if I saw a woman I was attracted to I’d be worried that it would be…uh…evident, and that seems awkward and idk if it’s like, allowed to become tumescent even if it is an uncontrollable biological response (never stopped anyone from being mad it happened before, so…)
Idk, if I saw a woman walking down the street tits akimbo, I’d definitely be more inclined to think “ayy hell yeah” in my head than not, even if it happened daily, I can’t just stop being attracted to women, ya know?
Not that I think she shouldn’t, it’s her right and I wouldn’t complain about seeing them, but I can’t control my uncontrollable biological responses of “attraction” nor what happens naturally when “attracted,” if you will (though outside of nudist resorts, it’s hidable enough because clothes.)
I’m gay. Personally, I’ve just never had trouble in situations with non-sexual nudity. I’ve been to nude beaches, about ten of my city’s World Naked Bike Ride, and of course locker rooms. Plenty of hot guys around, it’s hard not to notice, but never had the smallest issue with anything being evident. It feels like it’s largely based on the setting.
Idk I feel like that is also highly dependant on your individual body. I know guys who never become engorged (without the help of modern medicine of course), and grown ass men that have never even fell out of that teenage “random boner” phase which we all surely have at least a passing familiarity with, and everywhere in between. I’d say I’m in between, the randos are gone, but they are easily triggered in certain circumstances.
Boiling it down to a purely biological process is oversimplified. Unless you are getting aroused whenever you see an attractive person, simply removing clothing isn’t/shouldn’t be a variable. You’ve been socially conditioned to think of all nudity as sexual. Spending time in a nudist area is somewhat about decoupling nudity and sex. (yes there are those that go for the sex, and it’s kinda the leading reason.) I think the point of being human is all about control over ones self and environment. Hell humans have spent more time on this earth walking around naked than clothed. Our current views on nudity and sexuality is relatively new due to social, political, religious, and practical reasons. (you don’t want someone nude preparing large amounts of food or people in hospitals being needlessly naked for obvious reasons.) Ultimately I’m saying if you are worried about being in a public nudity area and not being able to separate the other human from their body/attractiveness, it might be something you should explore. So you can be more open to others in general.
I mean, yeah, I see an attractive (especially scantily clad or nude) woman, and I do indeed think “damn hell yeah” every single time. Yes. Been this way my entire life and I don’t see an end in sight. I mean it’s not like I’m gonna knock her over the head and drag her into my hut but will I look? Yeah. Could I get a boner (that would likely go unnoticed unless we were at the aforementioned nudist resort)? Yeah absolutely, could happen. Sure, maybe it’s been social conditioning since I was like 11 but at the same time it still “is,” sometimes people don’t think it be like it is, but it do, even if the reason for it “being” is 30+yr of social conditioning.
I think that the notion that we exist to control our environment is comforting, but hubris. We exist in our environment and absolutely do not have a control of most of it. Like in this example, I can control my reaction in that I don’t become a sex crazed rapebeast every time “titty,” but I cannot control “mmm hell yeah titty.” Frankly, I’m not sure I want to. Hell yeah titty! What is wrong with me having a sexual nature as a human after all? I’m not sure liking boobs counts as a kink really (it certainly isn’t paraphilia) but “don’t kink shame me,” really.
Sure, cavemen may have been naked and if I was raised as a caveman perhaps I’d like titty less. Buuuut it’s 2024, and I’ve been raised in this world, where I do in fact like boobs.
Really it isn’t an issue for me as far as I’m concerned, excepting my hesitancy to walk around naked myself at a nudist resort because I don’t want to possibly have an embarrassing boner. It may be an issue for people who want to walk around tits akimbo and still not have them be seen or who have a problem with me liking seeing them, but they’ve chosen to be naked in public and so a certain amount of “being seen” has to be expected.
Sorry for the late reply. I’ve had a busy few days.
