At this point, I’m so miserable, that I agree, and accept our new Chinese overlords. We lost the fight for humanity long ago, I at least want to live a bit.
Well, you kinda need military power, even if you don’t use it, you can’t expect countries to not attack you and just be diplomatic.
Also, don’t accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it’s just childish and not better than attacking them
It’s not a “strawman.” I understand that most people on here don’t want the weapons going to Israel, which is why I made the point. But the reality is that, once a weapon is built, it’s in the hands of politicians to give to whoever they like. If those politicians are pro-Israel, then even if you want the weapons for the purpose of defense, there’s a significant likelihood they’ll be used to perform genocide.
It absolutely is a strawman, no one mentioned Israel in the discussion before you, it is also not a reason to stop increasing defense spending right now that we need to defend against Russia.
First of all, no. The whole idea of globalization is that if you have economic entanglement the wars will not be profitable.
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military see Switzerland and all guerrilla groups successfully repelling much bigger opponents like the US.
Also, don’t accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it’s just childish and not better than attacking them
I mostly agree, but the meme created does represent this ideology and you can attack problematic ideologies.
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military
You’re right! Europe can just defend itself with thougts and prayers. Why didn’t all the bureaucrats from Brussels think about this? Omg, you’re a genius!
military strength without having very big military see Switzerland
Switzerland has mandatory military service. If you include reserves, it has a bigger military than Germany, Poland, or the UK. Not per capita, just straight up more people. If you only include active personnel it’s still comparable per capita to most European countries
Only out of necessity, Russia has shown that they are done playing the diplomatic game (though they have been playing it quite badly), the US has fully shat it’s pants and is rolling around in it and China has the carving knife ready for when Russia colapses, if Europe is to survive we need to federalize.
At an absolute minimum, we need to build a unified military under one leadership throughout the EU, military personal from the south must be expected to defend Europe in the north, and vice versa.
I don’t see this as being right-wing, I see it as it being a reality we need to face.
I’ll even share a detail about my general political views, out of all ideologies, I strongly believe that Social Democracy is the best, as it combined a strong government with a regulated free market.
I’ll even share a detail about my general political views, out of all ideologies, I strongly believe that Social Democracy is the best
Have you lived in Europe for the past 20 years? European “Social” “Democracy” has led only to the destruction of welfare state, worker rights, increasing of retirement age, and collapse of salaries, and whoever tries to deviate from that by being further left (Syriza, Podemos, LFI) gets couped out of power, whereas far right governments rule without issues in half of the continent
Politicians in every European country’s socialdemocrat party have failed social democracy, seems to me like there’s something in common, maybe the system fucking sucks? And when a new leftist party rises to fight against that, it gets destroyed institutionally, either through removal of government agency by EU (Syriza in Greece), by refusal to place them in government despite majority (LFI in France), or outright fabrications of false funding from Venezuela by the police apparatus (Podemos in Spain)
How much is your socialism gonna help anybody when a fascist state overthrows you because you don’t have a military?
Funding a defense force isn’t inherently right-wing militarism; it’s a practical necessity in the world we live in. Its primary function is as a deterrent to potential invaders, it only goes into kinetic operations when its function as a deterrent fails. All the more reason to maintain a strong military.
Peace is more likely when your adversaries know they won’t stand a chance against you.
The only leftist ideology that advocates against an active military is anarchism. Anarchists prefer spontaneous militias that activate as soon as another state acts on them. Obviously there are downsides to this practice as 1) gathering up a militia and organizing them can take time away from defending against outside oppressors, which can jeopardize defense in general, and 2) gathering up a militia of normal folk in a society means they won’t be actively trained in conducting warfare effectively, or at least not as much as another state that does have an active military - this also represents a lower hand which can again jeopardize defense in general.
Marxist-Leninist communists believe that an active military that trains its population and performs drills regularly is the most suitable defense against capitalist states, since they have their own military doing the same.
Tell that to the person being “unapologetically socialist” whom I responded to.
