The power trip / ban doesn’t bother me, but the misinformation does. They present as leftist, but flare up around US elections discouraging voter turnout via ‘bOtH siDeS’ garbage. that only ever elevates shit like MAGA.
In the linked thread, OP promotes rioting while discouraging voter turnout. My comments agreed with activism like riots, but pointed out that it’s not an either-or thing. You can riot -and- vote; and even if you don’t have it in you to riot, still do vote.
Banned.
You can see my removed comment quoted in the post after mine.
This ‘blue MAGA’ tankie shit is somehow worse than the loud-and-clear MAGA shit over on Reddit - at least those neonazis were honest about who they were.
Anywho, YSK. Spaces like r/conservative were clearly labeled and easy to avoid; [email protected] presents as a cause worth rallying around, but only until you peel up the veneer and see that they’re the same fucking thing.
Also please vote. In addition to whatever flavor of activism tickles your fancy.
Note to all: This is not the place to get on your “VOTE” soapboaxes. Stick to judging the moderation action.
And one of the main ways to judge posts is to VOTE them up or down. Hmmm.
Not in this comm. Check the sticky
Sorry, will do from now on.
Removed by mod
PTB. Everyone should be voting in this election. People like that boil all nuance down to two black and white naive takes:
- That you are either a voter OR you go out and protest. In reality there is nothing stopping you from doing both.
- That you should not vote because there is no unicorn candidate. In reality there will never be a perfect candidate.
I have voted in every election in the last 20 years, local, state, federal - and I have yet to see a candidate that I agree with completely. It will never happen. Expecting change tomorrow is a naive take. Slow incremental change is the only change I’ve seen on this planet. You are going to need to compromise on candidates, because it’s always a bad and a worse candidate, and not voting means you are okay with the worse candidate. It’s happening right now, and people are shocked pikachu of what happened in the last election. The reason is simple, people didn’t vote.
Conservatives desperately want us to not go and vote. That should really tell you everything. Does it mean you have to agree with the candidate on everything? Absolutely not. Does it mean that your morals are the same as the person you voted for? Also absolutely not. Politics is usually voting against things you don’t want than voting for things you do. People are strange complex creatures, and you’ll never find a candidate who agrees with you. (Yes, even in multiple party scenarios).
If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice
Slow incremental change is the only change I’ve seen on this planet.
Only positive progressive change is slow and incremental. Regressives and authoritarians are able to pull off change pretty fast when they realize the system is too slow to stop them and won’t punish them for wrecking everything.
That is why it is important to vote in every election to mitigate the damage they want to do.
Good correction. Legislating is slow, rolling back is fast.
Imagine handing your country to fascists because you’re too much of a little removed to engage in your own democracy. I feel so lucky to be able to vote in my country. It’s my responsibility and I am privileged to have it. It was earned by the blood of MILLIONS.
Some peoples ethics or morals prevent them from supporting genocide. Who knew? Maybe the issue is that the leaders refused to not do a genocide?
Removed by mod
deleted by creator
I’m curious as to what you replied to them, lol. Pm me?
He said “least deranged liberal. You think Kamala was gonna stop it?”
Personally, I don’t think Kamala Harris would have spent billions of dollars making oil more expensive and dismantling the assets of the US government.
What did she mean when she said she was going to have the most lethal military on the planet? Why was Liz cheny standing next to her on stage?
Death to America 👍
If Kamala had won, do you think she would have bombed iran before or after the genocide in Gaza was all wrapped up?
I don’t think anyone who ran against trump, Republican or otherwise, would be stupid enough to do what he did.
I think you’re giving Americans, republican or otherwise, too much credit. Trump isn’t the smartest American, but he’s far from the stupidest.
He’s definitely the stupidest guy to run the place
(Relatedly; we’re voting for the lesser of evils mostly because of the voting system we’re using. RTV improves on this substantially, is used in several federal elections across the country, and has reasonable appeal in many places.)
I have voted in every election in the last 20 years, local, state, federal
Has literally anything improved?
Big two I fought for were for gay marriage and health care. Gay marriage was not legal when I was growing up and we had no state sponsored healthcare. Right now we have both of those thanks to people getting out and making their voices heard. Everyone rallied behind those two things and they happened.
Now they are at risk because people have become complacent. Sinicism and complacency go hand in hand. You do that and things like Roe get repealed, and now I’m worried we’ll backslide on these issues because people don’t care anymore.
Big two I fought for were for gay marriage and health care.
Gay marriage doesn’t threaten the bourgeoisie, so it was achievable within a bourgeois democracy. Spreading RomneyCare to most—but not all—states also wasn’t a threat. Private health insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, etc. are still raking in billions.
And yet the death and destruction done by your country continues to increase. Fossil fuel production continues to increase.
Okay “Nonconfrontational” you’re obviously just wanting to stir something up, and I’m not going to give you what you want. Go find someone else.
Listen I’m glad you got your human rights recognized but do you not think the lives of tens of thousands of brown children are worth rioting in the streets until change is made? Or is it only now that colonialism abroad has become fascism at home that you give a fuck?
Wow. Your post is so reasonable, strongly in favour of rioting, correctly identifying it as better than voting, just allowing for voting. And still banned.
I’ve blocked a lot of PTB comms because of all the trolly libs calling anyone left of Schumer a tankie then whining about being banned from leftist spaces, but this is a bonkers ban. And from .world as well, not even a leftist instance. 🤷
To save folks a click:
Brace yourself for an apparently super edgy hot take:
Rioting > voting
rioting & voting > just rioting
just voting > nothing at all
Discouraging voting or rioting = supporting the status quo.
