Fuck all imperialist and hierarchical power structures. Fuck colonialism and fuck the police. Fuck fascists and the libs that enable them.
Xi Jinping is a fascist, and I don’t think it was liberals that enabled him
Xi’s also an imperialist and implemented a hierarchical government. Nothing I said was paradoxical. Fuck 'em all.
What liberals enabled Xi??
Did I say that all authoritarians are enabled by liberals? What agenda are you trying to push by misconstruing my words? Like seriously what point are you trying to reach here?
fuck fascists and the liberals who enable them.
I think it was this part where you link fascists to liberal enablers.
But that =/= “every fascist is and always has been enabled by liberals.”
They’re saying that it’s very common for liberals to side with a rising fascist over the left in a misguided attempt to maintain the status quo. They’d typically rather move to the right instead of giving any quarter to the left, because the left wants to upend the structures of oppression, while the right wants to bolster them—while scapegoating an out-group.
Look at what macron is doing in France right now. Moving to the right to build a coalition with them to go against the majority left coalition that won the election.
I didn’t stutter. Fuck every liberal enabling the rise of fascism.
Ah I see. Your point would have been clearer if it was “ fuck the fascists and
theany liberals who enable them”
Nixon
The only country actually running over people with tanks is Israel and does it with the unconditional support of the US
Liberals as always don’t see Arabs as people. Don’t you dare come asking for our votes.
Do Arabs get to vote in the US?
Or if you mean Arabs that chose to go live in the US, I don’t think they care too much about a country that, well, murdered all the natives
Yes, Arab Americans do and are enough to swing elections in Michigan and a few other states
In Michigan, for example, Biden won in 2020 by 154,000 votes. Census estimates put the state’s Arab American population around at least 278,000.
Biden won Arizona by 10,500 votes. The Arab American population in the Grand Canyon State is estimated to be 60,000.
Biden took Georgia by 11,800 votes. The Arab American population there is at least 57,000.
https://www.axios.com/2023/11/29/arab-american-voter-defections-biden-2024
And by “liberal” you mean anyone who dares criticise Daddy Putin and Supreme Leader Xi, amirite?
Dude my very first sentence was “Fuck all imperialist and hierarchical power structures.” How can you think that I support China or Russia?
Uh oh, you’ve activated the libs. Now they’ll make wild assumptions and other fabrications instead of actually addressing anything you’ve said.
Uh oh, you’ve activated the
libstankies. Now they’ll make wild assumptions and other fabrications instead of actually addressing anything you’ve said.FTFY, lib
You seem to be under the impression that liberals have a logically and ethically consistent belief structure.
The realization that liberals are unscratched fascists is a tough one, but you are one of the few intelligent folks able to recognize it… it’s a curse.
you’re such an online edgelord that you’re fighting straw men of your own creation. sign off, your family probably misses you.
Oops. Posted on tankie news again. Always forget to check.
Edit: actually, i retract that. I got mixed up with another thread.
Your use of tankie is exactly like the conservative use of woke. You’re not even close to superior to those you mock. Hopefully one day you realize that and actually apply that human brain of yours.
Just to be clear, you don’t think I should be against liberals enabling fascism? You don’t see anything wrong with the slow march to the far right that’s happening in so many parts of the world recently?
The irony of a liberal calling an anarchist authoritarian… Liberals are simps for an authoritarian economic system
I’m just really annoyed by “liberal” constantly being equated with “fascist enabler” round here. If anyone calls themselves a liberal while supporting fascists, they’re just fascists in disguise. While there are people like that, that’s not what liberalism means, in fact, it’s quite the opposite.
Please, enlighten me about what you think liberalism means. In my view (as an anarchist) liberalism is at best ineffective at preventing fascism from taking over. It enables colonialism and imperialism, and offers no solution to the horrors of capitalism. Liberal ideology is one of state violence and compromise with literal fascists.
Liberalism is a political and moral philosophy based on the rights of the individual, liberty, consent of the governed, political equality, right to private property and equality before the law. Liberals espouse various and often mutually warring views depending on their understanding of these principles but generally support private property, market economies, individual rights (including civil rights and human rights), liberal democracy, secularism, rule of law, economic and political freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and freedom of religion, Liberalism is frequently cited as the dominant ideology of modern history.
- Wikipedia
It’s a language issue. You’re likely from the United States, where liberal is used to suggest an adherent to classical liberalism or progressivism. Most of the rest of the English speaking world means neoliberal, as in an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and the reduction of government spending.
