Funny how the self-proclaimed vanguard of the radical left are just incoherent anti-western reactionaries wearing Marxism like a fig leaf, isn’t it? Like, I’m all for breaking down the current neoliberal capitalist hegemony, but you’ve gotta have a hole in your head to want to replace it with a literal crime syndicate masquerading as a government or an oppressive hyper-capitalist dictatorship with imperialistic ambitions.
An interesting question, with (I think) a range of viable answers, in the angels-on-pinheads sense of pure theory. I personally think the sweet spot would be a broadly social-democratic system where basic industries are socialized to varying degrees, a regulated free market exists for novel industries and goods we would think of as “discretionary spending” items, and the market regulator has the capacity to move industries gradually from the latter category towards the former as they mature and become foundational to the society and economy.
How are Marxists-Leninists preventing Social Democracy? They aren’t organized, they have no viable political parties, as far as I know, they don’t even hold any state, or federal offices. It seems your complaints are with the neoliberals that are firmly in control.
Hate “tankies” all you want, but they are irrelevant to what is happening in America. This is punching down because people feel hopeless while facing a Trump re-election. It is unproductive and detrimental to building the unified coalition needed to fight fascism.
Are you confusing my argument that “tankies are useful idiots for authoritarianism whose actions have no relationship with their professed values” to imply that they’re somehow in the driver’s seat on anything? Or hell, that they’re even sincere Marxists?
My guy… I am trying to point out here that the mentality of “I feel hopeless about the current situation, so I’m going to agitate to throw it to a guy whose whole platform is ‘I’m gonna make everything so much worse!’ because that will somehow ultimately make things better” is pushing for an outcome that puts literal millions of vulnerable people in actual, immediate, mortal danger. In fact, tankies and others on the left making the argument that there’s no difference between Biden and Trump can only be making that argument from a place of privilege, because for anybody belonging to the many vulnerable minority groups that the far right intend to target if Trump wins again (nevermind anybody that would be negatively impacted by the geopolitical effects of Trump abandoning NATO, among other things) the difference is fucking stark, and you’d have to be far removed from any of those groups to think otherwise.
If I was to give this point of the benefit of the doubt (which, to be clear, I don’t) what you’re saying is that tankies are accelerationists. And I get it, to an extent – a comfortable middle class isn’t going to be concerned about the depredations of the right until they start to find themselves in the crosshairs – but the last time fascists got their way in the world, more than 73 million people died. Arguing, in effect, that the aftermath of another world war will be better for the survivors is a… challenging point to defend when it requires you to dismiss the deaths of a significant percentage of the world’s population, especially when those most in danger from a rising right wing are those that a supposed left-winger should most want to protect. Sacrificing religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities on the altar of a better future for religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities doesn’t sit well with me.
You have a choice between 1) capitalism that’s free for all, fuck the earth, fuck the workers, fuck the consumer, disband the EPA, OSHA, FTC, or 2) capitalism that’s regulated, with environmental protection, worker protections, minimum wages, workplace standards, product regulations, etc. The choice should be obvious.
I mean some might be fascists from like 8chan RPing as tankies. If I recall like a white republican congressman had a sockpuppet where he pretended to be a black guy.
You have to assume a certain amount of pro-trump stuff is straight up BS
Is that in the meme? In my opinion, Stalin was counter-revolutionary to Marxism:
Thus, as Trotsky long ago foresaw, the successes of planned economy at home and the advances of the revolution abroad sharpened the internal contradictions of Soviet society, bringing them to explosive political expression against the totalitarian regime of the bureaucratic oligarchy that usurped power following the death of Lenin
But I don’t reject what he was trying to achieve, as I don’t reject what Xi is trying in China. Don’t let Perfect be the enemy of Good.
Achieving absolute perfection may be impossible; one should not let the struggle for perfection stand in the way of appreciating or executing on something that is imperfect but still of value.
It can be. Capitalism as an economic system is efficient at raising industrial standards. Capitalism, as a tool for industrialization isn’t bad.
The problem with capitalism is that it strains social relations within the system by producing inequality of wealth distribution.
Technology-driven changes in production make new social forms possible, such that old social forms and classes become outmoded and displaced by new ones. Once, the dominant class were the land owning lords. But the new industrial system produced a new dominant class: the capitalists. source
Capitalism isn’t evil, it’s a tool. But the social relations capitalism creates is oppressive, and will be dismantled.
Tankies are not fascist, they are just willing to do whatever it takes to defend the socialist revolution.
If you’re willing to do “whatever it takes” including instituting fascism, you’re a fascist.
Such as justifying capitalist oligarchs that pretend to be socialists like Putin and Xi.