Discouraging voting or rioting = supporting the status quo.
To be silent in the face of oppression is to stand with the oppressor.
That’s… that’s it? What’s ban worthy about that?
I can’t disagree with that at all. I don’t think any reasonable person could.
I don’t see any rule you broke so this is a pretty open and shut PTB for me.
That said, no great loss since these LSC communities are all millenarian fantasy dumpster fires. Capitalism ain’t goin nowhere on its own.
the only leftists i’ve ever met that were serious people were the ones i’ve met in person. terminally online leftists just post through it and have nothing else. they post big endgame-level ideas, but if you ask them how they plan to get there, you get dogpiled and called a nazi. it’s roleplaying for attention on social media.
I’ve never met a serious liberal, lol.
Luckily you disproved the point by bringing a plan with you, instead of commenting a zillion times just whining about how nobody is serious and nothing ever changes.
A total fucking anchor TBF, exactly described by the guy you replied to.
Please, more incoherent babbling to go with my morning coffee.
I do notice every communist over the age of 20 I meet IRL is an fascinating conversationalist, while the terminally online lemmy.mls have been almost universally insufferable.
Capitalism ain’t goin nowhere on its own.
Well, sure it is. It’s going to fascism on its own.
(And I’d say, once you get into the full fascist stage, it’s no longer strictly speaking ‘capitalist’ anymore. I’d define capitalism as ‘rule by capital’, but once fascism gets sufficiently entrenched, that’s no longer really the case. At that point, power is no longer determined mainly by how much money you have, it becomes determined by your closeness and standing with the regime’s leaders. Having lots of money often facilitates that, but it’s no longer the primary driving factor – the primary driving factor becomes ideological purity/loyalty and political pandering to the regime. And even those with lots of money can still easily fall out of favor with the regime for any ideological misstep, any perceived threat to or disagreement with the leader, and even those with large amounts of money can still be purged from the regime at a moment’s notice. If it’s possible for the regime’s leader to suddenly decide he doesn’t like you, so then the regime takes your capital away and gives it to someone more regime-friendly, that’s not capitalism anymore.)
I personally doubt it will be replaced by fascism globally as it’s simply too unstable an ideology, despite some current trends in that direction.
Well, no – it will never be globally all at once, at least not in the current geopolitical landscape. It will happen to one country at a time. And then when that fascist country inevitably attacks its neighbors, fascism tries to spread that way.
Though I do wonder if, with the rise of globalism and powerful international corporations headed by fascist pricks, it might eventually end up being a more or less global phenomenon.
Personal armies will be very fashionable for the elites.
Yeah that’s not a serious community. Like I can understand why an anarchist would be vehemently opposed to voting, but a socialist? No. PTB.
Edit: and furthermore, if they’re so against voting, why haven’t they disabled both downvotes AND upvotes, and only use just the other sort algorithms?
Anarchist here: voting might be the least important, least effective action you take … but as long as the state still holds power, you should still do it.
Most anarchist are quite supportive of voting, they would just rather have a direct democracy. The real issue for most is hierarchy. Ofcourse, that’s not true for all anarchists.
Edit: and furthermore, if they’re so against voting, why haven’t they disabled both downvotes AND upvotes, and only use just the other sort algorithms?
Anti-electoralists are not necessarily against voting in literally all circumstances. We’re against voting for candidates for political office.
anarchist here. Absolutely against voting and especially against electoralism
Tell me, how would an anarchist self governed community make decisions as a group?
Exactly. Left-anarchist myself, and the only way is, surprise, voting. Voting and debating. Democracy, for god’s sake. A leader doesn’t necessarily means higher hierarchy; what it really means (or should mean) is just higher responsability with the capacity of fulfilling it.
You’re never going to get a reasonable answer from them if you get any answer at all. Anarchism only works until the difficult questions start getting asked. This is why there is no anarchist society on the planet other than some extremely small communities that would more reasonably be considered communes.
I’m talking about electoralist voting, not voting in general. Check out our instance governance rules
Being banned from latestagecapitalism is an honor. They have conservative mods. You can be banned there for criticizing conservatism or saying things that are too far from Fox News talking points.
Not really sure how or why we end up with conservative mods in these communities, but it really ruins them.
LateStageCapitalism is run by a sole moderator who is either a foreign shill or so stupid that they’re doing their work for them for free.
He bans anyone that goes against his narrative. I am by no means the only person that has spoken out against that sub and its mod. It’s becoming public knowledge at this point that the sub is compromised.
They have communist mods, I think they’re Marxists. I’d respect you more if you at least said you’re against the “extreme left” or something like that instead of pretending that everyone who isn’t liberal is conservative or secretly conservative.
Fascism emerges from liberalism. Calling people fascists when they are against Liberalism and for communism is exactly the sort of shit that will get you wrecked in communities run by leftists.
I was going to make a post and argue about your comment but then see you are on a .ml, so I will just leave it at this
Fascism emerges from liberalism.
probably the stupidest fucking thing I have read today
Think of the 2 nations that define fascism in the modern mind: Germany and Italy. What were they before they were fascist? They were liberal.
I know this is difficult, because it requires unlearning a whole bunch of stuff and learning what feels like old history, but stick with me.
America is a Liberal country. The conservatives and the liberals in America are two factions of Liberalism. Every “tri-color” flag in Europe is the result of a Liberal revolution. Liberalism is really the first formal political philosophy that became a state system. Prior to Liberalism there were monarchies, but not because of a formal political philosophy. Monarchies emerged without that level of self-consciousness. But after Liberalism emerged, Conservatism emerged as a political philosophy to defend the monarchic state system.
