1. There are only a few legitimate swing states, votes outside swing states don’t matter

2. In no swing state did third party votes supercede the difference between Kamala and Trump votes. Ie, even if every third party voter, Libertarians included, voted Kamala, she still would’ve lost.

3. Even under the Democrats, “No Rights” is still the party platform.

4. Leftists have always supported revolution as the only legitimate means of enacting change, while liberals aid in the constant rightward spiral. Voting is an incredibly small level of political activism, organizing is far more effective.

5. The DNC were enacting a genocide of Palestinians.

You just have a stupid voting system

Can you tell us how the Dems are going to reform the voting system so that people’s choices are fairly represented? No? They have no plans for that because they perceive themselves as beneficiaries of a broken electoral system? Wow it’s almost as if they’re self interested crooks themselves

Edit: people downvoting this are the same people who’d hear about coca cola paramilitaries in South America and then switch to Fanta, thinking they’re voting with their wallets

You spent the whole elections saying that leftists were an irrelevant Demographic who could be safely ignored. And you’ll be saying it again come the next election. It’s only when you need someone to blame a loss on that they matter.

The economic system in the US guarantees fascism, the rules are made up and votes are don’t matter.

I didn’t vote because I’m not American. They should revolt that is the only answer.

All 3 points are wrong. 1 There is no status quo, they have demonstrably both gone further right. Which brings me to 2 2 There is only fascism and fascism-light. Genocide Joe also built the wall, deported massively more people:
Bombed civilians in Yemen and displaced half a million people there for his genocidal proxy.
And many mor scummy thing.
3 They will never have a revolution, only placate Trump and move even further to the right to win back some votes.
And people will take it, americans are pacified and harmless, some lame protests are not ‘revolution’.
Gullible AF as shown by the massive upvotes you get from the many libs here.
They will all be hearded back into the status quo sytem by Bernie or AOC the new sheepdog puppy in training to prevent revolution or a valid 3rd party.

Sad that even a non-american as yourself, not confined to thinking inside the box can be this wrong.
The other side of the uniparty thinks like you and is refusing to admit their wrongs, how bad do you have to be to not be an alternative to fascists? All of them get what they deserve.

You supported a genocide.

Vote to make things a billion times worse

Your daily reminder that blueMAGA liberals don’t consider Palestinians human

(I’m also curious how they determined op is an American eligible voter in a swing state)

it’s always funny to see the redditor libs be like “this instance is so Reddit!” with zero self awareness. Why did they even leave Reddit lmao

Imagine saying “traitor” to the USA like it’s a bad thing.

Traitors to whom? The genocidal yanknazi empire?

Demand politicians worth your vote

Welcome to .ml, you’ll get the jokes now.

I don’t know on which community we currently are, but this is the most accurate depiction of what’s actually going on. Democrats serve the corporate elite and don’t really bother turning it left.

You might not have noticed but 90% of these posts come from the same user

The most braindead instance is still .world. It’s basically reddit in a nutshell

Look at this guy, believing there’s actually 2 sides

This is just blind unconditional loyalty to the Democrats with extra steps.

If your plan is really to get voting reform done, then obviously the best strategy is to make support for a candidate conditional on them supporting it - because democrats do not always or even “usually” support it. Otherwise, there is zero incentive to implement it and a strong disincentive to do so - you won the election using the old rules, but if you change the rules, who knows?

You types are so silly about this issue. The very reason that we need RCV is the same reason we won’t get it. In the same way that FPTP blocks popular support for other progressive causes like “Don’t do genocide,” it also blocks causes like, “Implement RCV.” It’s like if my car won’t start and you tell me to just drive it to a mechanic. If we have some mechanism for implementing RCV, we should also just use that mechanism to get the other policies we want.

Your position would be more sensible and coherent if you were looking to achieve it through a mechanism outside of voting, but to insist on trying to use the tool you recognize as broken to repair itself is an absurdity, it’s completely irrational.

The only question worth discussing regarding voting is whether or not any conditions should be imposed on the democrats at all. If you say yes, then we can have a conversation of what those conditions should be, obviously, “supporting genocide” is unacceptable, but whether RCV should be a red line is another conversation. But if you say no, then your position on RCV is completely irrelevant, you’ll get it if the democrats say you do and won’t if they say you don’t and nothing about your behavior will change either way. It’s pure fantasy at that point, your support for RCV exists purely within your own mind and has no influence or effect on anything that happens in the world, you might as well be trying to wish a pony into being.

The concentration camps were there and expanded under Biden. The parties are not different on this, even if the Democrat-leaning media like to highlight it when Republicans are in office and minimize it when Democrats are in office.

I would still take blocking progress to the left over concentration camps every time

You had concentration camps under Biden.

