As the situation in regard to report immigrants escalated, and the army may be used against Americans, do you believe there’s a way back, or is this a one way street to civil war?
Locked for rule 6
Two of my state’s democratic politicians were shot this morning, one killed, in a targeted assassination. I think it’s already started.
What sfate?
Minnesota. I feel sick.
Yeah I found all the articles, America is over folks and the protest are about to get ugly.
All my life I have watched movies where the all American hero stands up to the baddie, the facist, the bully, the greedy. I seen so many celebs virtue signal to their political values and causes that help others. The whole gun thing, we keep them to protect our rights.
But when there is an actual threat the passive acceptance is astounding. It’s quite bizarre to see. My brain can’t reconcile the USA I have watched vrs the USA I am seeing.
Will it be civil war, the old logic says yes. What I am seeing tells me no.
I learned a long time ago that in the USA the packaging is always far greater than the content.
And it seems to apply to everything, be it political, to personal conversations (example: greeting someone with hey how are you, but actually getting an answer to that question is not interesting, just reply with “great, you?”). Or from people praising their city … but totally glossing over the very large populace of homeless living under bridges.
“We have the best medical care system in the world” … but that it’s only for the top 5% and the rest actually get to see/pay the insane bills is quickly ignored.
And in movies/television it is also very much present. So, yeah, I don’t expect much from the folks shouting about their amendments or hugging their guns under the pretense of fighting off a dictatorship…The US is number ONE…in bullshit.
If you’re a Trump-loving magat, then you only care about virtue signaling and performative bullshit when Hollywood celebrities, Democrats, and online socialists do it…and completely ignore that Trump-lovers and Trump himself love performative bullshit and solely prefer a different – crueler and more toxic – variety.
It’s an aesthetic land full of people who see nothing wrong with screwing over any number of others as long as it leads to fortune, fame, power, or the grand trifecta. Morals, values, and virtues have long since been thrown out as fictional concepts unworthy of any potentially damaging action to uphold or analysis over whether they were lost in any exchange.
yeah, only Americans are narcissistic pieces of shit. nobody else in the world does it, and if they do they learned it from Americans.
America is a vile cesspool of indecent human beings that are a mockery of what non-americans are really like.
am I doing this right?
/s
I’m not indicating that narcissism and lack of empathy are exclusively American things, but instead that it’s a pervasive and near dominant mentality in America.
“Greed is good” is practically our country’s mantra. The golden rule here is whoever has the gold makes the rules (quite literally).
The golden rule here is whoever has the gold makes the rules (quite literally).
That’s not an American thing. It’s a human thing.
it’s quite literally been the rule since wealth and power have been synonymous.
This does not have the seeds of a civil war.
Look back to 1861. The US was split between slave and free states. Both regions had different economic models that were in conflict. The slavers of the south controlled most of the nation’s capital. The slaves were worth more than all the railroads and foundries of the north. They had oligarchic control of the southern states.
When Lincoln was elected, it was the first time that an outspoken abolitionist became president. It was clear, that the demographics of the US were changing in a way that would lose their power and status. So they started a war.
Those weren’t the uneducated racists that you find waving confederate flags today.
The US has seen presidential lawlessness before (notably Andrew “Trail of Tears” Jackson). It also has seen lawlessness by state politicians (eg Harry F. “Massive Resistance” Byrd or Governor Orval “Blood will run in the Streets” Faubus).
The only way I could see a civil war is, if Trump directly threatened the Middle Class and/or the Wealthy Elites.
Yes. But the part that non-violence allows is that we can set it up to fight on our terms rather than theirs.
They want gun battles. Charging into enemy formations. Units vs units. They want to make themselves heros of battle. But they will do it only if they convince themselves they will always win.
That’s not how the modem organized military can be defeated. They will be defeated by guerilla tactics. Assassinations. Sabotage. Economics. The first thing that needs to happen is for the population to witness just how much they support each other.
The DNC may be useless, but as long as they keep MAGA thinking the opposition is weak, they will massively underestimate their own vulnerability.
I don’t know. People have found ICE facilities and are harassing them there and while they are out on operations. That is great but the Trump administration is likely going to keep over-escalating the response while continuing to ignore laws. He is a “results for my side at any cost” person.