Actually, Putin doesn’t even pretend to be socialist. He’s pretty unashamedly capitalist. Tankies love the guy anyway.
Funny how the self-proclaimed vanguard of the radical left are just incoherent anti-western reactionaries wearing Marxism like a fig leaf, isn’t it? Like, I’m all for breaking down the current neoliberal capitalist hegemony, but you’ve gotta have a hole in your head to want to replace it with a literal crime syndicate masquerading as a government or an oppressive hyper-capitalist dictatorship with imperialistic ambitions.
What would you replace it with?
An interesting question, with (I think) a range of viable answers, in the angels-on-pinheads sense of pure theory. I personally think the sweet spot would be a broadly social-democratic system where basic industries are socialized to varying degrees, a regulated free market exists for novel industries and goods we would think of as “discretionary spending” items, and the market regulator has the capacity to move industries gradually from the latter category towards the former as they mature and become foundational to the society and economy.
How are Marxists-Leninists preventing Social Democracy? They aren’t organized, they have no viable political parties, as far as I know, they don’t even hold any state, or federal offices. It seems your complaints are with the neoliberals that are firmly in control.
Hate “tankies” all you want, but they are irrelevant to what is happening in America. This is punching down because people feel hopeless while facing a Trump re-election. It is unproductive and detrimental to building the unified coalition needed to fight fascism.
Are you confusing my argument that “tankies are useful idiots for authoritarianism whose actions have no relationship with their professed values” to imply that they’re somehow in the driver’s seat on anything? Or hell, that they’re even sincere Marxists?
Removed by mod
My guy… I am trying to point out here that the mentality of “I feel hopeless about the current situation, so I’m going to agitate to throw it to a guy whose whole platform is ‘I’m gonna make everything so much worse!’ because that will somehow ultimately make things better” is pushing for an outcome that puts literal millions of vulnerable people in actual, immediate, mortal danger. In fact, tankies and others on the left making the argument that there’s no difference between Biden and Trump can only be making that argument from a place of privilege, because for anybody belonging to the many vulnerable minority groups that the far right intend to target if Trump wins again (nevermind anybody that would be negatively impacted by the geopolitical effects of Trump abandoning NATO, among other things) the difference is fucking stark, and you’d have to be far removed from any of those groups to think otherwise.
Tankies don’t give a fuck about socialism.
Tankies, just like other fascists, are willing to do whatever it takes to gain and keep power, including pretending to support socialism
If I was to give this point of the benefit of the doubt (which, to be clear, I don’t) what you’re saying is that tankies are accelerationists. And I get it, to an extent – a comfortable middle class isn’t going to be concerned about the depredations of the right until they start to find themselves in the crosshairs – but the last time fascists got their way in the world, more than 73 million people died. Arguing, in effect, that the aftermath of another world war will be better for the survivors is a… challenging point to defend when it requires you to dismiss the deaths of a significant percentage of the world’s population, especially when those most in danger from a rising right wing are those that a supposed left-winger should most want to protect. Sacrificing religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities on the altar of a better future for religious, ethnic, and sexual minorities doesn’t sit well with me.
You have a choice between 1) capitalism that’s free for all, fuck the earth, fuck the workers, fuck the consumer, disband the EPA, OSHA, FTC, or 2) capitalism that’s regulated, with environmental protection, worker protections, minimum wages, workplace standards, product regulations, etc. The choice should be obvious.
Such as allying with the fascists so hard that Stalin was in talks to join the axis before Barbarossa.
If they’re voting for Biden then why are they saying they won’t vote for Biden and are encouraging others not to vote for Biden? 🤔
I mean some might be fascists from like 8chan RPing as tankies. If I recall like a white republican congressman had a sockpuppet where he pretended to be a black guy.
You have to assume a certain amount of pro-trump stuff is straight up BS
Stalinism wasn’t counter-revolutionary?
Is that in the meme? In my opinion, Stalin was counter-revolutionary to Marxism:
But I don’t reject what he was trying to achieve, as I don’t reject what Xi is trying in China. Don’t let Perfect be the enemy of Good.
You’re implying that more capitalism is progress.
It can be. Capitalism as an economic system is efficient at raising industrial standards. Capitalism, as a tool for industrialization isn’t bad.
The problem with capitalism is that it strains social relations within the system by producing inequality of wealth distribution.
Capitalism isn’t evil, it’s a tool. But the social relations capitalism creates is oppressive, and will be dismantled.
Lol, which is why historically they have coalitioned with the right to murder the socialists before the socialists could take power.
project 2025 is not a socialist revolution
Luke 23:34
Part my ramen and I’ll fight you, mate.