I’m fortunately not from the US. But you’re right. A lot of people equate liberal with neoliberal or libertarian. Which is a real bummer.
focusing on voting as the only allowed political action, supporting capitalism, valuing order over justice…
Dude, liberals literally helped Hitler become Reichskanzler.
For anyone not familiar, that was in no small part thanks to Paul von Hindenburg. If only he had instead gone the way of the zeppelin named after him.
So many of them on Lemmy lol
They clearly wrote fuck hierarchical powers. Fuck any supreme leader.
They think liberal is the same as neoliberal
Hear fuckin hear!
Here here
‘The Libs,’ LOL!!!
From a anon American, it’s hilarious seeing the hick come out. ‘the Libs hur durrr.’
Hahaha that shits always funny
How many billionaires before a country is a liberal shit-hole?
600?
675?
Idk man, one seems like too many to me.
China’s around 695, guessing the threshold is 700. That’s when the tankies will turn on it for sure.
Punk is not dead
imperialism is the subjugation of one country for the benefit of the first. DPRK is not imperialist (how could it be under UN sanctions), PRC is not imperialist, USSR was not imperialist.
Communists critically support the DPRK, the USSR, and the PCR, progressive liberals uncritically support Obama, Biden, conservative liberals uncritically support Trump, Bush, etc
read lenin.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/
Talking nonsense solves no problems, as everyone knows, so why is it unjust to deprive you of the right to speak? Quite a few comrades always keep their eyes shut and talk nonsense, and for a Communist that is disgraceful. How can a Communist keep his eyes shut and talk nonsense?
It won’t do!
It won’t do!
You must investigate!
You must not talk nonsense!
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_11.htm
The instance you use is named after an Ikea plush. I will not debate you.
USSR was not imperialist.
Countries like Estonia might disagree with you there, buddy.
After 30+ years of anti-communist propaganda, of course many countries in Eastern Europe may “disagree”. As a currently ongoing example, the other day there was an article ( paywalled, but you can read it pasting the link in 12ft.io ) in the Spanish newspaper “El País” about a new museum in Moldova dedicated to the forcibly relocated to other parts of the USSR during the late 30s. The article talks about the horrors of Stalinism and how 90k people from the region were forcibly relocated in 1937-1941, although the majority were allowed to return in the 50s. All that’s good, having a memory of our history is a good thing. But then, the article goes on with some conversation with the “Director of the National Agency of Archives in Moldova”, Igor Casu. I’ll translate to Spanish:
Casu considers that the war in neighboring Ukraine started by Russia has made the [Moldovan] citizens begin to perceive the Soviet regime as one of occupation and colonisation
So, basically, conflating the current imperialist capitalist Russia with communist USSR. But the funny part comes now, when they actually quote Casu:
“We hope that if the deportations keep being exposed ni the following five years, we’ll achieve that a solid part of the population will be really informed, and, at the same time, that they’ll consolidate a national identity”
So, they’re going FULL mask-off, and basically saying “we want to show this particular side of history not with the objective of remembrance of victims, but actually to create a new national identity based on the independence from supposedly oppressive Russia”. Fostering nationalism and anti-Russian sentiment as part of the new national identity. This is the recipe that’s been successfully applied to most of Eastern Europe for the past 30+ years, and you can see the results by asking any Polish person what they think of Russians. If this isn’t clear enough, the article reminds us:
During the last years, under the rule of the pro-European government, this ex-Soviet republic has been making efforts to propagate knowledge of the suffering created by the phenomenon of “Russification” that took place […]
Mind you, not a single reference in the article or the monument, to the 140.000 Jews deported by the Nazis during the 1940s invasion in Moldova, of whom 90.000+ were murdered in concentration camps. Let’s remember the victims of horrors of our history, but only those politically convenient to us now. Since we want to get closer to western Europe, including Germany, let’s put those killed by Nazis (many more than by Soviets) aside for now.
If you look at historical evidence, you can’t possibly make the argument that Estonia was subjugated and exploited by the USSR. The local language was preserved and there was an abundance of written publications in Estonian, people were allowed to study in the local language, the salaries were similar to those in the rest of the USSR (or higher actually), industrialization rates were equal or higher to those of the rest of the USSR, number of doctors/teachers and hospital beds per capita were equal… really, none of the telltales of imperialism are there. If you want to see a discussion with actual data regarding this, I suggest you have a look at “Human Rights in the Soviet Union” by Albert Szymanski, a wonderful book filled to the brim with data and a rather nuanced discussion.