Liberalism was a political philosophy developed by the merchant class in European monarchies. Before ocean-faring colonialism, merchants made money via overland trade routes and benefited from the European Crusades. But they couldn’t convert their riches into real political power due to the way monarchies worked and in particular the absence of private property.
But when Europe developed the ability to do over-water colonialism, the merchant class got huge and much much richer. And that created pressure against the monarchic system. Merchants wanted to be able to buy and sell land, they wanted to buy and sell entire cities. They wanted their wealth to translate to political power.
And they couched that desire in terms of “freedom”, “liberty”, and “the pursuit of happiness”. The crown should not stop a man (and only men, and only European men) from going off in boats to take the wealth of other societies and get rich from it. They certainly shouldn’t stop bankers from funding such adventures and then claiming the right to buy millions of acres and pay workers a subsistence wage to farm it for the banker’s profit.
This was the birth of Liberalism. And wherever Liberalism overthrow the monarchy, they destroyed the existing social contract (nobilesse oblige) and replaced it with “every man can earn a wage in a free society”. Which resulted in about 100 - 150 years of abject poverty, famine, pestilence, slums, wars, and eventually labor movements.
Labor movements emerged as workers realized that a) the politicians and businessmen were all lying about liberty for all and b) they had to band together because the “democracies” were sending in the military and paramilitary forces to crush them whenever they decided to stop working and demand better conditions.
This went on for a while until one group of workers got organized in a different way and overthrew their government entirely. 1917, the Bolsheviks, the October Revolution. And what happened? The Liberals got super scared. They saw that it meant they could lose the battle with their own working class. So the first thing they did was invade Russia and try to stop the revolution.
But the second thing they did was fund the rise of the Third Reich and the Italian fascist movement. These movements protected markets, protected large private property holders, and promised to solve the problems Liberals were facing by 1) fusing the labor movement with a nationalist movement to prevent revolution, 2) fuse the state and labor with industrial investments to build the most productive state in the world and 3) use that fusion to field the most powerful military in the world and direct it at the Soviet workers state, destroy the revolution, and build an American-style occupation of the Slavic people’s that would subjugate them for a hundred years or more, just like the Europeans did everywhere else around the world.
And the Americans, and the English, all Liberals, all businessmen with private property and individual rights to the pursuit of happiness through profits, they all funded the fascists because they saw it as a solution to the problem of labor organizing. They believed so much that the Nazis would win that they watched the Great Depression create mass unrest and when FDR’s faction decided to concede some social democratic reforms to avoid revolution, the liberal businessmen of America plotted to coup him and replace him with a military man and implement European-style fascism in the USA because it was a defense against the working class.
Liberalism produces fascism. That’s where it comes from. That’s its systemic function. That’s its history.
It’s not every day that someone takes the time to make a bespoke ELI5🎖️
You don’t read your own comments?
Low effort.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yup.
.ml loves stating liberalism and fascism are related. And they state it with the assurance of an accomplished scholar.
It remains one of the dumbest opinions I’ve ever read on the internet.
Wait untill you hear how accomplished scholars sound when they talk about reality! It’s so wild to hear how confident and consistent they are!
An opinion based in historical analysis. Whereas you have… What?
It’s like eating food making you fat… well sure but that’s super avoiding all the other details
Can you get fat without eating, lmao?
Fascism emerges from liberalism.
probably the stupidest fucking thing I have read today
Every single time fascism has taken over, it is because liberals sided with fascists against socialists.
- Michael Burns (of Wisecrack fame): 📺 Why Liberals Always Side with Fascists
- Hampton Institute: Liberal Democracy: The Bedfellow of Fascism
- Gabriel Rockhill:
Not a big fan of overwhelming empirical evidence, I see.
Not agreeing or disagreeing, because I don’t really want in this discussion, I was just passing by and saw what could be a miscommunication. What I think they were trying to say is the logical inversion of what they actually said, which would be: [Fascism has an extremely hard time rising under authoritarianism]
What they said, “fascism emerges from liberalism” reads as “fascism ALWAYS emerges from liberalism” which I feel like is… Really loose speaking, I think. I could be wrong.
Maybe any non-authoritarian control does ALWAYS result in fascism. You would have to do the statistics on all history and human behavior. It’s definitely possible to be true. I think there may be, I recall something about plato or socrares or ancient Greece or something talking about how a tyrant will ALWAYS rear its head or something.
[Fascism has an extremely hard time rising under authoritarianism]
Maybe any non-authoritarian control does ALWAYS result in fascism.
You’re misunderstanding the terminology. Liberalism, as it’s being used here, is synonymous with capitalism. It’s not the opposite of authoritarianism.
In the historical examples of Germany and Italy, fascism came about out of a capitalist system and supported and was supported by the capitalist class. The economic policies of fascism involved nationalizing businesses belonging to the out groups, but was primarily focused on privatization, including the aforementioned businesses, in order to redistribute them to the in group. The reason that the capitalists supported fascists was because the systems they were in had become unstable and unsustainable, and they knew that their interests would be threatened if socialists came to power, but not if fascists did.
That’s not to say that every capitalist system always leads to fascism, but rather that every fascist state has come out of capitalism. Of course, people have different definitions for fascism, and the degree that that’s true depends on how you define it. A narrow definition that treats a capitalist class as a defining characteristic of fascism would make it true by definition.
Thank you. That’s a very clear explanation.
Keep the comments in YPTB posts about the moderation action itself, not about the general topic in which the moderation took place.
