Damn leftist, they ruined leftism!
Based meme. The left is fucked
Only if we don’t change, and that includes you and me
I believe both sides are fucked on a similar level here
I’m a species-specific eater. I don’t eat beef or pork because I like pigs and cows they are adorable and I wish them all the best.
I do eat lamb, because sheep are idiots and I got kicked by one as a child. For similar reason, I would also eat horse if it was commercially available.
Chickens would eat me if our sizes were reversed so they are fair game too. If you didn’t want to get farmed you shoulda stayed T-Rex sized.
I eat mushrooms, but I am a little apprehensive about it because I know they are smarter than humans
I was about to disagree with you, but then I realized that some humans are certainly dumber than a mushroom
Some? Around a third I would say.
I’ve heard goats are like mushrooms 👍
horse is good eating. good for the climate too, since horses require so much maintenance. if we eat’em, they’re gone.
How about gooses or ducks? Or deer? Or rabbits? I’m strangely intrigued.
I have no quarrel with these animals
You have never been close to a goose than.
Never been close to a tiger either.
Valid comparison.
Nothing worse to people on Lemmy than another person with a SLIGHTLY different world view.
The only thing worse than a heathen is a heretic!
The People’s Front Of Judea
SPLITTERS!
Not just Lemmy sadly
Don’t act like you know… youre views are vastly inferior to mine.
A different worldview? In THIS economy??
To be clear, I believe vegan/vegetarian is the morally correct position even though I do eat meat. My point is that if we worked together we could cause more good in the world than we do by fighting.
Getting the average omnivore down to the recommended 6-8 ounces of meat per day would make a tremendous difference on its own. I really didn’t know how much excess protein I was consuming until I made some vegan and vegetarian friends.
Isn’t the recommended amount a lot lower than 6-8 ounces? It’s like 500g or 5 ounces per week.
Woah 200g of meat a day is well sufficient… That is basically my max amount since I pretty much only have meat at dinner and that’s more than a chicken breast which is the most amount of meat I’d consume at one time. I do consume quite a bit of dairy though (used to be cheese, but now for dieting reasons it’s quark yogurts, milk, etc) and a few eggs, need that protein.
But the rest is all legumes, veggies, nuts, cereals, good carbs, etc. I’d struggle to eat more meat than that even when I didn’t give a shit about my diet I think, but now that I do I also cut out all the non lean stuff so that does play a role.
Same. People literally can not comprehend that I accept whole heartedly that I believe many of the things that I do and continue to do to be immoral.
Yeah, maybe I love meat too much and I’m too weak. That has absolutely nothing to do with how I establish my moral compass.
I’d like to be a truely good person, but I’ll be goddamned if the way I do that is lowering the bar to where I already stand.
People who try to live a wholly moral life end up like Doug Fawcett
“Our adversaries are the people on the other side of the aisle. Our enemies are right here”
I’d love to reduce my regular meat intake to zero when my finances stabilize.
Isn’t or Aren’t vegetables cheaper than meat?
Edit I failed grammar 🤪
-
Calorie for calorie, no.
-
Vegetables aren’t the totality of my diet. As it stands now, vegan or vegetarian replacements for meat are more expensive than actual meat.
Where do you live for beans and lentils to be that expensive?
Depends on where you live, but sometimes tofu and tvp can be pretty cheap, plus there’s always lentils in a pinch that’s possibly some of the cheapest proteins in any given store.
The replacemets yes. But vegetarian food is so much more than just replacing meat. It’s cooking completely different meals that taste great without anything meat related. And that absolutely is cheaper that eating meat.
But vegetarian food is so much more than just replacing meat.
Sorry, I’m not in the market for a new faith.
There are valid reasons for veganism, but it’s folderol to claim it’s absolutely cheaper. For one example, sardines are fished sustainably and are very low in mercury, both because they’re basically ocean mice. They’re also all but impossible to nutritionally outperform for the price.
Obviously there are exceptions. But in general a vegetarion meal is cheaper in comparison to a meal with beef or something like that. That is true for most meats. So for an “average” meat eater it is cheaper.
Obviously there are exceptions
Do you know what “absolute” means? If so, why say it?
Who the fuck is downvoting this?
I love me some vegetarian and vegan meals that aren’t pretending to be meat. They are their own thing and are fantastic. Heck, making a bean and meat chili with more beans and skipping the meat can be just as good. A lot of Mexican food is or can easily be made vegetarian by just leaving out the mean or switching for beans.
I also love meat! But I do need to eat it less often.
It’s weird that I don’t even know if the meat or the vegan hardcores are downvoting me. This place realy has develloped a few hardcore communities that don’t care for stuff like “logic” or “having a real discussion”
-
That’s called activism purism, I call it activism puritanism. It’s, again, a very conservative way of being an activist but somehow appears in leftist groups. But I can’t shake the fact that there’s limits, anything that feels like a personal choice but impact hugely others, like vaccination.
i guess leftism has never really been abt choice. the co opting of proletarian forward ideals will always continue.
