• GaryTheSnail@feddit.org
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    9 days ago

    I think honey and Wax qualify as vegan, the bees make the stuff anyway and the honeybees we have would die out if we’d stop caring for them, they would probably die out and without these bees we would have problems with food production in general, especially in areas with a lack of natural pollinators.

    • flughoernchen@feddit.org
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      8 days ago

      Apart from it obviously not being vegan - others jumped that train already - honey bee industry is actually pretty bad for the environment. Especially in areas with a lack of natural pollinators the competition honey bees place further destabilizes the ecosystem, even worsening the insect die-off.

      (That’s not the article I learned it from, just the first one I found on that matter. Feel free to recommend better ones.)

    • Ledivin@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      Honey and wax don’t typically qualify as vegan, but I’ve always found that to be absolutely ridiculous. Don’t feel bad for eating honey, they can literally leave at any time - and occasionally do.

      • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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        8 days ago

        they can literally leave at any time - and occasionally do.

        Isn’t clipping the wings of the queen fairly common practice? That’s what keeps the bee hive in place, from what I understand.

        • GaryTheSnail@feddit.org
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          8 days ago

          What? No, never heard of that. Its probably illigal in most places as well.

          Also the queen isn’t really necessary to start a new hive, a queen egg is laid by a worker bee.

          The worker bees could and do carry the queen from time to time as well.

              • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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                8 days ago

                Ok, sure. You do realize all these are methods to prevent the bees from leaving, which undermines your original point, right?

                • GaryTheSnail@feddit.org
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                  8 days ago

                  My point was never that they just leave, my point was that they don’t need to leave and aren’t supposed to, but besides that they live completely natural. And they still can leave when they feel like its better for the hive, the other methods don’t physically hinder them to do that, they just don’t need to do it, the only thing they can’t do natural is changing the hive, wich in nature they do to prevent pests from accumulating, but thats the beekeepers job for honeybees.

        • Ledivin@lemmy.world
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          8 days ago

          It’s illegal in most countries and frowned upon by most beekeepers. It happens, sure, but it’s absolutely not “fairly common practice.”

          • Barbarian@sh.itjust.works
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            8 days ago

            It’s illegal in most countries and frowned upon by most beekeepers.

            Could you please give me a source on the legality? Can’t seem to find anything. From my own google-fu, it seems it’s a controversial practice, with different beekeeper blogs laying out the pros and cons. It looks very much like an ongoing discussion rather than a clean “It’s bad, don’t do it ever” like declawing is for cats, for example.

            Considering putting pigs (who are known to be smarter than dogs) into gas chambers to suffocate to death while their lungs burn is 100% legal in the EU, I would be absolutely astonished if they actually had a strong animal welfare stance on bees.

      • GaryTheSnail@feddit.org
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        9 days ago

        I mean we don’t mistreat them for honey, they just leave it inside the cones for “bad times” but the beekeepers make shure the bees never get to bad times (unless the evil bugs come in)

        • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 days ago

          And when the evil bugs come in and spread they get the cute little bee vets in who carefully tend to them. Wait, not they don’t! They plug the entrance with oily cloth, drench the hive in petrol and light it on fire.

          We also know the bees don’t really mind the comb being harvested because they don’t try to sting or anything. Bee keepers famously never have to induce torpor and wear protective equipment to do it.

          Anyway I’m a landlord and I know it’s ethical because if the tenants didn’t like it they could just leave, and sometimes they do!

          • GaryTheSnail@feddit.org
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            8 days ago

            The bee mites can’t be effectively treated medically, lighting it on fire is however not common practice where i live(setting stuff on fire is most definitely not legal anyway), the beekeepers spray fine sugar on the bees and provide them with water in a attempt to get the bees to clean each other and the nest, it also harms the mites apparently, the method isn’t always successful but better than trying nothing or having these mites spread.

            And bees feel threatened by humans obviously but as insects they act on instinct alone, you can’t teach them that the beekeeper doesn’t harm them and having anti sting clothing is also good for the bees, they die when they sting humans.

            Furthermore calling taking out the honey coombs like designed “harvesting” is pretty idiotic, it doesn’t harm the bees or the integrity of the hive, as they are built so you can easily take it out. The bees only try to sting because there is a big thing taking out a part of the hive, they don’t know they get it back, they don’t know that the beekeeper doesn’t want to harm the bees/queen. You talk like tiny insects have feelings you can hurt, they don’t have a concept of feelings, they act on instincts, the beekeepers don’t harm their bees.

            Oh and the last paragraph is just plain stupid. Bees aren’t humans and they have no concept of ownership, they also don’t get mistreated, they live just like in nature, only difference is the material and size of the hive casing, wich is often clay or wood or plastic depending on design, in nature it would be wood and mud only. We also “domesticated” bees thousands of years ago, wich basically meant that people back then put wild bee hives in poetry or wood casings so they can access the honey, even back then it was known how much they need and how much they can produce, they aren’t stressed, they are just living normal bee lifestyle that hasn’t changed for thousands of years, they don’t care who they loose honey to, but humans do it way less destructive than bears or other natural honey eating animals. We don’t destroy their hives, we don’t kill them and we most definitely don’t harm them.

            I think you need to learn a little more about bees and beekeeping. Honey is the only “animal product” wich can be seen as vegan, its literally just bee spit and pollen, we don’t milk the bees we don’t shorten their lifespan or alter their lifestyle for it, they just get a pre-built hive from us in exchange for some of their honey. Otherwise we don’t actually interfere with what they do.

              • GaryTheSnail@feddit.org
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                8 days ago

                Actually most animals like round things… ducks, humans, wolfs, cats (all sizes) dolphins… Bumblebees are just the first insect we discovered that on, BTW honey bees are a different species than Bumblebees.

                And acting from instinct doesn’t mean everything is hard wired, it means that the actions they take follow specific patterns in specific scenarios, like big animal “attacks” hive -> defend hive with life (wich we protect them and us from with smoke wich triggers another response and makes them less aggressive without doing them harm)

                Again, you act like insects live in the same cognitive sphere as animals or even humans.

                • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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                  8 days ago

                  I act like someone who has no idea what it is like to be a bee and so defaults to respect.

                  Insects are animals btw, definitionally. They are in the kingdom animalia.

                  You seem very confident you know what it is like to be a bee. I assume that’s because you just enjoy making shit up.