Also, removing their comment wasn’t just opposing liberalism. They advocated for voting and rioting, which certainly isn’t a part of liberalism. At that point, it is just anti-democratic.
PTB
Vote for whoever has the best shot of keeping the greater evil out of office
It’s “Lesser evil” liberalism. The greater evil is the United States of America, not half of its ruling party.
Voting is not exclusive to liberalism. And what does calling the US the greater evil mean on whether you should vote? I don’t know what you are trying to say here.
Nobody said voting is exclusive to liberalism. If you’re going to respond to my comments please try to stay on topic.
Fascism emerges from liberalism.
Lol. Didn’t even need to check that you were from .ml to know you were from .ml.
Sometimes it feels like you’re all just the same person posting under different accounts because you all sound the same.
Implying liberalism and fascism are related continues to be one of the dumbest sentiments I’ve ever seen on the internet. Ever. And I’ve been on this shit since Geocities was the only thing worth doing on it.
I mean, then maybe look for the scholarship on it without using the Internet. Don’t know what to tell you bub.
I love when guys like this try to dunk on the overwhelming consensus of experts and professionals in their field, lmfao.
You see us all say it because it’s fucking obvious by now.
Who gave power to Hitler and his party?
Who gave power to trump after his attempted coup?
Tankie outreach community with mods that are pro Russia and censorship heavy. One of them loves responding to comments they’ve deleted. LW does nothing like usual in response to problematic moderators. PTB.
Don’t comment if you don’t like the rules. Seems pretty easy
LATE STAGE CAPITALISM IS AN INVALID SUB RUN SOLELY BY AN ANTI-DEMOCRATIC CRYBABY MOD THAT BANS EVERYONE THAT DISAGREES WITH HIM AND HE IS MOST LIKELY A PAID FOREIGN SHILL.
Not sure how many times I have to keep pointing this out, but I will because fuck that loser.
Mod’s name is GodlessCommie (lol) and he spreads anti-voter sentiment and runs the sub as his own personal cry space that you can only take part in if you support his narrative.
He is stupid, dangerous, and most likely being paid by people who want to see American decline.
Do not participate in that sub and let everyone you can know not to as well.
I got banned for violating rule 4 (no “lessor evil rhetoric”) despite specifically writing a comment not to include “lessor evil” rhetoric and then having the audacity to call out the mod to show where I broke rule 4 in my comment.
Fuck those guys. I was very motivated to report the channel, but I’m not 100% sure that I’m not just being a butthurt little removed, gonna give it a few days to simmer, and to see if other people continue to have issues with their moderation. Still though, feels good to get a ban badge from them.
lessor evil
Lol. That moron mod doesn’t even know how to spell “lesser”.
Yeah, I thought about posting on here after that idiot banned me, but didn’t feel like it was worth the effort. But at this point I’ve seen multiple others complaining about that fool and his sub so I’m glad they’re taking the time to post about it.
How many languages do you speak?
Could you please screech and cry more about it?
Where else? I can’t stop seeing far right/russian propaganda. I don’t even want to use this app anymore, it seems like that’s all there is here, along with very mean aggressive manipulative accounts.
I don’t know how to stop it. I can’t even down vote the shit, or comment at all anymore because I think a mod silently banned me from multiple places or something.
You can block it in the settings
Block which places?
there should be the option to block specific instances in the settings. if that doesnt, work you could also switch to a different fediverse client.
Who gives a fuck if it’s actual democracy. Vote for whoever has the best shot of keeping the greater evil out of office, and use that time to sharpen your guillotine. Again, you don’t need to pick just one.
Well you definitely broke rule 4:
4 No imperialism, conservatism, reactionism or Zionism, lessor (sic) evil rhetoric. Dismissing 3rd party votes or ‘wasted votes on 3rd party’ is lessor evil rhetoric.
YDI for being an annoying
, although maybe a permanent ban is a bit harsh."off-topic" about electoralism
They present as leftist, but flare up around US elections discouraging voter turnout via ‘bOtH siDeS’ garbage.
I’m sorry but what are you on about? Leftists are rightly “flaring up” in response to “Vote Blue”-types like you actually shitting up our spaces. You’re trying to guilt us into accommodating your individual incoherent liberal sensitivities. Well I’m done moderating my politics to be legible to liberals. If you really cannot stop yourself from going to the polls then at least shut up about them in revolutionary spaces.
And I’m coming at you as an anarchist, not a ML. We should be building dual power in direct opposition to the State and capitalism, not dancing in their fucking circuses! When you step into a revolutionary space and whine about voting, you suck out oxygen to discuss the thing we’re actually…here…to discuss!
You wanna go to the polls? Do it in shame and silence.
This ‘blue MAGA’ tankie shit is somehow worse than the loud-and-clear MAGA shit over on Reddit - at least those neonazis were honest about who they were.
Ayyy that’s a wild accusation coming from the person voting for one of the pro-genocide parties.
Also please vote. In addition to whatever flavor of activism tickles your fancy.
I would sooner saw my own head off. Death to
.Setting aside your incoherent off-topic tirade, I really don’t see how this would violate that rule. Advocating for voting in general is not inherently lesser evil rhetoric, nor did they say anything against third parties. So this seems pretty clearly not a violation of that rule.
Vote for whoever has the best shot of keeping the greater evil out of office
I fail to see how that’s not lesser-evil rhetoric.
incoherent off-topic tirade
It’s actually not incoherent; it’s a consistent if emphatic application of anti-electoralist anarchist analysis. You just don’t like what I have to say or how I say it.
