• november
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      10
      ·
      2 months ago

      As opposed to the extremely non-emotional arguments such as “But I like how meat tastes” and “cheese tho” and “for every animal you don’t eat I’m gonna eat two”?

    • leisesprecher@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      2 months ago

      And what exactly is a logical reasoning?

      Pretty much all political reasoning is emotional, but for some reason, only the “other side” gets emotional.

      Wanting equality is an emotional reason. Wanting absolute freedom is emotional. Freedom of speech, aristocracy, fascism, anarchism, progressive income tax are all, if you keep asking “why?” emotional choices.

      If, at any point, someone says something is good or bad, well, that’s emotional, simply because these are purely human categories that are not rational.

      • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        2 months ago

        You can make a purely rational environmental argument with reducing CO2 emissions.

        A pure appeal to emotion is showing slaughterhouse footage or other animal suffering.

        A utilitarian philosophical argument about reducing suffering is also logical, not emotional.

        A emotional spiritual appeal can be made with karmic debt accumulated or similar.

        • 🏴 hamid abbasi [he/him] 🏴@vegantheoryclub.orgM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          2 months ago

          I don’t give a flying fuck about CO2. I care that you are murdering an animal and ending its life for no reason. Animals have rights including the right to live without your torturing them and mudering them. Everything else is out of scope for veganism. It is an ethical position advocating for the rights of animals, not a utilitarian calculation.

        • NaevaTheRat [she/her]@vegantheoryclub.orgM
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          2 months ago

          You can make a purely rational environmental argument with reducing CO2 emissions.

          Please do this without resorting to an emotional motivation such as “People enjoy being alive and not suffering” or whatever.

            • NaevaTheRat [she/her]@vegantheoryclub.orgM
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              2 months ago

              What do to mean when you say “emotional argument”? I understand it as something like “an argument which rests on an appeal to an emotional experience” or similar.

              For example a mathematical proof is not an emotional argument, as a being without any emotions would be able to verify it as true.

              However “people don’t want to die, so you shouldn’t kill them” is an emotional argument as it fundamentally rests on the counterfactual “a person assumed to have qualia observing a universe in which they had been killed might experience negative valence”. Which only makes sense if the notion of another being you assume to have qualia being sad in a way which is impossible in reality upsets you.

        • leisesprecher@feddit.org
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          Of course that’s emotional.

          Reducing suffering is based on the idea that I don’t like suffering, therefore I don’t want others to suffer. That’s emotional.

          • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            2 months ago

            There are whole schools of philosophy around suffering, its necessity, and its reduction. Utilitarianism is one of that. Philosophy is based on logic, not straight emotions.

            If you say, “I don’t like suffering” to someone with a “no pain, no gain” shirt, your argument is weaker.

            • leisesprecher@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              ·
              2 months ago

              Philosophy is based on logic, not straight emotions

              Yeah, sorry, but that’s straight untrue.

              As I wrote before, every time you’re doing a value judgement, you’re arguing based on emotions.

              Saying shredding two animals causes more suffering than shredding no animals is a rational, provable statement. But whether suffering is bad or not, is a value judgement and thus not rational.

              If you say, “I don’t like suffering” to someone with a “no pain, no gain” shirt, your argument is weaker.

              And both of these statements are value judgement, you’re doing a category error here.