So let’s not pretend that there hasn’t been a strong effort from pro-western authorities in all of Eastern Europe into pushing the narrative that this made-up historically continuous “Russia” has been exploiting and colonising Eastern Europe, and let’s not pretend that the opinion of most people in Eastern Europe who’ve been exposed to this campaign for the past 3 decades is unbiased and historically accurate (because public opinion never is).
Cool. The USSR still invaded and annexed Estonia. And Lithuania. And Latvia. And Armenia. Shall I go on?
Military invasion =/= imperialism, I’m surprised I have to explain this to a leftist.
Funny, invading multiple countries and making them part of your country sure sounds like it fits that definition to me.
The South China Sea, Poland and most of eastern Europe would like a word…
Edit: Oh, and Tibet, Taiwan, etc…
These “tankies” are conservative right-wing shitbag trolls trying to convince the normal people that supporting oppression and dictators is somehow “left-wing”. Do not fall for their conservative bullshit.
Just like any other conservative, every word they utter is deception or manipulation. Tankies are conservative trolls through and through.
That’s a no true Scotsman argument.
There are plenty of actual tankies here. In fact, the Lemmy software is created by tankies and one of the larger Lemmy instances is run by them.
There are plenty of actual tankies here.
When a term becomes an insult, it’s very difficult to use it as anything other than an insult.
I more often see “tankie” used to decribe anti-war liberals than pro-war leftists.
There are two useful tests when evaluating the value of words like this:
-
Do people use it as a form of self-identification? If they do, that’s probably the real definition. If they don’t it’s probably just an insult.
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Does the word have a consistent definition? If the definition frequently shifts to suit the needs of the speaker, it’s probably not a real definition.
I really like your first point! Second one is a little tricky. It’s not just a fluctuation with an individual, but rather the difference between groups. Bottom line, the consistent definition depends on your own exposure to it, if you’re not going by what others claim to be “is the most frequent.”
The second one is definitely a bit trickier.
I think there are two major forms of inconsistency that matter most.
-
When the parties in a conversation use different definitions for a word, they will just argue in circles. They may both have good points but neither party will understand the other. That’s often fairly easy to resolve, “I can understand your point if we use your definition of X. We can also see how my point stands if we use my definition of X. How about we call them X1 and X2 so we don’t get confused?”
-
When one party uses different definitions of the word it’s fair to ask them to pick one or to be explicit about when they’re shifting definitions. When someone says, “I believe Y because X is TRUE and I believe Z because X is NOT TRUE,” they’ve introduced a huge logical hole which needs to be addressed.
-
-
From what I’ve seen, there’s a big divide amongst the tankies. There are those who are basically Stalin MAGA, base their political opinions on Soviet aesthetics and don’t consider much the practical implications of their actions. Some simply lash out against mainstream liberal ideology and others are just trolls.
Ane the other camp is made of people who read a lot of communist philosophy and are absolutely convinced the only way to achieve an equal society is by forcing everyone into it. This has its own problems, but they at least have an internally coherent ideology.
That’s not to say I agree with either camp. Their ideology promotes a vanguard party which can quickly spiral into “some are more equal than others”. Absolute power corrupts absolutely and all that. But I do understand where the second camp is coming from. I think the path to a better world lies in trade unions and people coming together to defend common interests.
When they are actively censoring and banning people who make critical comments about the PRC, the USSR, or even present day Russia, I don’t care where they come from.
I was banned from lemmy.ml myself for saying something about the Tiananmen Square massacre.
or even present day Russia,
How did this even happened? How can anyone not right-wing ban for opposing Putin’s oligarchs like Usmanov, Roldugin, Rotenberg, Yakunin and Putin himself?
West bad, not-West good
You got banned for a month because you posted an off topic anti-China meme in the thread looking for moderators of the memes sub with the text “Why, so you can censor some more posts critical of China? The modlog of this sub is absolutely ridiculous:”
The ban expired a month ago so I guess feel free to go back.
E: after more carefully scrutinizing the images in the modlog, you posted a screenshot of people being banned or having posts removed for posting gore and debunked sinophobic stuff.
Debunked sinophobic stuff like what? In my experience, that category includes anything critical of China, including Tiananmen Square.
I think there were two links to the gore page people post and a couple of responses saying you couldn’t even talk about tiannamen square.
The first is clear what it is, I’d call the second one sinophobic because it’s patently untrue and is basically an anti-china buzzword now. Idk why mods did what they did.