No, it’s going towards a civil war, as it seems the pieces are in place, heavy polarization, federal government overstepping their control over states control. This is all similar to how the first civil war started, polarization between the north and south, Dredd Scott decision stating that slaves in the north can not be freed, basically leading the way to the fugitive slave act, which is when bounty hunters from the south were going north to pick up slaves, northern were of course going to protect them, then we had Buchanan just not give a shit and basically going out the government can not do anything about state seceding even though they cannot led the pieces that led to the civil war. Buchanan was also sympathetic to slave owners.
All of this can be similar to today, trump can be seen as Buchanan setting the pieces up for the civil war, ICE taking immigrants away, using scummy tactics like taking them from courts or their immigration appointments, taking people from their homes even in states that are sanctuaries basically overstepping states ground, basically the opposite of bunchanan as he just said the federal government can not do anything but trump is doing everything he can to take over the federal government. This is the groundwork for it and while people think the US army is powerful, just remember the 2nd amendment was created as the last check if the federal government goes tyrannical, likely we’ll start seeing the civil war slowly start with 2026 elections being disputed, since trump party may lose really hard due to tariffs.
Gonna need A LOT more. This already happened in 2022 for BLM. An existential threat needs to exist for a majority of the population before people will be willing to fight. It’s California. Too comfortable.
Would be nice if they could taste a bit of destabilization they impose on so many other countries, for a change.
Civil war is when one governing body fights another governing body in one country.
So civil war could be between Republicans and Democrats or the Marines and the army.
What we have now is civilians protesting a oppressive tyrannical fascist dictator wannaby.
So no. No civil war.
Eventually, yes. I do think so. Not directly from the current wave of immigration, tariffs, and other batshit crazy Trump stuff though.
The underlying wealth inequality, surveillance state, media exploitation, and corrupt politics does eventually lead to conflict though, IMO. I don’t really say a way around that, unless the fundamental access to services and “represent the people” actually becomes representing the people.
Tired exploited people with few/no recourse will take action eventually.
I think from a historical view - as much as I can muster - the situation will escalate until one side can gain and maintain the upper hand. I dont see any one way streets here. It wont just go back to normal if that makes sense.
Nope. They’re headed straight towards jackboot dictatorship.
If nothing else, Trump and his henchmen are proving day after day that the Americans talking big about their god-given Second Amendment right that keeps the government in check as the reason to own so many firearms and overlook so many deaths by firearm was basically a pretense: this is literally the scenario when they swore right and left they would exercise it and they aren’t.
All a bunch of phoneys, is what they are. And they’re getting the nasty dictatorship they richly deserve.
Most of the people that talked up the 2nd amendment and that bought a bunch of guns are cheering on what’s happening, so they won’t fight against it. They’re not phonys they’re part of the dictatorship. It seems they like when other people get hurt, as long as its not them.
They just don’t know history enough to realize, eventually it will be them. Just give it time. The only people that are truly safe from a dictorship are the dictator. Even his inner circle, a dictator will turn on a dime if they perceive disloyalty, or fear being usurped, or you made them look weak by doing a bad job, etc. Literally no one is safe but the dictator, that’s generally why everyone is scared shitless all the time during times of dictatorship. No one is safe.
Yeah. I feel like the concept of America is just completely manufactured. Personified by the ignorant blowhards who LARP as heros but only fight when backed by the MIC (hold technological superiority against an inferior force), the Christian taliban who hate jesus and everything he stood for, and the oligarchs who got rich off the backs of immigrants; responsible for the populations mental illness epidemic.
It’s quite obvious that the average American will roll over and let the Stalin, Putin, Mao, Xi or Hitler force them into absolute supplication before they bother with the minor inconvenience of protest or strikes, while being stupid enough to believe they represent freedom and justice. The only people willing to oppose the psychopaths are too liberalised to accept that they won’t be stopped without violence, or too fragmented to provide meaningful resistance. A massive general strike would work, but that would require more cooperation and discipline than Americans have ever displayed, and the mental illness is too strong.
I hope I’m wrong.
Most of what you wrote is sadly true for any country.
cheering on what’s happening, so they won’t fight against it.
Don’t you think this cheering has already lost some of it’s volume?
Mixed.
Some stopped cheering. Others are getting louder.
As if some private guns would be any sort of fair fight against the full force of the US military anyway
As if an organised military of any kind has any hope of winning a guerrilla war in one of the largest, most populous, and most heavily armed countries on earth.