I spoilered the stuff that doesn’t strictly have to do with the moderation action to declutter the feed, but I stand by what I said and how I said it.
And I usually try not to be this venomous towards electoralists, and I won’t be that venomous towards you…but this user called us (anti-electoralists) neo-nazis. That’s a very serious accusation which I will not take lying down!
Vote for whoever has the best shot of keeping the greater evil out of office
I fail to see how that’s not lesser-evil rhetoric.
That’s because you’re assuming the lesser evil is always the one in second place. If you don’t think any 3rds have the potential to break into that coveted political standing between the red and blue teams, that’s on you.
My posts only expressed hostility to MAGA, which summoned defensive tankies like a swarm of flies closing in on a freshly dropped turd. The longer I’m on this website, the more I’m noticing that behavior. It’s gotten to the point that I’m questioning if “tankies” are even a thing, or if that’s just a shitty attempt to conceal their red caps and klan robes under a poorly executed online persona for ‘lols’.
I digress - my suspicion of tankies is off topic, outside of their overt and consistent support for MAGA and ilk, which I did call out in the previous thread.
My posts only expressed hostility to MAGA, which summoned defensive tankies like a swarm of flies closing in on a freshly dropped turd.
I mean, what you said here was:
This ‘blue MAGA’ tankie shit is somehow worse than the loud-and-clear MAGA shit over on Reddit
Like it’s not only campists who use the terminology “blue MAGA”. Anarchists and other non-campist revolutionaries rightly use the terminology (although I would personally not label someone reluctantly going to the polls as “Blue MAGA”; I would use that term for someone more emphatic and supportive of the policies that liberal politicians are responsible for). Followed by
- at least those neonazis were honest about who they were.
Like can you see where I’m coming from here? If you really didn’t mean to call all anti-electoralists neo-nazis then… okay I guess, but that’s not how I read it.
Tbh, that’s really what motivated me to speak up. Like I’m willing to agree to disagree with my comrades about whether or not they individually show up to the polls, even though my viewpoint is emphatically against electoralism as praxis, but I (and I think some other people) read your post as if you were comparing your anti-electoralist comrades to neo-nazis.
It’s gotten to the point that I’m questioning if “tankies” are even a thing, or if that’s just a shitty attempt to conceal their red caps and klan robes under a poorly executed online persona for ‘lols’.
I mean, from an anarchist perspective … it’s not at all shocking that people have recognized that some hierarchies are unacceptable while not (yet?) realizing that the State is inherently one such hierarchy, which is itself responsible for maintaining those other hierarchies. For a different example, many liberals clearly recognize that racism and sexism and homophobia are unjustifiable hierarchies, to the point that some are even doing very noble work in stopping ICE…but they still have not figured out the underlying pattern (hierarchical social relations).
The campists you’re running into here are probably not Trump supporters. It’s just that…“America bad” is a correct answer 99% of the time, and 99% is good enough for some people to round it up to 100%. (And even in the 0.1% where it’s not the correct answer…it is true because America is bad, it’s just not a helpful answer.) IMO campism is a cognitive distortion, but it’s understandable where it comes from.
Like it’s not only campists who use the terminology “blue MAGA”. Anarchists and other non-campist revolutionaries rightly use the terminology (although I would personally not label someone reluctantly going to the polls as “Blue MAGA”; I would use that term for someone more emphatic and supportive of the policies that liberal politicians are responsible for).
I may be misusing the term? My understanding (gained entirely through context in posts like this discussion - so if it was misused in those cases, then I’m parroting an error) is that it’s kind of false flag effort to lure anyone left of the fascists currently running the country to dispersing their support to a wider array of easier-to-defeat opponents. Divide and conquer kinda situation. Idk if there’s any kind of ‘coined’ meaning, I thought it was just internet slang.
Like can you see where I’m coming from here? If you really didn’t mean to call all anti-electoralists neo-nazis then… okay I guess, but that’s not how I read it.
I do see where your coming from. And frankly I agree with a lot of it, which is why the idea of ‘blue MAGA’ (or whatever we’re calling the shit I described above) is getting me so worked up: it’s deceptive, with the goal of tricking actually decent people into supporting something awful.
In any case – All anti-electoralists? certainly not. Anti-electoralism isn’t what I have an issue with. You’re sick of being forced to choose any evil, lesser or otherwise. I get the fuck out of that. The state of our elections is abysmal, in which “vote for me because I’m not the other guy” is often the literal only selling point. It’s exhausting, it doesn’t work, it needs to go away. The shitty reality is that we’re in that system whether we like it or not; and the options presented within are NOT equal - one of those options of going full Nazi right now, and when I call MAGA Nazis, I’m not saying that as an insult, I’m saying they’re actually acting like Nazis. If we’re a given any power at all that be used against Nazis, we should use it whether or not we approve of the system it exists in.
In short, I agree with your disapproval of the process; it’s shit. I disagree with the notion that participating in voting is equal to supporting that system. We (collectively) need to be more strategic with our resources. Vote for the least shit option within a shit system; riot to break the system and reform it into something that’s actually humane.
recognized that some hierarchies are unacceptable while not (yet?) realizing that the State is inherently one such hierarchy
I kinda got ahead of myself with the previous paragraphs, but basically the same spiel here. There’s no shame in participating in a system that you’re stuck in anyway, especially if that participation can nudge it away from Nazism.
The campists you’re running into here are probably not Trump supporters.