Genuine question, is criticism of the Israeli government, even based on falsehoods or misunderstandings, antisemitism?
To say that reference to a historical event that the CCP doesn’t believe happened the way the west does is sinophobic is on the same level. At best you’d have people with unjustified animus towards the government of China but not its people. After all, is the claim that the people of China collectively slaughtered those student protesters demanding reasonable changes to a corrupt system or that the government did so?
Both r/conservative and lemmy.ml are equally frightened of facts.
In my own experience with actual Communists (I do live in a country which has them), they’re some of the most conservative people around.
I mean, these people are holding on really hard to political slogans which often are a century old or near it and they genuinelly an uncritically think all that stuff is Leftwing even in the face of all evidence that such forms invariably led to the creating of new Elites and to lesser or greater extent Dystopian Societies, never the promised Equalitarian Utopia.
Plenty of Lefties around who trully believe in Leftwing Principles without the insane tribalism of following the dictats of The Party.
Personally I just saw this meme as referencing such traditionalist unthinking muppets who think of themselves as Lefties all the while defending the well installed and entrenched establishment and elites of a few specific countries.
Well a lot of that can be explained by the fact that conservatives co-opted the left wing movements for communism and largely turned them into dictatorships. These governments endured several decades before collapsing, which allows newer conservatives to think of them as “the good ol days.”
It doesn’t mean they ever were communists. They just stole the name and ruined its reputation.
A simpler explanation is that the people who seek power are the worst of the bunch and they’ll say whatever it takes to get there and keep it - it’s a pretty well know thing since Ancient times that the best rulers are the ones who do NOT want to rule.
Sociopaths will just as easilly sing praises to Marxism-Leninism as they will to the Free Market, so don’t confuse whatever bullshit they spout to get to and stay at the top of the pile in an the power structures created by a specific ideology with their actual beliefs and don’t excuse the failures of the structures created by that ideology that allow such people to get to the top.
Even if the “Revolution” isn’t led by assholes, any power structure which centralizes power and doesn’t have hard to subvert mechanisms for constant change of who is in power, attract the worst vermin and they’re the one who will knifes as many backs as it takes to get it and keep it so they’re far more likely to get it than “good people”. This is true even in Power Duopoly systems like the US, and much worse in power monopolies like the Soviet Union and even Modern Russia.
That blaming of “others” for one’s own failures is just you having internalised the typical propaganda from the power hungry assholes (just as much from the ones portraying themselves as Fascists or from the ones portraying themselves as Communists) to deflect the blame for their own actions away from themselves.
Back to the specifics of your point, the inherent weakness of Socialism and Communism as opposed to more Democratic systems like Social Democracy, is that the former require a Dictatorship Of The Proletariat to reach the final utopia which was Equality For All, and invariably that supposedly temporary step were power and the Means Of Production are centralized becomes permanent, and they’re exactly the kind of structure that pulls is the worst assholes: Lenin was probably somebody who, at least to begin with, had his hearth in the right place (though with him too, the Power Corrupts dictum applies), whilst Stalin was a pure Sociopath.
I don’t disagree with you, but I wasn’t trying to explain the origins of communism, but rather why conservatives would feel nostalgia for it today.
I get the impression that a lot of conservatism (in the original sense of word) is really old people yearning for something from their old days, which is just the image they have of their youth beautified by the passage of time.
I can see that with old Communists in the country I lived in: they grew up with the fire of their youthfull belief in Communism, back in the days of Fascist Dictatorship and even more so in the days of the Revolution which overthrew that Dictatorship, so they yearn for that feeling back, not for the Fascist Dictatorship but for that “simple” Communist and the fire of believing it and acting it from their youth.
The thing is, it wasn’t that Communism back then was simpler (sure, the practical implementations of that ideology invariably had simple emotion-appealing slogans accessible to all people of all educational levels, but that was just the Propaganda and the reality of it was never simple), it was they themselves who were comparativelly simple as teenagers and young adults compared to their much older selves of present day.
Then around that you have a lot of young people who are attracted to simple explanations for things - same for Politics as for Religion - many of whom get swayed by those older people who trully believe that Communism of old was simple and pure.
So my theory is that it wasn’t as much conservatives who took over Communist, it’s that the ones who have been there and stuck with it their whole lives became conservative.
Russia was and is a culturally conservative country. The USSR made some early progress towards equality for women and LGBT folk, and turned it right back around a bit later. Russification under the Czar–trying to get all the diverse ethnic minorities to just be Russian–was simply turned into a Stalinist version of the same thing. The fundamental authoritarianism of the Czar never left, but it was given a Marxist coat of paint.