Anarchists can’t even organize a voting bloc or a civil sector, and they think a militia will spontaneously activate when needed? Oh please.
For the record, I am somewhere on the left of the spectrum. I believe both social democracy and democratic socialism have their merits. I’m definitely not an ML, for various reasons including I believe they’re too authoritarian and I find them insufferable.
But I also believe that modern social democracies such as are found in western and northern Europe have societies and ways of life that are worth defending, even if that means fighting for them. With the threat looming to the east, I find it imperative for Europe to fund a strong military coalition/alliance.
It’s almost like people have forgotten history. Europe isn’t a newcomer, I just hope it won’t go to our heads, and that’s where being 27 countries together makes sense for me so hopefully only “good” things will come out of it all.
Oh yeah and we know they totally stopped after WW2, yup no neocolonialism or backing foreign military occupations. Just look at how Europe is treating the Palestinian occupation, they sent them unlimited weapons very strongly as an act of condemnation. Look their feelings are hurt and that’s close enough to real action.
No but its in northern Africa and the Middle East, I have been to Palestine personally. Those starving children don’t care that a couple of EU members have strongly worded statements when the weapons flow freely.
I don’t care what eurolibs have to say, their actions speak significantly louder
Of course the very statement “in the room with us right now” clearly states the intent, that’s somewhere else to people of a different skin color so clearly it doesn’t matter. The average eurolib has no sympathy to the starving and oppressed of the global south.
In the past the eurolib argued that they were “civilizing” them with Christianity, that has not changed yet the justifications have (now its “women’s rights”, “democracy”, and “human rights”)
Yep, they love to just change the meanings of those words to suit themselves.
I would love for them to have more equality and protections for minorities of all kinds, but just enforcing that from our country or any other country is using political manipulation for a vague gain. If the shoe was on the other foot, they’d scream about election interference.
Well I would also love that too but butchering women wont make them more free, bombing hospitals doesn’t increase the sanctity of human life, burning children alive with Incendiary weapons wont teach them to love the west, installing dictators wont make them more democratic, and funding brutal civil wars doesn’t make minorities safer.
Eurolibs will insist only Americans did this but the records don’t lie, the EU was a participant and Eurolibs supported it
We are white and they ignored us too. It’s not about races. It’s a random fact if you are black or tanned-skin. Basically, North of Mexico and South of the continent are full of white persons.
Yeahhhh, no…
China’s wet dream or what?
At this point, I’m so miserable, that I agree, and accept our new Chinese overlords. We lost the fight for humanity long ago, I at least want to live a bit.
Nope, the EU population is larger than the US, where we are lacking is in our military power.
And are ramping up, faster than I would have believed possible 5 years ago.
OK so you are a evronationalist militarist, nice to know there are so many right-wingers on Lemmy now… ( ,⩌‘︿’⩌,)
Well, you kinda need military power, even if you don’t use it, you can’t expect countries to not attack you and just be diplomatic. Also, don’t accuse people of being [insert here ideology], it’s just childish and not better than attacking them
How many of those weapons are going to end up in Israel’s hands?
Weird strawman…
It’s not a “strawman.” I understand that most people on here don’t want the weapons going to Israel, which is why I made the point. But the reality is that, once a weapon is built, it’s in the hands of politicians to give to whoever they like. If those politicians are pro-Israel, then even if you want the weapons for the purpose of defense, there’s a significant likelihood they’ll be used to perform genocide.
It absolutely is a strawman, no one mentioned Israel in the discussion before you, it is also not a reason to stop increasing defense spending right now that we need to defend against Russia.
The fact that nobody mentioned Israel is the point. I stg. It isn’t a “strawman” to point out possible unintended consequences of supporting a policy.
“I think I should jump off a tall building.”
“Are you crazy? You’ll die!”
“Wow, what a strawman. Nobody even said anything about dying. I don’t support falling to my death, only the jumping.”
First of all, no. The whole idea of globalization is that if you have economic entanglement the wars will not be profitable.