I would still take blocking progress to the left over concentration camps every time

Um, blocking progress to the left was a major step in creating the concentration camps. That’s how it works, my friend. We’ve been saying this for several decades. Maybe one of these days the message will get through… Not today, though.

Nobody’s debating this. What are you going on about.

Democrats commit genocide and post the🙏 emoji

Republicans commit genocide and post the 🤣 emoji

No “vote blue no matter who” and not demanding actual representation is how we got Trump. People got duped by a con becuase they have never seen the real thing, so anything different can look appealing to the uncritical.

Of course there was some good legislation along the way. Nobody is denying that. But the crisis we face now is there because the Democrats decided to ignore the danger. It really is that simple…

You can start with Citizens United. You can talk about the Dems after 9/11, the illegal drone strikes, Guantanamo Bay, Abu Ghraib, how the Dems celebrated the human rights violations then, which leads us to El Salvador today. You can talk about stacking the courts, which was a plan publicly announced in the 90s, that the Dems never seriously tried to stop, leading to the current Supreme Court…

If you want to say, “Well, the Dems are less evil,” then great, many people partly agree. But that’s not good enough. They fucked us all over by not stopping the Republicans from doing really horrible shit, even though we all knew what was coming. Maybe in a few years we can write on Biden’s tombstone “Not quite as evil as Trump.” Would that make anyone happy? Is that something to be proud of?

Democrats took America from gays are illegal, to full gay rights with marriage.

Gay marriage was legalized at the federal level by a conservative-leaning Supreme Court. The only time a Democrat acted on same-sex marriage nationally was when Bill Clinton banned it by signing DOMA in 1996.

Environmental laws have been all Democrats.

Nixon created the EPA.

If Democrats did nothing, Trump wouldn’t have signed 76 executive orders reversing Biden orders on his very first day.

If Democrats passed legislation, Biden’s achievements couldn’t be undone through executive order.

The parties are not the same, especially now that one of them is openly fascist, but you’re giving Democrats credit for things they did not do. Also, the meme doesn’t say they’re the same, it describes the rachet effect, which is an accurate representation of how Democrats behaved on multiple issues. Look at how their economic policies have changed over the last 30 years, or how their views on immigration policies have changed since Trump was elected.

No, the DNC is why we have trump. It’s on them.

Obama wasn’t perfect at all, but his platform was at least change and progress. While he was originally against gay marriage he did listen to the public and change for re-election. If the DNC listened to the public instead of fighting against progress that would be great. But like… Biden was the throw away to conservatives for Obama’s VP to “balance out” Obama being progressive….And now he was their best idea on what to do for a better future? It’s pathetic, and demonstrates the above.

No one is trying to say Biden was worse than trump. They’re saying the DNC is what even allowed trump to exist, by being greedy fucks who care more about their handlers than the American people and running the worst candidates they can. “Nothing will fundamentally change” is the dumbest, most “fuck you don’t bother to vote for me” fucking campaign I’ve ever heard.

Socially left on some issues and economically right on all issues isn’t left.

actually, your candidate running a dogshit campaign and telling everyone to the left of them to fuck off is why we have trump. we warned this would happen, too. anyone with a memory span longer than a pet goldfish remembers all of this.

Decades of lesser evil voting is why you have Trump

LOL no it isn’t, Trump or someone like him was an inevitability because US elections are fixed and the people who have actual power in your society, Corporate board members, want fascism.

“Both sides bad” is why we have Trump.

You have Trump because you have capitalism and the reactionary political class serves a purpose in it. Liberalism tells you to only think of politics in a vacuum: whatever the last election was and what the next election is. In this vacuum they limit the world of politics down to what the two capitalist parties promise for capital, which varies and triangulates over time. The GOP was originally a party of free states and slavery abolition and the Democrats slavers and Southern white racists. Look at how they shift over time, both parties existing now for over 120 years. If you only ever look at the previous and next 4 years of what the capitalist political duopoly gives you, you will never understand the currents or why your “good guys” are increasingly xenophobic and transphobic or how political choices are actually made, because it is not just every four years at a ballot box proxied through some weirdos in the electoral college.

Anyways, both sides are bad. Have you already forgotten Biden’s genocide in Gaza? Dems’ “tough on the border” pivot? Breaking the rail strike? Being competent stewards of imperialism? I think liberals like to forget Blue Crimes, they are basically told to do so by mass media and it doesn’t comport with parasocially liking the sunglasses ice cream guy if you acknowledge he’s a genocidal racist. It isn’t really your fault to be in that bubble, but it is on you if you don’t seriously listen to others taking the time to explain its problems.

Democrats took America from gays are illegal, to full gay rights with marriage.