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Unfucking it and refucking it and unfucking it again is not exactly success. No more so than recent changes to abortion in the US. And there’s a whole lot more to Feminism than abortion.
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Yes, I’m quite sure in the context of my original argument that Russia was and is culturally conservative. A society that goes backwards like that never had a solid feminist culture to begin with.
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True the Soviets never came around on LGBT issues, which is a shame.
Not even completely true. After the civil war and prior to the crackdowns of the 30s, gay marriage was legalized, and there were soviet scientists already proclaiming that gender was more akin to a spectrum than to a binary. Sadly, that progress was lost forever after Stalinism.
No, you do not see comrade. All of the people of mother Russia are Eurasians, which is it’s own unique people that have a culture that just so happens to be identical to Russian culture. You westerners just wouldn’t understand our eastern ways…
Having lived 20 years abroad, including my core years of personal adult development, and having returned to my homeland were I became a member of a small Leftwing party, I keenly notice just how much people are, seemingly unaware of it, frequently shaping their thinking and even practice of being Leftwing on local cultural factors: pushing up in the party the sons and daughters of old hands or selecting people for positions of responsibility based on liking them rather than merit isn’t really being Leftwing (it’s quite literally the opposite of Fair and by being unmeritocratic one actually reduces the chances of success of the party) and people making speeches of the “give shit to my group” (women, teaches, pensioners, whatever) variety isn’t being Leftwing, it’s disguising one’s greed as being “for the group” and has little to do with the common good.
The point being that all political ideologies get adjusted by those who practice tehm and they do it based on what they thing is normal, and most people think “normal” is what they’ve seen around themselves their whole lives, so it’s expect that the political ideologies that end up being successful in a country “go along with the grain of the wood” and adopt the local’s ideas of “normal”.
I’d bet that most of them aren’t trolls. I have friends who were liberal as you could be, but they let cynicism turn them into tankies.
The association with the left-wing is the point. Otherwise it would just be calling right wing trolls conservatives and fascists, and there’s a resistance to that for some reason.
Haha no, they are real. Horseshoe theory of politics and all, what comes around goes around.
Lemmy was originally built by and for tankies, so this is completely unsurprising. The .ml TLD on the original instance isn’t a coincidence.
Lemmygrad was literally made to be an even more mask off .ml
Weird they made a decentralized platform for one single group.
I can see the decentralized platform as a communist parallel. I don’t, however, understand the fanaticism for the murdery shit show dictatorship that was Russia/China though.
Communism and conservatism are not mutually exclusive. Conservative communism involves dictators and oppression. That’s how that weird nonsense happened.
And that’s okay. Most of them stay to their own instance and don’t come over and bother us normal people. Just ignore the crazies and move on
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It’s a pretty standard take on the commie side that stuff like colonialism and American slavery are pretty much the capitalist equivalent of the communist mass deaths, so I think their position is that everyone’s a hypocrite who has to support a government committing some kind of mass murder (in the modern day, America’s mass murder in this lens is its alliance with Israel). Since Americans won’t admit their government’s atrocities (even though a lot of them do call out the US, but that’s not how they see it), why should they admit the atrocities of the USSR?
I mean… I see people around here presumably amarrican have zero issues discussing US atrocities. So at all Americans at least.
Never seem a tankie admit Stalin did a genocide once
They made it for themselves but let us set up instances outside of their control due to their morals that software should be open for all. Again proving the best open source software comes from scratching a personal itch.
How authoritarian of them
Of course it’s OUR SOFTWARE
(cue soviet anthem)
/s
It was never closed to non-tankies, but it wasn’t very welcoming. I had an account on .ml early on and most of the time I got hammered with downvotes, despite having opinions that I’d describe as being on the left edge of liberalism.
To be clear, the left edge of liberalism is bernie sanders. Is that what youre saying?
Meh, I’d say Bernie is either a social democrat or a reformist socialist who hides his power level.
He’s a self described democratic socialist
Correct, but I’m pretty sure he said he doesn’t want to completely socialize the economy.
By US standards maybe, but I’m to the left of that.
Some members of LDPR(e.g. Furgal) seem to be more left than Bernie. And LDPR is former LDPSU - first right-wing party of USSR. Or some members of Union of Right Forces.
Not corporate neofeudalist is better than corporate neofeudalist, which is improvement for US. But I can’t say he is on edge even of liberalism.
and most of the time I got hammered with downvotes
Downvotes are federated.