…I mean, hopefully not. I try to give anyone the benefit of the doubt by default (although that’s feeling increasingly naive). Yourself included. What I have to question though, is what’s the goal? Especially here - Lemmy seems to be a mostly left-leaning space, so spreading notions of a false equivalence between Trump/his mini-Nazis, with <anyone left of Trump and his mini-nazis> is going to detract from the effort to oppose him. And even if you intend to engage in other more impactful, high-risk-high-reward activism, why skip the vote? Voting is way less effort and way less risk, and I can’t stress this enough, doesn’t stop you from any other action.
It’s just that…“America bad” is a correct answer 99% of the time, and 99% is good enough for some people to round it up to 100%. (And even in the 0.1% where it’s not the correct answer…it is true because America is bad, it’s just not a helpful answer.) IMO campism is a cognitive distortion, but it’s understandable where it comes from.
America bad. I get it. Let’s maybe try to make it not bad. Or at least less bad to start with. Discouraging voter turnout isn’t going to accomplish that.
Edit - I just saw the mod post here warning against soap-boxing about voting, which is 100% what you and I are doing. We should probably move this conversation to PMs if you want to keep it rolling. We’re getting way outside the scope of what I posted in LSC.
Did I miss a comment? The one I looked at did not say that. It just said voting is a good idea. I also did not see where they called anti-electoralists neo-Nazis. If that’s the reason they got banned it would make more sense.
But I was mainly sniping your tirade because we’re not supposed to be arguing with the comment here, we’re supposed to be discussing the rules and whether OP deserved to be banned. Whether we agree with them isn’t super relevant–although I guess it can be if we want to discuss whether given rules have merit or not, so maybe there is some gray area.
I usually try not to be this venomous
Hahahahahah hahahahahaha ok
Yeah, not venemous to leftists who are electoralists. I’ve already clocked you as a liberal snake 🐍
I “clocked” you as having nothing but venom unless someone agrees with you. Then I read your screed against voting and I knew what you are. Snake doesn’t cover it.
Well your clock is busted. I’ve had loads of polite disagreements with people on Lemmy. Although tbh I am a bit more contentious on the .world subs you frequent because, well, .world is a liberal shit hole and it is incredibly cathartic to yell at liberals.
I find it cathartic to tell fake leftists that I see through their lies, but I rarely do it until some moron writes a long tirade against the concept of voting because they’re actually a magat.
although maybe a permanent ban is a bit harsh.
i was gonna agree with that, but then i got to the part of their post where they say that everyone pushing back on blue maga are neonazis
A shocking comment from someone who uses the word liberal to insult anyone who even slightly disagrees with them.
Well maybe if you weren’t being a liberal I wouldn’t have to call you a liberal 😑
Yep it’s just me and definitely not anyone who challenges you.
It’s you and other shitlibs with whom I am unapologetically contentious.
Use of that word kinda gives you away, fraud.
The word “shitlibs”? What are you smoking and can I have some?
I don’t smoke meth, sorry.
shitlibs
It’s like you’re a masochist who gets off destroying their credibility in an argument.
Why exactly does the word “shitlib” invalidate my credibility? I made my opposition to liberal capitalism explicit at every step of my output on the Fediverse.
You must not be very smart if you can’t tell the difference between disagreeing with something and destroying your own credibility by using derogatory terms in regards to it.
Get yourself back in school. It’ll do wonders for you.
Not me, I’m nonconfrontational 😇
for being an annoying lib
Welp. There went all your credibility.
It’s great that your profile picture is a clown because now I don’t even have to call you one
Creative.
Anyways. Would you like to understand how credibility works so you don’t keep hurting yourself in your confusion?
When you use a derogatory term against someone you are arguing with, others can see that you have no valid argument and have resorted to name calling to score some kind of imaginary points.
For example, other than MAGAts, who deserve all the derision aimed their way, I haven’t created some kind of derogatory term for adherents to the other ideologies I don’t agree with. I don’t agree with Libertarianism or Anarchism, but I haven’t created some dumbass term to try to belittle them.
Unfortunately, for someone of your limited intellect, it seems that doing exactly that is the only ammo you’ve got in your tiny little weapon.
Edit: Ah, it appears you are a self-professed anti-voter. Now I don’t feel so bad implying that you aren’t very intelligent.
When you use a derogatory term against someone you are arguing with, others can see that you have no valid argument and have resorted to name calling to score some kind of imaginary points.
Unfortunately, for someone of your limited intellect
a lot of complaining about calling people liberal as a derogatory term but then practically every comment of yours is you being derogatory about peoples intelligence for disagreeing
others can see that you have no valid argument and have resorted to name calling to score some kind of imaginary points.
Now you know how most of the people who use lemmy feel when they see you use the word tankie, lol.
They present as leftist, but flare up around US elections discouraging voter turnout via ‘bOtH siDeS’ garbage.
No, they criticize bourgeois elections all the time; consistently during all 24 months of the biennial US election cycle.
US liberals like you only complain about it for 2 months, and then go back to brunch for the next 22.
This ‘blue MAGA’ tankie shit is somehow worse than the loud-and-clear MAGA shit over on Reddit - at least those neonazis were honest about who they were.
‘Horseshoe theory’ is nonsense. We’re socialists, we’re punching right, and you & MAGA are to the right of us.
Don’t hide who you really are - fascists supporting authoritarian and imperalist regimes.
They don’t criticise Russian or Chinese elections even though there are definitely bourgeois. False!
Going straight to insults with the liberal crap and no, many people in the US care a great deal about elections for far more than just 2 months. This is false and inflammatory
Horseshoe theory perfectly describes leftist who cross over to worshipping neoauthotarian regimes like China and Russia. They embrace violence and turn their back on leftism and cross over to becoming something that is very similar to the far right only they profess socialism. The type of socialism where everyone is convinced by the barrel of a gun.