The rich don’t even have to lift a finger to divide the left.
And then, to perfectly demonstrate your point: 90% of this comments section!
This comment section is the opposite. I started nice and explaining things and people got all pissed. And you’re proving my point by further misrepresenting what happens.
Vegan here, bottom left is a very small but sometimes very loud minority.
Top left is kinda wrong because veganism is a moral position. You wouldn’t say „I personally don’t like killing people but I do respect your religious tradition of human sacrifice“ (being hyperbolic to hammer home the point).Mostly, a vegan diet is even cheaper than an omnivorous diet and where that might not be the case there’s A.) something completely wrong with the agricultural economy and B.) most vegans would agree that these problems need to be solved.
(and correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there some political quafaffel about egg prices being too high in the US? (half joke here))@[email protected] I see the point you’re trying to make (and explained in your other comment) but this is an unfair misrepresentation of vegans. I’m sure this is your perception, but it seems your perception is warped and ill informed by said small but loud minority of vegans and also other, usually intentional misrepresentation of vegans by other media.
Edit for the boneheads that rip shit out of context and are just unable of reading a text:
The loud minority is people screaming around that people should rather starve before eating animals. Most vegans usually keep to themselves and if a discussion comes to the topic of veganism explain their point like the normal people they are.Isn’t it a little weird to call vegans who say eating meat is murder a “loud minority”, and then explaining why you cannot be a vegan without saying that eating meat is murder (hyperbole or not)?
Is there something in your comment I’m missing, or is this supposed to be some self-aware joke?
Tell me, do you misrepresent what bottom left guy says on purpose?
“I don’t care if your family starves, eating eggs is literally murder!” - How can this not be represented as “Eating meat is murder!”?
Are eggs meat? And don’t you think that part „I don’t care if your family starves“ might be fucking important context?
“Are eggs meat?” - Yes, that’s what I’m saying, I’m not sure how it can be understood any other way.
Though, how can calling somebody a murderous cultist not be considered the least bit demeaning, whereas saying their family should starve is? As per “You wouldn’t say „… I do respect your religious tradition of human sacrifice“” having similar aggressive or demeaning meaning as “I don’t care if your family starves”.
Are eggs meat?" - Yes, that’s what I’m saying, I’m not sure how it can be understood any other way.
Then you’re just plain wrong. Is a woman’s unfertilized egg a baby?
Though, how can calling somebody a murderous cultist not be considered the least bit demeaning, whereas saying their family should starve is? As per “You wouldn’t say „… I do respect your religious tradition of human sacrifice“” having similar aggressive or demeaning meaning as “I don’t care if your family starves”.
You’re twisting my words like they’re players in a game with colored dots on a map.
I even stated that the sacrifice thing was a damn hyperbole. If you think.my comment is demeaning or aggressive, you didn’t read the whole fucking thing.I guess I should thank you for demonstrating how I’m twisting your words by doing the same?
“Is a woman’s unfertilized egg a baby?” <- That’s a trap? Of course a woman’s unfertilized is not a baby, nor is a fertilized one until born, since that would usually be defined as “embryo” or “fetus” (if being all pedantic). Though, a woman’s unfertilized egg is an “animal product”, as is a slice of meat.
Now, I’ve chosen to use “meat” as a synonym, or over-category, for “animal products”. I realize that this generalization might be important for some, so let me apologize for this apparently vital oversight, I’ll try to cut it out in cardboard from now on.
Regarding your statement about morals, as I’ve stated before, the hyperbole would be meaningless if the creator (of the hyperbole) wouldn’t find any truth or parallel in it.
I’ve read your statement as “No vegan would ever say: You’re eating
meatanimal products, but that’s all OK!”, just a whole lot more demeaning and in perfect spirit of the original post.And once again, to really cut it out and prevent these misunderstandings of mine, I read your statement as “Vegans will not morally lower themselves to omni standards (edit: /Ethics)”.
If this was not the intention behind your words, then I will gladly stand corrected.
where does that meat come from? From the Meat Plant or from a cut of an animal that was killed to provide that cut of meat?
That egg, if fertilized, could have been a chicken. so one could argue that the chicken was killed prematurely.
My point exactly! I don’t see where the discrepancy lies.
Maybe that calling someone a murderous cultist is not the same as saying their family should rather starve?
Maybe that calling someone a murderous cultist is not the same as saying their family should rather starve?
this shouldn’t be ones reaction anyway regardless if you are in a “murderous cultist” or not. And maybe this post was just a hyperbole and caricature of hyper militant vegans?
That would have been the first statement: “Vegan here, bottom left is a very small but sometimes very loud minority.”
That second statement (about the religious killings) was specifically for why finding compromise is not possible for regular vegans. Even if it was a hyperbole, it would be meaningless if not sincere.
And maybe this post was just a hyperbole and caricature of hyper militant vegans?
