• manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      To place Russian communism and Nazi-fascism on the same moral plane, in that both would be totalitarian, is superficial at best, fascism at worst. Whoever insists on this equation may well consider himself a democrat, in truth and in the bottom of his heart he is in fact already a fascist, and certainly only in a hypocritical and insincere way will he fight fascism, while reserving all his hatred for communism.

      • Thomas Mann
      • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        NO U

        Stunning. Incredible take.

        Also they said fascism, not nazi-fascism. Tankies aren’t nazis. They excuse completely different genocides than the holocaust.

      • Butt Pirate@reddthat.com
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        3 months ago

        REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

        Yes very well articulated. He even managed to use democrat as an insult. Stunning and brave.

      • Railcar8095@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        They said tankies, not Russian communism.

        Everybody knows russian communism is marginally better than fascism, except those who survived it and fascistly say it’s as bad.

        • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          There’s no such thing as Russian communism. They never were communist and never will be communist. They liked the word communist. Or at least saying it a lot. They liked also pretend that it was their aspiration to become communist. But no Marxist leninist government has ever or will ever achieve communism. But they will ruin its name with their hypocritical Behavior.

          There is a difference between a fascist and a Marxist leninist. But they are both authoritarian. So it isn’t massive. And if you cross the end group in either one your life is forfeit.

      • 🦄🦄🦄@feddit.org
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        3 months ago

        It’s true because Thomas said it?

        Edit: Nice downvotes but I would actually like to know his reasoning.

    • Grayox@lemmy.ml
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      3 months ago

      Tankies are not fascist, they are just willing to do whatever it takes to defend the socialist revolution.

      • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Such as justifying capitalist oligarchs that pretend to be socialists like Putin and Xi.

        Actually, Putin doesn’t even pretend to be socialist. He’s pretty unashamedly capitalist. Tankies love the guy anyway.

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          3 months ago

          Funny how the self-proclaimed vanguard of the radical left are just incoherent anti-western reactionaries wearing Marxism like a fig leaf, isn’t it? Like, I’m all for breaking down the current neoliberal capitalist hegemony, but you’ve gotta have a hole in your head to want to replace it with a literal crime syndicate masquerading as a government or an oppressive hyper-capitalist dictatorship with imperialistic ambitions.

            • Thrashy@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              An interesting question, with (I think) a range of viable answers, in the angels-on-pinheads sense of pure theory. I personally think the sweet spot would be a broadly social-democratic system where basic industries are socialized to varying degrees, a regulated free market exists for novel industries and goods we would think of as “discretionary spending” items, and the market regulator has the capacity to move industries gradually from the latter category towards the former as they mature and become foundational to the society and economy.

              • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                How are Marxists-Leninists preventing Social Democracy? They aren’t organized, they have no viable political parties, as far as I know, they don’t even hold any state, or federal offices. It seems your complaints are with the neoliberals that are firmly in control.

                Hate “tankies” all you want, but they are irrelevant to what is happening in America. This is punching down because people feel hopeless while facing a Trump re-election. It is unproductive and detrimental to building the unified coalition needed to fight fascism.

                • Thrashy@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  Are you confusing my argument that “tankies are useful idiots for authoritarianism whose actions have no relationship with their professed values” to imply that they’re somehow in the driver’s seat on anything? Or hell, that they’re even sincere Marxists?

      • mashbooq@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Tankies, just like other fascists, are willing to do whatever it takes to gain and keep power, including pretending to support socialism

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        3 months ago

        If I was to give this point of the benefit of the doubt (which, to be clear, I don’t) what you’re saying is that tankies are accelerationists. And I get it, to an extent – a comfortable middle class isn’t going to be concerned about the depredations of the right until they start to find themselves in the crosshairs – but the last time fascists got their way in the world, more than 73 million people died. Arguing, in effect, that the aftermath of another world war will be better for the survivors is a… challenging point to defend when it requires you to dismiss the deaths of a significant percentage of the world’s population, especially when those most in danger from a rising right wing are those that a supposed left-winger should most want to protect. Sacrificing religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities on the altar of a better future for religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities doesn’t sit well with me.

      • someguy3@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        You have a choice between 1) capitalism that’s free for all, fuck the earth, fuck the workers, fuck the consumer, disband the EPA, OSHA, FTC, or 2) capitalism that’s regulated, with environmental protection, worker protections, minimum wages, workplace standards, product regulations, etc. The choice should be obvious.

      • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        Such as allying with the fascists so hard that Stalin was in talks to join the axis before Barbarossa.

      • null@slrpnk.netOP
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        3 months ago

        If they’re voting for Biden then why are they saying they won’t vote for Biden and are encouraging others not to vote for Biden? 🤔

        • Fedizen@lemmy.world
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          I mean some might be fascists from like 8chan RPing as tankies. If I recall like a white republican congressman had a sockpuppet where he pretended to be a black guy.

          You have to assume a certain amount of pro-trump stuff is straight up BS

          • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Is that in the meme? In my opinion, Stalin was counter-revolutionary to Marxism:

            Thus, as Trotsky long ago foresaw, the successes of planned economy at home and the advances of the revolution abroad sharpened the internal contradictions of Soviet society, bringing them to explosive political expression against the totalitarian regime of the bureaucratic oligarchy that usurped power following the death of Lenin

            But I don’t reject what he was trying to achieve, as I don’t reject what Xi is trying in China. Don’t let Perfect be the enemy of Good.

            Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible; one should not let the struggle for perfection stand in the way of appreciating or executing on something that is imperfect but still of value.

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                3 months ago

                It can be. Capitalism as an economic system is efficient at raising industrial standards. Capitalism, as a tool for industrialization isn’t bad.

                The problem with capitalism is that it strains social relations within the system by producing inequality of wealth distribution.

                Technology-driven changes in production make new social forms possible, such that old social forms and classes become outmoded and displaced by new ones. Once, the dominant class were the land owning lords. But the new industrial system produced a new dominant class: the capitalists. source

                Capitalism isn’t evil, it’s a tool. But the social relations capitalism creates is oppressive, and will be dismantled.

      • WamGams@lemmy.ca
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        3 months ago

        Lol, which is why historically they have coalitioned with the right to murder the socialists before the socialists could take power.

      • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

        Luke 23:34