Also there are other ways of keeping military strength without having very big military see Switzerland and all guerrilla groups successfully repelling much bigger opponents like the US.
I mostly agree, but the meme created does represent this ideology and you can attack problematic ideologies.
@[email protected] wrote:
You’re right! Europe can just defend itself with thougts and prayers. Why didn’t all the bureaucrats from Brussels think about this? Omg, you’re a genius!
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Good for them!
Removed by mod
Switzerland has mandatory military service. If you include reserves, it has a bigger military than Germany, Poland, or the UK. Not per capita, just straight up more people. If you only include active personnel it’s still comparable per capita to most European countries
Only out of necessity, Russia has shown that they are done playing the diplomatic game (though they have been playing it quite badly), the US has fully shat it’s pants and is rolling around in it and China has the carving knife ready for when Russia colapses, if Europe is to survive we need to federalize.
At an absolute minimum, we need to build a unified military under one leadership throughout the EU, military personal from the south must be expected to defend Europe in the north, and vice versa.
I don’t see this as being right-wing, I see it as it being a reality we need to face.
I’ll even share a detail about my general political views, out of all ideologies, I strongly believe that Social Democracy is the best, as it combined a strong government with a regulated free market.
Have you lived in Europe for the past 20 years? European “Social” “Democracy” has led only to the destruction of welfare state, worker rights, increasing of retirement age, and collapse of salaries, and whoever tries to deviate from that by being further left (Syriza, Podemos, LFI) gets couped out of power, whereas far right governments rule without issues in half of the continent
I am living in Sweden, I have done so for the last 38 year after being born.
I have witnessed the all of that.
I stand by what I said, including the part of regulated free markets which you didn’t bring up.
I absolutely disagree with how Socialdemokraterna moved away from the ideology of Social democracy.
However, this does not change my views of the ideology, only the politicians who has failed it.
Social democracy requires strong leaders who can withstand trends pulling in either direction.
“I’ve seen with my own eyes social democracy failing simultaneously everywhere in Europe and ruined millions of lives. However, I still support it”.
No, I have not seen social democracy failing, I have seen politicians failing to uphold social democracy.
Politicians in every European country’s socialdemocrat party have failed social democracy, seems to me like there’s something in common, maybe the system fucking sucks? And when a new leftist party rises to fight against that, it gets destroyed institutionally, either through removal of government agency by EU (Syriza in Greece), by refusal to place them in government despite majority (LFI in France), or outright fabrications of false funding from Venezuela by the police apparatus (Podemos in Spain)
That’s the problem: they only need to buy your politicians with many Swedish kronas.
Do you believe a so fragile system is right?
Friend, you need to understand: USA could turn off your F-35.
Simply, you aren’t prepared for USA turning around.
No they can’t.
Sweden doesn’t have F-35’s.
Neither does France.
Europe as a whole also have plenty of Eurofighters.
The US hasn’t really fought any nation with comparable tech and infrastructure since WWII.
I don’t think they’ll have an easy time doing that.
Everything else sounds right-winger when one is into authoritarian “left”.
Sorry if someone being unapologetically socialist is too much for you 😢😢
How much is your socialism gonna help anybody when a fascist state overthrows you because you don’t have a military?
Funding a defense force isn’t inherently right-wing militarism; it’s a practical necessity in the world we live in. Its primary function is as a deterrent to potential invaders, it only goes into kinetic operations when its function as a deterrent fails. All the more reason to maintain a strong military.
Peace is more likely when your adversaries know they won’t stand a chance against you.
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What are you on about?
“We need to throw cash bricks at rheinmetall. Yes, I’m a leftist”
What? Did russia invade itself? You said they are using it against nazis, but they’ve just been bombing innocent civilians.