And my comment critizises this post for displaying hyper militant vegans as the norm. But everyone apparently just wants to get all railed up and shit.
You wouldn’t say „I personally don’t like killing people but I do respect your religious tradition of human sacrifice“
In most cultures killing people is significantly worse than killing animals, so this comparison doesn’t really make sense.
The point I’m trying to make is that if vegans and non vegans worked together we could lower the amount of meat we eat and reduce the suffering of animals, even if it’s not the perfect goal of zero animal product consumption. And that’s something we should all want to work towards.
In most cultures killing people is significantly worse than killing animals, so this comparison doesn’t really make sense.
It makes sense from a vegan’s perspective because the whole reason we’re vegan is that in our opinion, animals do have (morally) or should have (legally) the same rights to live and not be abused and exploited as humans do.
And again, the point of my comment is not criticizing your point but criticizing the way you try to bring it across by misrepresenting a few hardcore militant vegans as being the norm. Most vegans meanwhile applaud people who want to cut their consumption of animal products and offer them help.
Top left is kinda wrong because veganism is a moral position.
You don’t see irony here?
You’re just said in essence that vegans have a moral high ground in comparison to meat eaters. That’s precisely what bottom left represents.
I mean… If they didn’t believe veganism had a moral high ground they wouldn’t be doing it. That’s something and badgering people about how eating meat is literally murder is something else.
People don’t like being told they don’t have the high ground.
Me? I love a good wallow.
No, that is not at all everything that bottom left guy says.
I don’t want to have the same discussion twice simultaneously, so: https://discuss.tchncs.de/comment/16162457
Removed by mod
How do you know someone eats meat?
They won’t shut the fuck up about how mad at vegans they are.
A meat eater clearly made this lol
Can people please shut the fuck up about veganism for 5 seconds? Jesus christ, the dumbass infighting is why conservatives keep winning. Elon Musk and his nepo-baby “employees” are ransacking the federal government, ICE is rounding people up and trying to get neighbors to snitch on each other, several million people don’t know how much longer they’re going to be employed, and apparently we’re about to build and then subsequently bankrupt casinos in Gaza, and leftists can’t stop nitpicking over things that, yes, are important, but are the kind of thing we can slap fight over when the US isn’t on fire. I swear to god, I’m gonna start smacking people upside the head.
The right fights just as much, that’s not why you’re a loser
It’s not ‘nitpicking’, it’s literally life or death. If you don’t understand the vital importance of animal liberation you can’t understand the connections between it and colonialism or environmentalism either… then therefore it’s not ‘infighting’ it’s just fighting and you’re the dumb asshole that needs ‘smacked on the head’
You know nothing about me. I haven’t eaten meat since 1995 and I’ve been fully vegan for several years. I’ve been sharing information with people about the realities of factory farming and our current food system for literal decades. I know for a fact that way more than one person has changed their diet as a direct result of those conversations.
But when ICE is rounding people up down the street, and trans people are in my office trying to get passports and telling me they’re afraid they’re going to end up in prison and forcibly detransitioned, and my mom came home livid because some racist old fuck cornered her coworker in an elevator and demanded to know where she was from and she’s terrified because her cousin was “deported” and no one has heard from her in a week, forgive me if conversations about veganism are not my priority right now. You know who can’t be convinced to change their habits? People who are dead or in prison camps or who don’t get a choice because their diet is “whatever the food bank has this week.”
Conservatives don’t fight like this - they say they feel some type of way and then they go and vote for the person with an R no matter what. Meanwhile, liberals and leftists will hold out for a perfect candidate, fight over everything, and then turn around and act shocked when our garbage electoral system doesn’t work out in our favor.
No shit, reformism an revolution are fundamentally incompatible. Liberals and leftists are not ‘allies’ hence, its not ‘infighting’ its just fighting.
I kind of agree, but it’s funny how now we’re blaming the republican victory on the vegans, of all people.
I’m not blaming it on vegans. I’ve been vegan for years. I think more people should try it. I’m blaming it on the fact that people can’t shut up about stuff like what we’re eating long enough to be effective. Right now, there are an awful lot more people than usual in my community seeking out food banks and I don’t give a shit what they eat as long as they’re fed. I’m running a food drive and I don’t care if people bring beef stew all day.
And the people who see the word “vegan” and feel compelled to rush in to shit on the idea are equally at fault. Like, nobody asked you to come in to the conversation and start complaining about how annoying all vegans are. Or worse, posting about it out of nowhere. How is that productive?
How about people eat what they want and we can argue about the moral and environmental ramifications of those choices when we stop living in such interesting times.
To be clear, veganism is not THE issue. It’s one of many leftists can’t seem to stop arguing about long enough to make concrete changes.
Vegans poisoned our water supply, burned our crops, and delivered a plague onto our houses!
But they didn’t slaughter our livestock. Gotta give 'em that.
I haven’t seen left vs left. Only actual people on the left vs authoritarian douchenozzles that pretend to be on the left.