They like to accuse everyone as being fascist (legitimate) but then can’t wrap their head around China being even more fascist than the US. It is a rather sad ideology really and I feel bad that they have lost the way.
China being even more fascist than the US.
Even by Reddit standards, that’s an impressive level of imperial core propaganda that you’ve integrated into your Western chauvinist core beliefs.
Go on defending a “socialist” country that produces more billionaires than the US for the third straight year and shows no signs of slowing down. The fourth largest arm dealer in the world spreading its imperial killing machine across Africa where their arms have already killed civilians on both sides. One that literally meets every definition of fascism including the tight integration of business and the government.
Confusing neoauthoritarianism for communism is pretty damned funny honestly. Thanks!
Yes, that’s the imperial core propaganda I’m talking about. The US spends millions per year cranking it out, as earmarked in the budget by Congress.
Good thing China doesn’t produce propaganda!! Lol you are sooo funny.
Also, I hate the US, but I am not about to run into the arms of more capitalists pretending to be something else.
You should run into the arms of some theory, lol
Weak effort, sad.
I know for a fact each of these points has been thoroughly explained to you multiple times, so my question is: are you paid not to understand? Is it that the propaganda is baked in too deep? Are you silly as heck?
No disrespect.
Edited for wholesomeness
Yes, I have had several conversations with people from .ML that can admit that the Chinese government has many fascist qualities and that they are indeed neoauthoritarian much like most of Asia.
I study propaganda for fun that is why the amount of propaganda you spew is so ridiculous. I have already offered help deprogramming if you would like. You seriously need help.
I study propaganda for fun
⨂ Doubt
But muh Media Bias/Fact Check says it checks out!
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/contact/
Dave M. Van Zandt obtained a Communications Degree before pursuing a higher degree in the sciences. Dave currently works full time in the health care industry. Dave has spent more than 20 years as an arm chair researcher on media bias and its role in political influence.
Van Zandt is some hobbyist who was in the right place at the right time: the “post-truth” moment of Clinton’s loss to Trump and the string of Russiagate conspiracy theories and Kellyanne Conway’s alternative facts and the Cambridge Analytica hysteria.
The whole concept of the “left” or ”right“ “bias” being inversely correlated with factualness is garbage. These kinds of graphs, which try to convince us that centrism equals factualness, are garbage:
The core bias of corporate media is the bias of the capitalist class, but people like Van Zandt don’t seem to understand this.
The inner workings of corporate media were explained about forty years ago in Inventing Reality and Manufacturing Consent.
A five minute introduction: Noam Chomsky - The 5 Filters of the Mass Media Machine
I said “these kinds of graphs,” of which there are many https://duckduckgo.com/?q=media+bias+chart&iax=images&ia=images
But you’ve sparked an idea for an interesting project: use MBFC’s API to create one of these graphs from their own data. Doing a little googling, it seems that scripts and data dumps aren’t hard to come by.
I think armchair media analyst Dave M. Van Zandt is going on vibes. I don’t think he understands corporate & think tank media. Does he know who Walter Lippman or Edward Bernays were, or what the Council on Foreign Relations (“least biased” 🤡) is or made note of its prominent media members? Does he know about the Powell memorandum or the Trilateral Commission’s report, The Crisis of Democracy?
No results found for
site:mediabiasfactcheck.com "manufacturing consent".I’ve seen The Grayzone debunk the New York Times’ lies many times, and yet:
Also, in what universe is the neoliberal, anti-labor NYT center-left? And if the Grayzone in the ultraviolet territory, where does that leave the explicitly Communist Monthly Review, outside of MBFC’s Overton window? Surprise, it’s to the right of it:
The first step is to understand the media, which Media Bias/Fact Check and the Ad Fontes Media* are never going to teach you. The only people who are taught it are those who get degrees in marketing, public relations, political science, history, and journalism; and even then only some of them.
The new post-Trump/“post-truth” media literacy curricula won’t teach it to you either, because it was paid for and crafted by the US military-industrial complex: New Media Literacy Standards Aim to Combat ‘Truth Decay’.
This week, the RAND Corporation released a new set of media literacy standards designed to support schools in this task.
The standards are part of RAND’s ongoing project on “truth decay”: a phenomenon that RAND researchers describe as “the diminishing role that facts, data, and analysis play in our political and civic discourse.”
None of it is a secret, though, and it can be learned.
Wow, you totally proved I don’t study propaganda. Are you purposely acting obtuse here?
I think you have too much faith in your own intelligence, and you should find a new hobby, lol.
Oh what a real zinger. Love the insults.
China being even more fascist than the US.
Please, do us all a favor and go into detail about this, lol.
For sure.
Leader Centricity - This one is a no brainer with tons of modern myths about Xi already that are easily debunked.
Hyper nationalism - The cult of China is pretty darned intense as you demonstrate. China relies on the myth of national greatness, decline, and a vision of rebirth. All classic fascist qualities.
Orwellian Surveillance - People are whisked away for displaying even the most minor grievance against the government. It is beyond ridiculous that they have converted most of their own populace into spies out of fear. Reminds me so much of Fascist Italy it isn’t funny.
Corporate State Capitalism - CCP highly integrates many industries and exerts rigid controls on them. This is perhaps the most defining feature of fascism as explained by the person who coined the term. This is really what sets China apart from the US and makes even more fascist in nature.