I’m not saying there’s natural/biological part to seeing some who is naked outside of culture norm to do so. What I’m saying is that decoupling your sexual desires from non sexual situations is beneficial not only for you but also for society. I’m advocating for a higher understanding of what it means to be human and respecting those despite what they look like or what they are wearing. Yes all within reason. Of course no one is arguing that you would knock a women out to SA (sexual assault.) her, but there are those that don’t have that level of control. And those people use our ridiculous cultural ideas about nudity and sexuality to do such atrocities. Your stance is just the lesser form of, “what was she wearing?” “why was she in that environment, she should have known SA was a possibility.” Just because a women is walking around naked/topless does not mean she wants to be objectified. (because once you boil someone down to an object, harming them becomes much easier.) Ya have that moment of nice tits, but don’t mentally linger on it, ogle at her, or voice your desires to others. And if you see others doing the opposite chastise them. If you want to get so excited about boobs go on the internet, go to a strip club or reputable brothal, or get in a healthy relationship with someone that’ll show you their’s in a sexual manner. I fucking love women’s boobs and ass, and love smashing may face into them during consensual activities. But I can also see a naked woman and not have the first thought be sexual.
Honestly, I must respectfully disagree. Personally, I still respect someone even if I want to have sex with them (or enjoy seeing them topless, as it were), in fact if we started getting to know eachother and found out I did not respect them, I would no longer find them attractive.
I further disagree in that I think simply looking at someone and being attracted isn’t (or at least isn’t necessarily,) objectification. I think there has to be a whole lot more at play than just “oh this girl looked at my abs while my shirt was off in public, she’s objectifying me.” Even if she said “oh look at that guy’s abs” to a friend, I don’t think it’s crossed a line. Attraction isn’t necessarily a problem, what’s a problem is not taking no for an answer. Even if the first thought is sexual, so? Sex is natural, attraction is natural, it is what it is, just don’t harass people.
You could bring a towel and casually hold it in front of the happy area. Maybe people will know what’s going on but they also know you’re trying. We’re all human.
Good to know, is that like, common etiquette in all of them? Not that I’m planning on going anytime soon anyway but I guess it’s good to know just in case!
It’s not even mandatory to be nude, at least the ones I know in Germany. So you could get accustomed to it slowly. As long as you’re not staring, you’re fine.
In Sylt, a German Island, the nude and dog beaches are mixed.
Huh, good to know, I did indeed think those places were mandatory to be nude at like the resort type places. I know they specifically have “clothing optional beaches” (not in my country afaik, but still), and those I figured were optional as they say, but I may hold a misconception about the “nudist resorts” proper.
Glad the dogs can be nude on the beaches though! Lol :D
tits akimbo
They have to be pretty big and saggy to do this.
It does sound like a mildly amusing female comedy troupe though.
I agree. There’s such shame and disgust around the work of art that is the human body that really needs to be worked on.
Some of y’all should be ashamed.
Projection much?
No u!!!
True! My first thought is usually drugs without further context.
New York too. Or is it just the city?
San Francisco as well
IIRC it’s completely legal to walk around fully nude in San Francisco.
Edit: I was at work so I couldn’t look this up to post it but yeah, there’s a website dedicated to it.
Bring your own towel for the bus, please. I’m sick of sharing.
It’s certainly legal to be that one random dude sunbathing in Delores Park during the handful of days that are warm enough. The rest of San Francisco is rocking jeans and a light jacket / hoodie. That is the official Bay Area dress code.
Yup legal in NY.
But we do have cabaret laws in NYC that say you can’t dance in an establishment without a license for dancing which is super dum dum.
Reminds me of something…I think it was Stormy Daniels or some similar figure talking about her first time working in a strip club, and a local law said that nude performers had to be on a “stage,” but there were no technical specifications for said “stage” so they had small raised platforms not dissimilar to a cargo pallet for the girls to dance on near each table.
So this body freedom is ok.
All bodily freedoms, including that pesky bodily autonomy thing that some people seem to struggle to understand, should be freedoms granted by the constitution (or similar document in other countries).
We passed laws that have made things more equal here in Canada. The US should do the same.
I keep thinking about America’s obsession with freedom, and from what I see, y’all aren’t very free.
Same goes for NY.
I know this because at the college I worked at, a city public safety officer walked up to a young man who was sunbathing on campus thinking it was a woman, and told him to put his shirt back on or be charged with indecency or something. The school was outraged and had a shirtless demonstration march around town.