The ability of the American people to defeat the American army in a revolution is solely dependent on their willingness to take casualties. It’s been shown time and again that a massively superior army like the US really isn’t able to deal with a war where enemy combatants are also the civilian population. An exception is Israel in Gaza, where they’ve decided to just level everything to the ground, and massacre the civilians.
Yeah I love how other countries like to mock the US for Vietnam, yet for some reason seem to forget about it when it comes to “us military would dominate their population”
I’m sorry but some random Douchebag from Omaha or some small town in Texas doesn’t know jack OR shit about the countryside around the Sierra or Appalachian mountains, and all the fancy tools at their disposal didn’t help them much when they had to search through desert for 20 years chasing down “terrorists”
Sure, the US couldn’t beat vietman because they didn’t know the terrain and would never be able to convince the people they’re shooting at its for their own good.
But that totally doesn’t apply when it’s the US fighting against itself, somehow.
The enemy is both weak and strong, I guess.
The American public lost their minds at 2k casualties in 2001. I doubt they have the determination for a civil war.
American soldiers surely wouldn’t turn against their own civilian compatriots en masse, right? 😔
Some would not, others just do what they’re told.
And some would be happy to do that. That group might not be large, but these fuckers are usually officers, not common soldiers, so they have more power.
American Founding Fathers were not dumb - a lot of them had spent time in the 18th century Europe, which was an interesting place at the time. Full of wars and rebellions. Great for analyzing pros and cons of political systems, awful for an average guy. Keeping the general population armed was a good idea in the context.
What they failed to predict is the identity politics. That being armed or not will become a show of loyalty to your group rather than defense against tyranny. With those needing it the most being the ones to reject it.
The US founding fathers were vehemently against a standing army, because it could be used for exactly this very thing: seizing control from cities and states. That’s why they only wanted militias.
You’re wrong about the founders not understanding identity politics; I recommend you read through George Washington’s farewell address. It’s is lengthy, for sure, but it explicitly warns Americans about the danger of unchecked fealty to a political party and the promulgation of a politics of identity versus national interest and unity.
The founders knew our democracy would be repeatedly tested by enemies foreign and domestic (almost like they included that in the Constitution for a reason) they simply hoped we would be educated enough to see when we’re being manipulated, and faithful enough to the country’s ideals to defend it. We’ll see if they’re right.
Your second paragraph was considered a feature in the context of the time
Oh hell no. Fuck off with this.
Phony? Try most of them are MAGA. They like how things are going. Fascists and racists, most of them.
And why is that? Because my Democrat party and the vast majority of my fellow Democrats are anti-gun.
Therefore, almost all the “2a” people you refer to like all the jack booted thuggery going on, and there aren’t enough of the rest of us to make a difference: One protester with a gun gets shot and or arrested. You need twenty+. And that’s before Shitler sent in the now-dishonored USMC. wtf are even 20 armed civilians supposed to do against trained military combat units?
So go ahead and STFU. If any of my fellow US Democrats are reading this, Fuck You for being part of the problem.
wtf are even 20 armed civilians supposed to do against trained military combat units?
Ask Vietnam.
thanks for the support
you just sound bloodthirsty
I think we are still trying peaceful protests and hoping upcoming elections will change things. There is little appetite to escalate to violence yet.
It is inevitable that ice and ice barbie will encounter violent opposition when they raid a wrong address sometime soon. But it will be localized to that location.
Most of the radical groups of self armed wackos are working for ice now and reveling in their racism.
Which upcoming elections would that be? The ones after the guy currently in power who already tried to overthrow the government once and who can’t legally be reelected peacefully steps out?
Sure, wait for that to happen! What could go wrong with giving him years to prepare for exactly that?
House of Reps are in 2026, and there are all sorts of state and local things so I assume they are meaning all of that.
If shit starts flipping blue everywhere, the R’s will either back off and play defense or escalate and have a lot more opposition. Hopefully more opposition?
What a useless, whiny attitude to have.
Eh? Do you somehow not know the definition of “whining”?
There are elections every 6 months or so. All that has to flip are 2 or 3 seats and the entire congress flips.
I don’t think Americans have the stomach for a civil war, had a Trump been elected in France, they would have crippled the country long ago.