Also, “USSR” saying the quiet part out loud? Lol
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The only leftist ideology that advocates against an active military is anarchism. Anarchists prefer spontaneous militias that activate as soon as another state acts on them. Obviously there are downsides to this practice as 1) gathering up a militia and organizing them can take time away from defending against outside oppressors, which can jeopardize defense in general, and 2) gathering up a militia of normal folk in a society means they won’t be actively trained in conducting warfare effectively, or at least not as much as another state that does have an active military - this also represents a lower hand which can again jeopardize defense in general.
Marxist-Leninist communists believe that an active military that trains its population and performs drills regularly is the most suitable defense against capitalist states, since they have their own military doing the same.
Tell that to the person being “unapologetically socialist” whom I responded to.
Anarchists can’t even organize a voting bloc or a civil sector, and they think a militia will spontaneously activate when needed? Oh please.
For the record, I am somewhere on the left of the spectrum. I believe both social democracy and democratic socialism have their merits. I’m definitely not an ML, for various reasons including I believe they’re too authoritarian and I find them insufferable.
But I also believe that modern social democracies such as are found in western and northern Europe have societies and ways of life that are worth defending, even if that means fighting for them. With the threat looming to the east, I find it imperative for Europe to fund a strong military coalition/alliance.
bullies use arms, you need to defend yourselves
Ironic comment because almost all anti-EU people in Europe are far-right.
Really? How interesting…
It’s almost like people have forgotten history. Europe isn’t a newcomer, I just hope it won’t go to our heads, and that’s where being 27 countries together makes sense for me so hopefully only “good” things will come out of it all.
Mongolian were newcomers when they conquered China, Middle East, Europe and other regions.
Then you deserve to feel Trump’s fury hit Europe. If you’re so full of yourselves regarding your power, let’s hope you don’t end up regretting it.
lol
You mean “Trump’s tantrum”
The US has lost many long term conflicts with less capable foes in the last decades.
They haven’t faced a foe with comparable tech and infrastructure since WWII.
so you want them to have more dogs
Yes, and smaller
27 dogs ranging from chihuahua to labrador vs 1 bear
Most eurolibs would happily allow European imperialism and justify it by arguing if they didn’t do it someone else would
“Look someone had to rape every single brown person and steal their stuff. So why not Europe? They swore they don’t do that anymore.”
Oh yeah and we know they totally stopped after WW2, yup no neocolonialism or backing foreign military occupations. Just look at how Europe is treating the Palestinian occupation, they sent them unlimited weapons very strongly as an act of condemnation. Look their feelings are hurt and that’s close enough to real action.
ha ha
it’s true
Is this “European imperialism” in the room with us right now?
No but its in northern Africa and the Middle East, I have been to Palestine personally. Those starving children don’t care that a couple of EU members have strongly worded statements when the weapons flow freely.
I don’t care what eurolibs have to say, their actions speak significantly louder
It’s in every room in Africa. But they’re not white so the media ignores it.
Of course the very statement “in the room with us right now” clearly states the intent, that’s somewhere else to people of a different skin color so clearly it doesn’t matter. The average eurolib has no sympathy to the starving and oppressed of the global south.
In the past the eurolib argued that they were “civilizing” them with Christianity, that has not changed yet the justifications have (now its “women’s rights”, “democracy”, and “human rights”)
Yep, they love to just change the meanings of those words to suit themselves.
I would love for them to have more equality and protections for minorities of all kinds, but just enforcing that from our country or any other country is using political manipulation for a vague gain. If the shoe was on the other foot, they’d scream about election interference.
Well I would also love that too but butchering women wont make them more free, bombing hospitals doesn’t increase the sanctity of human life, burning children alive with Incendiary weapons wont teach them to love the west, installing dictators wont make them more democratic, and funding brutal civil wars doesn’t make minorities safer.
Eurolibs will insist only Americans did this but the records don’t lie, the EU was a participant and Eurolibs supported it
Sure? I saw fear. They are afraid of USA.
We are white and they ignored us too. It’s not about races. It’s a random fact if you are black or tanned-skin. Basically, North of Mexico and South of the continent are full of white persons.
Colonialism doesn’t respect humans (no one).
trvke