Yeah but this was 3 years ago, Lemmy was basically only the .ml instance at that time.
It’s almost like the dishonest nature is built into their every move.
CTH has been eradicated from every platform it’s arisen on, then they built Lemmy.
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That is enlightening and not very surprising.
I had one of these fucks try to tell me that North Korea is very democratic.
They literally have democratic in their name!!1!1!! /s
A shitpile by any other name…
Easy, NK: One man, one vote. Thus democratic.
And the man? It’s Kim.
SEEEEE THEY HAVE ONE MORE PARTY IN PARLAMENT THAN THE USA!!!11!1! /j
Wait, really? It says more about USA than about Korea. How does one become even worse than Korea? It is antiachivement.
In literally no instance is the USA worse than north Korea. Unless you count the lack of murder death camps and a supreme dictator for life as something to be better at
The USA has a higher rate of incarceration.
Based on the number of incarceration we know. Who knows if that’s true and how many are executed
Well, now I know about 3 countries in the world with death penalty: USA, Belarus and NK.
Belarusians are working on this.
No it doesnt. NKs parlament is for show and fasade.
Kim’s party holfs 98% of the seats. The other 2 partys hold no power at all and arent an opposition. They always vote with the main party.
No it doesnt. NKs parlament is for show and fasade.
Helloooo… Are you replying to something else? Or you don’t know what an antiachivement is? That’s the entire point.
They turn all the lights out at night because everyone voted for it, not because they are a failing authoritarian state that struggles to keep their grid running. Allows for great stargazing from the very normal hard labor camps.
hexbear has entered the chat
lemmygrad
lemmy.ml too increasingly
I’m seeing more and more tankies migrate to lemmy.world, because they don’t do anything against them, but lemmy.world is also much less likely to get defederated by other instances. Fuck big, centralized instances. People should move to smaller, niche servers like db0, blahaj.zone, beehaw, etc.
my alt is on blahaj and I really enjoy the local stuff there but its so slow for me sometimes :/
It’s weird that Mao, Sun Yat Sen, and Chiang Kai Shek, were all part of the same pro-democracy party early on in China’s civil war.
Mao won the war, Sun Yat Sen got out of there, Chiang Kai Shek was pushed out and became dictator of Taiwan.
China is weird.
Also weird is that one guy caused most of the deaths from famine in both the USSR and China: A conman named Trofim Lysenko, who was lying about having a new science of agriculture… He was bury seeds way further than they could handle then faking his results to keep his job… Killed like, 30 million people who were ordered to take up his techniques.
About China, you know what they say, it’s easier to be the opposition than to actually govern. Many of those who govern end up being corrupt or incompetent or both.
Who knows if mainland China under ROC would have been better. People say that will be the case when we look at Taiwan. But Taiwan suffered from thirty years of so-called White Terror and Taiwan eventually democratising is arguably pure luck due to a man whose name escapes me.
The trajectory of history is never predictable. There are far too many factors to consider; factors which are themselves caused by chain reactions of previous factors and events, which themselves are influenced by other previous events.
Lee Teng-Hui is the man that helped Taiwan transition into a democracy.
Chiang Kai Shek already oversaw a China beset with hyperinflation, pervasive corruption, and famine. That, too, is history.
It’s why the Maoists were able to launch a popular revolution in the first place. Chinese people had literally nothing to lose but their chains.
Chiang had to work with various warlords and bore most of the fight against the Japanese, while Mao gathered strength and let ROC to bleed itself. Even if ROC won and the CCP got destroyed, we don’t know if factionalism and warlord-ism will emerge since ROC had been weakened severely. Or, in another alternative time, Chiang and KMT had somehow pulled a miracle, and somehow made the entirety of China industrialised as quickly as post-war Japan and never had to resort to dictatorship and hence had always been democratic after World War 2.
If I remember it correctly, in China Mao ordered sparrow to be killed en masse because they supposedly ate the grain: turns out that what they ate were the pests that attacked the plants.
This is bidens fault
/S cause lemmy
China is weird
Is it? There are plenty of examples of smaller factions joining forces to overthrow a common enemy, who later battled it out amongst themselves.
Oooooh, this thread’ll let my blocklist feast for days as the Tankies come out to whatabbout
Edit: Man yall are too kind! Thank you for helping me make Lemmy a more intelligent place! <3
Bro tankie doesnt even mean anything anymore, what are you actually saying?
You said in another thread that you wished Russia had succeeded in assassinating a German arms manufacturer.