Militarism - The MIC in China is highly integrated into civilian research and industry is aligned as well. China has now moved to the fourth largest producer of arms in the World and will likely become third or second in the next decade depending if the US starts to fail. They sell weapons to worn torn parts of Africa where their weapons have ended up on both sides of the conflicts killing civilians. They are also giving material support to Russia to prolong the Ukrainian conflict.
There are some decent counter arguments to some of these points, but I am not convinced. It is clear that China has many Neofascist and Neoauthoritarian qualities as opposed to strictly copying historical fascism or authoritarianism from a place like Italy, Germany, or the US.
Thanks for the breakdown. Yeah you should definitely find a new hobby, haha.
Thanks for the insightful reply.
I was expecting better lol
Keep trying, troll game weak.
…we’re punching right…
Hmmmm. But not up… (and that is the only direction you should be aiming.)
Disappointing, that.
Tell me you don’t know left from right without telling me you don’t know left from right.
In capitalist states, right is up, because the right controls the state.
Exactly, because as we all know the left and right wings are both on a perfectly level playing field in the US.
I see OP has multiple comments that are all deleted. A reply quoting their “you should vote” comment isn’t deleted. There are comments still up like:
What prevents you from voting and rioting at the same time?
There is absolutely no reason to not vote.
To me it looks like something else triggered the ban.
Idk I’ve seen multiple people with this sort of experience so I’m willing to believe OP
It’s so that other people can still pile on. Telling people to vote is against LSC community rules.
Support for capitalism or for the parties or ideologies that uphold it are not welcome or tolerated.
It looks like they’ve got razor thin margins on what they allow.
-You should vote ✅️
-You should vote for the party that isn’t measurably making you life worse. ❌️
They’re guilty of “both sides bad” in my opinion. An endorsement of any mainstream party or candidate breaks their rules.
Saying you should vote would also be supporting capitalism or the parties/ideologies that uphold it.
I’m sure you will tell us which modern country with a democracy isn’t operating some form of capitalism. Functional people deal with the cards they are dealt to choose the best possible outcome, not imagine the best possible one and make believe.
The comm has rules, they may be completely idiotic but they are unfortunately clear enough that can’t complain about them making rules up. It isn’t like most comms with “no politics” or “no promoting violence” where they inforce is in a wishy washy way.
First of all,
The comm has rules, they may be completely idiotic
Yes, so people would complain. Do not suffer fools. They also cripple any real discussion about “Late Stage Capitalism”.
But this would be assuming your leap of logic was correct, which it isn’t. The rule is:
3 No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, anti-communism, or liberalism, liberalism is in direct conflict with the left. Support for capitalism or for the parties or ideologies that uphold it are not welcome or tolerated.
You don’t vote because you support everything a party does, specially in majority wins all election systems. I’ll quote myself again:
Functional people deal with the cards they are dealt to choose the best possible outcome, not imagine the best possible one and make believe.
Using “just follow the rules” as an excuse on an anarchist instance is a wild take.
It could have been another one. I expanded on my stance that discouraging activism or voting is an act of support for the status quo, specifically MAGA. Maybe that crossed the mod’s line. /shrug.
They present as leftist, but flare up around US elections discouraging voter turnout via ‘bOtH siDeS’ garbage. that only ever elevates shit like MAGA.
Trying to hijack a community like latestagecapitalism to tell people to vote for more latestagecapitalism is peak. Writing off everything to the left of you conservative tells me the mods were absolutely right in banning you.
Rule 0
I have yet to see the posts punching left lately AND not following the comm rules be removed (note reflection on op not above image)
I… don’t think this user is punching left…
OP certainly is https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/28745948
Agreed, but I was referring to the person your comment directly replied to.
And I was agreeing that there’s been a flood of the same rule breaking posts all just punching left
Blue isn’t left?
No, the democractic party is overwhelmingly not “left.” They are the controlled opposition, in a game that the republicans are no longer playing, they are playing overthrow the republic, while the democrats are still playing oligarch monopoly.
The dems mission is to prevent moving left. Hopefully that will change but in any other country they’d be center right (like in the UK that has a liberal dems party)
A lot of them are outright conservative.
It’s become a massive contention of people applying leftism to neo-liberals and calling them “the left” when they certainly are not. I feel the media purposely did this to help kill of any left wing ideology.
The Democratic party never has been and never will be the left. The line between left and right is the line between who should own the means of production, the capitalist class or the working class.
You’ve been on Lemmy for two years, and on an anarchist instance, no less. How do you still not know this?
They do. They want to blur the line.
I find it weird how they remove comments of people with massive upvote ratios. Like arent those comments the community overwhelmingly agrees with? How are they justifying consistently censoring their community this way?
PTB just because of that
Things can be both popular and bad for a community and/or breaking its rules. It’s obvious that this isn’t what’s happened here, but upvotes alone aren’t everything - you could probably get a lot of upvotes with a good meme in any discussion community (because who checks what community a post came from every time before upvoting), or post an inflammatory political take that is bound to get a lot of comments that mods now have to deal with.
Here however, the Mod simply disagreed.
Yeah for sure, I see it similarly but just didnt want to write it all out. So thanks for your addition.
Yeah, but even so, these are just totalitarian and absurd rules. They’re destroying freedom of speech because they’re compelling the language and speech to only what they look as acceptable. That’s certainly just minifascism.
fascism is when you stop fascist talking points from being spread
How are they justifying consistently censoring their community this way?
The sole active mod on LateStageCapitalism is an insufferable crybaby who is either an accelerationist or a paid foreign shill. If you go against his narrative, you will be banned. It’s a trash sub that shouldn’t be used by any reasonable person.
Go ahead and define accelerationism for us, champ.