Absolutely wrong. Gay rights were popularized by left struggle, not struggle from Dems. Dems were dragged there by younger people that were radicalized by the people actually fighting for gay rights. Pride was a riot. The liberal assent and cooption was lagging, not leading. And in the US, gay marriage at the federal level was created by fiat of unelected lords (the Supreme Court) and not Democratic policy, despite Dems having full control of Congress and the Presidency in the neighboring period. Finally, gay rights are not full. I don’t understand why you think they would be. Gay people still face all kinds of oppressions in the US and the law only rarely protects them.

Environmental laws have been all Democrats.

This is simply factually incorrect. Early “environmental” laws were largely implemented by Republicans, including Teddy Roosevelt, also a racist genocidal war criminal. This was in many ways responding to muckrakers and organized labor who saw the environment, living conditions, and working conditions as inextricable.

Nixon signed the EPA into existence.

If Democrats did nothing, Trump wouldn’t have signed 76 executive orders reversing Biden orders on his very first day.

Democrats don’t do nothing, they just avoid doing the vast majority of things good for humanity in general and even just the US citizen working class. Even when they promise to do so, they have an excuse and whipping boy ready to go. Oh, Ovama and the national platform said single-payer? Sorry there’s Lieberman and we can’t kill the filibuster and oh man no discipline at all. Cancel student debt? Oh sorry there’s a parliamentarian that we can just override and fire and okay we will issue a conspicuously legally weak executive order and then fold at the earliest opportunity.

But Democrats do implement policies, they just do so in the interest of capital. Their platform represents certain formations of capital, the GOP’s some others, and they share many donors. The different formations undo each others’ work when in power. Or at least they don’t flex their muscles until something is intolerable to them.

Spoken like a Weimar

Correct. Not to mention the midterm congressional elections that only see ~20% turnout, and even less in the congressional primaries. The overwhelming majority are retirees, who will almost always pick the most conservative option in their party. People love to complain about term limits and appeasement centrists, but they don’t show up when they actually have a say in who represents them.

Accepting gays is definitely the same as funding sex change for prisoners and sending them to a female prison, which was one of the most successful ads in history.

The truth is though that ultimately, politicians are gonna be malleable to those who are going to vote

Literally not the truth; polls showed several times more voters wanted a ceasefire than who didn’t and Kamala still decided to go with wholeheartedly supporting the genocide.

Oh no, I entirely disagree. The majority of Washington Democrats are right in the corporate center. They aren’t working to make life better for the average person. If they were, why didn’t they seriously push for universal healthcare, raising the minimum wage, or regulating big banks and other monopolies?

(I know, you’re going to say the Republicans stopped them, but everyone who actually remembers when the Democrats had the majority knows better than that. But even if we’re mistaken, like our memories are entirely false, that would only show that the Democrats have the power to stop Trump right now, which they’re failing to do… Either excuse only goes to prove the aforementioned claim.)

I empathize a bit, but it’s not like democrats haven’t been getting more leftward either.

The furthest left democrat with any sway is Bernie “Israel has a right to defend itself” Sanders.

Most politicians are just not online enough to gather the discourse that we would be experiencing,

I think you don’t have to be online to understand several incredibly acute contradictions that are mounting at the moment, between the horrible brutality of genocide in Gaza, concentration camps at the border that have been active since the Obama years in addition to CECOT and Guantanamo, the coming climate collapse, erosion of queer rights, and all manner of civil rights. These phenomena signify a movement of the entire capitalist ruling class, who wield empire in their hands, to the most extreme forms of violence. It’s a bipartisan affair. They aren’t carefully measuring public opinion, Joe Biden deliberately went out and confidently lied about Palestinians beheading Israeli babies while the IDF massacred the children of Gaza. There is no calculation of how to balance public concerns in that action, they only want to control you and brutalize the weakest among the oppressed people of the world, to consolidate power in uncertain times and weather the storm. If the public rejects the carrot, we get the stick and that’s Trump. They want you to be a good little peasant and go back to the carrot while they slaughter the people of the oppressed nations and the most marginalized minorities.

Some do forget over the years, but a lot join politics because they genuinely want to make life better

She’s only one woman, but she’s probably the most visible example of this myth. AOC is not a “bartender and community organizer turned political leader” she’s a Democratic Party plant who operated an LLC that received mysterious funding and became a prominent political figure out of nowhere. Obama has a similar legendary backstory as a “community organizer” but his family on his dad’s side has intelligence ties. I don’t think every single local politician is part of some crazy conspiracy, though, but you’re engaging in some level of magical thinking if you think the Democratic Party can somehow be run by well-meaning local leaders, in a world where the establishment can create an AOC to capture and redirect public sentiment very easily.