I think it means something in your case.
Oh yeah. That’d be stupid. Besides billionaires, sadly arms manufacturers are the one group you don’t mess with.
I wish we had let them succeed. Russia can help out America and themselves at the same time
In context it doesn’t sound as stupid. Like if someone dropping bunker-penertating bomb and killing Putin will help both Russia and Ukraine. Despite my wishing for Putin rather being sent to Hauge or Russian prison, any option is better than Putin continuing war.
And there are other things that better not exist for entire world like all those spying and censorship agencies like FSB, RKN, FBI, NSA.
Add me! I don’t see a single decent leader in this meme, but governance/economic debate by mascot is counterproductive.
Done!
Oooh, block me too!
Hell yeah brother!
That’s the average lemmy.ml user
Lemmy is worse for political discussion than Reddit has ever been. At least Reddit has had the numbers for people to call out extreme views on either side, but the number of absolute nutjobs on here that either call for the downfall of capitalism immediately, or to let right-wing thinking slide as a natural progression of politics today. They’re the sort of people that post memes about murdering Nazis in the streets, but would cower at the sight of one - or those that would happily march if they weren’t so fucking awkward.
Some of us just want to enjoy the memes.
Imagine unironically comparing wanting the end of capitalism to fascism
The way of it’s end matters.
Anyone here calling for collapse is indulging in fantastical or privileged collapse fantasy. Hoping that from chaos, their preferred brand will come out on top
Ha, this reminds me of a scene from the movie Miss Sloane where they easily discredit some politician on their left by hiring some shmuck to go stand in the background of their speech with a ‘abolish money’ banner
A lot of the Hexbears genuininely seem to be under the impression that escaping the horrors of capitalism to be freed from wage-slavery would mean that they’ll finally have the time for “self-healing and growing their own food” which sparked a funny comment from another lemming that it exposed their fantasy that under communism they’d have a job gardening as opposed to farming
Not sure I agree. Just from the number of pro-kamala threads and negative Trump threads. I don’t see that much in the way of extreme views.
Many people on .world are the so-called ‘Reddit refugees’. I’ve noticed a large portion of them tend to be liberals (as in neoliberals) from the United States and accordingly think of anything left of center as “radical/extreme leftism”. A few weeks back, they were all agitated over some leftist strawmen a few of their more vocal members have been fabricating to gripe about. This is likely just a continuation of the same.
I’m a Reddit refugee too. But thanks for the context. I haven’t seen the straw man. I have noticed a really strong streak of “blue no matter who” which is a terrible attitude to have, that’s the way the Maga folks think.
I’m not even in the US (I’m an Aussie) but my opinion is blue, but like, do better? We gotta do better. Please do better.
To be fair we have the same thing here with shills for the mainstream parties. (But we do have viable 3rd options)
The straw man is “tankies”. There are actual tankies on Lemmy, but these geniuses are using it like United States fascists use woke: to describe anything they don’t like and to shut down discourse. They’re pretty much blue MAGA. It’s gross.
I feel the same way, both about the cultish behavior and that people can and should do better. Unfortunately, the United States treats politics much like it treats sports, and I believe this is partly why idiocy like this manifests so frequently.
Tankies is not a straw man. There’s literally someone in this very thread lying about the events of Tianamen Square by claiming the literal tanks were totally peaceful and not used as part of the CCP’s oppression of people protesting.
It’s almost like you ignored the entire content of the comment you responded to so you could refute a point that isn’t being made.
blue maga is a nonsensical term. MAGA literally want to end democracy and execute their "enemies’. The people you describe as blue maga are…checks notes…shutting down discussions on social media.
The dramatic irony of your discourse poisoning comment in response to a comment about poisoning discourse may be immeasurable using today’s technology.
Yo. I’m not American. (Have lived there before)
But this is hilarious… Maga and the republicans have used the most horrendous language and discourse for the last 8 or so years…
Democrats been little removed cats…
This shits undoubtable.
They’re doing more than that, but clearly you’re not interested in discourse so much as… Checks notes… Looking for opportunities to tell people they’re wrong, so I’m not going to waste my time explaining further.
Facts… If you are maga, you want a king in America… or are a complete idiot. Like so much so, that you deliberately avoid the evidence of the crimes your ex president committees specifically against the American people and process.
There are almost no other options. Want a king/fool.
Unfortunately I see tankie sentiments expressed far too often on Lemmy. Case in point this very thread: https://lemmy.world/comment/11331168
I did see this kind of extremist view expressed on Reddit too, but far less commonly than here.