Did a I mention it was an all girls school?
Eh? I have definitely gone around topless in NY a couple times and wasn’t bothered over it. To be fair, it was Pride. To be extra fair, it was almost 100 and everybody was dying. I do remember a couple times on the news where they would have to remind the police in NYS that it is legal on a couple roasting summers. I am definitely not the best at keeping the bits well covered in general. Still far better up here than when I used to live in Texas.
I found this map: https://gotopless.org/topless-laws The religion behind this site seems kind of strange.
The religion behind this site seems kind of strange.
Extraterrestrials Created All Life On Earth
Let’s Build An Embassy To Welcome Them
Thats a more plausible explanation than what the big religions offer.
I like to think life crashed onto earth innitially from an astroid. Then life evolved from single cell organisms into…this.
Coincidently enough, life crashing onto earth on an astroid is exactly what the black suit symbiot was in the spiderman comics. After Spiderman got rid of it, it bonded with Eddie Brock to form Venom!
Just a different version of the same explanation
You guys stumbled upon Raëlism! A cult that originated in France. I have firsthand experience. I met a “Raelian Guide” at a convention and gave a presentation on his religion. They mention the topless stuff, and they’re also anti-genital mutilation. But they also wish to reclaim the Swastika as a symbol of peace and love.
During this presentation, the guide, in talking about reclaiming the Swastika, "it was traditionally a symbol of peace and love, but you all wouldn’t learn about that in our Jewish controlled education system. " (Word for word what he said in front of 100~ people)
They’re, uhh, Nazis.
Im all for reclaiming the swastika, but you lost me at “the Jews control…”
Oh lol, it’s the Raelians.
I’ve used this site in the past but never noticed they were out of their damn minds
Maybe they LOST their mnds?
There is a gallery, for research purposes.
Praise be
What’s an all-girls school? Like what do they do when a man applies?
Might be starting to dox myself but they have a separate campus that is mixed.
Same in Ontario.
Also legal in Ontario, Canada. A woman was arrested for walking around topless in hot weather. She was finned by police but topless men in the area were not. Ontario courts eventually rulled this was discriminatory but the provincial government did not appeal to the Supreme Court of Canada so the ruling only applies in Ontario.
Yeah despite there being a law against discrimination, the cops are obviously going to use their subjective view of things like lewd behaviour to charge topless women where they wouldn’t men.
That’s literally the law Ontario courts rulled cannot apply to topless women as it is discrimination.
On July 19, 1991, a sweltering and humid day, Gwen Jacob, a University of Guelph student, was arrested after walking down a street in Guelph, Ontario while topless after removing her shirt when the temperature was 33 °C (91 °F) and was charged with indecency under Section 173(1)(a) of the Criminal Code
Yeah. Shit, isn’t it?
ACAB
Happy about this. A scant few hours ago I had an over the fence conversation with my neighbor and neither of us were wearing shirts. It’s the ideal way to live.
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Take Oklahoma off your list because in Tulsa they will still arrest any woman who does this. Apparently they refuse to follow that law that was passed.
I know because the city made big fucking stink about it when Tulsa women started to go topless when it was found to be legal. So they passed and ordinance making it illegal within city limits at public spaces so practically everywhere.
Yeah, this is effectively illegal in every conservative state.
Yeah, this is effectively illegal in every conservative state.
It’s because y’all qaeda hates women.
de facto vs de jure
Have there been any lawsuits about that? Surely someone has done it so they could then sue the city right?
I bet they would charge them with “Creating a public disturbance.”
That’s what the cop who told me in Indiana, “Sure, you can wash your car at a public car wash while having a pistol in view; it’s not illegal. But I’ll arrest you and put you in jail for ‘creating a public disturbance’ in less than a heartbeat”. And, no, he wasn’t joking.
It’s also legal in British Columbia, Canada and it has been since 2000
In Washington state, you can just be nude. As long as you are not doing anything to be “obscene”.
Oregon too, last I knew at least.
This is, in fact, what makes Portland’s annual naked bike ride event possible.
Naked siblings, through and through.
What are you doing, step-city?
Whipping out my Oregon