The extremist views are almost entirely left wing, as in like literal communism. Not like how Republicans call everything communism, but people who want honest to god Marxist-Leninist communism.
And then there’s the tankies, who pretend to like communism but actually just simp for geopolitical enemies of the US.
heck you don’t even have to go that far. the second picture can be pretty much every republican president whos held office. When was the last ware we started happen while a dem president was in office?
Operation Prosperity Guardian, started by Joe. That took me about 10 seconds.
More like a defense of merchant ships attacked by houthis.
I wouldn’t call that a “war started by Joe Biden”.
Well Wikipedia considers it a war, I bet the poor mother fuckers that died think so too, but that list has 7 other conflicts that Obama started, weirdly there isn’t a single one by the ultimate mega hitler everyone is talking about.
Megahitler closed a “don’t shoot while I’m running away” deal with the Taliban that Biden had to mop up, now you can hate on Sleepy Joe as much as you want, but that is Drumpf’s doing.
Another day, another comment I’ll block for stupidity.
The 10 people who died in the defense of merchant ship from houthis is totally comparable to the tens of thousands of homeless people, protestors, victims of police violence, inability to pay for medical care, resulting from Trump era policies, not to mention what banning abortion will do.
I’m not trying to defend Trump, I’m just saying that the proposition that all Democrats are bloodless pacifists is completely removed from reality.
The US hasn’t declared war since WW2. Wikipedia will tell you that, too.
You don’t have to declare war for it to be a war. The US has carried out plenty of wars since WW2.
Sorry for your loss.
What
So the war on Ukraine isn’t a war because Putin didn’t declare it? You guys are delusional.
Megahitler is currently focused on the enemy within, after that is exhausted they will need to start on the enemy without.
Oh well if Wikipedia says it is then I guess we have no choice. Who invented the toaster again?
Ansar Allah could just take Iran’s fist out of their ass. But they seem to love being front line puppets.
Go make another account, this one is getting blocked en masse.
Good, I’d rather not talk to people who settle their differences of opinion by stamping their feet and plugging their ears.
ultimate mega hitler
If Trump wins and he starts marching the Latino and queer people into camps like in the threats his people are making, I want you to remember that you said this.
Absolute lunacy. You really believe this?
Do I really believe that they’ll do what they’re threatening to do when they get into power if they get into power?
Yes, I do. Why shouldn’t I? Why would I even want that risk?
There’s already an ongoing transgender genocide in the U.S. caused in great part by Republicans. Why would I want to make that worse?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_genocide#United_States
Show me where anyone is threatening internment camps for gay people.
The Latino thing is going to be the exact same thing that all 4 of the last sitting presidents did, but you’re going to act like it’s worse when someone red is in charge.
I have little hope you’ll grab the concept, but
Did that ‘war’ start with the Houthis firing missiles, or them being fired upon?
Link?
omg so true, esp on the OG Lemmy instance, where even the admins/creators of Lemmy on there are tankies.
That feeling when you get banned for mentioning Russian war crimes in Ukraine.
The pain of having to walk on eggshells just in case some admins decide to have a power mod day.
Ate an instance wide ban for saying democratic republics are, by definition, a form of democracy 🤷♂️
republics are, by definition, a form of democracy
I suppose that makes the DPRK a democracy?
You really thought you had something there, huh?
Just saying your point doesn’t hold up
Russia isn’t even leftist? It’s oil oligarchy and kleptocracy. They love authoritarianism, they don’t give a shit about economics.
Yeah but they are fighting the imperialist west by invading a brotherly nation which they have historu of repressing but in a family type of way tho
Vatniks don’t care about anything but Russian nationalism.
That feeling when you get banned from [email protected] and other communities (moderator log: “commie”) for warning about bad faith actors among those spending their entire online political discourse complaining about tankies
Probably should have said Putinism war crimes instead. Everyone would agree to this.
You mean lemmy.ml?
Yes
Tankies
Now, I don’t like violence. But even I can see that there’s a difference between violence waged for imperialism and violence waged against imperialism.
And you can see the difference too. That’s why Obama and Biden always say that their wars are being waged “for freedom”. That’s why you accept the violence of historical revolutions like the American Revolution.
The problem is, Obama and Biden are lying when they say their wars are for freedom. Their wars are for profit and control.
People here claiming it’s not the case are just wrong. I’ve been banned from multiple instances and had posts deleted by these bozos. Actually authoritarians lol
