I’m sure the problem caused by a two-party system can be fixed by adhering to a two-party system
RCV undermines the necessity for a partisan vote. That’s why Cuomo - the party establishment pick - lost by 8 points to a local outsider with better politics and a cleaner reputation.
But I agree, at some point, you do need to support someone. And if that someone is part of a large political organization (aka a party) they can bring a lot of financial and labor resources to bare when organizing and implementing political reforms. In the case of New York City, which is functionally a one party municipality (Dems regularly swamp the GOP 2:1), Zohran’s entrance to the statewide political scene is a huge break from the traditional partisan politics that gave us Eric Adams and threatened to give us four more years of a corrupt, real estate entwined sex pest.
The fact that he’s got a large, active, well-financed DSA behind him - in a way that transformed a coronation into a competitive primary - is a huge point in his favor.
The two party system is a symptom of the actual cause.
Although the cause is actively encouraged by the symptom.
& boy he needs to win
time to tell everyone NY democrats to “Vote blue no matter who”
Fuck I hope so…
Yo if telling yourselves that headline is what it takes to get you dudes out there to vote for the DNC so they can get to ending Citizens United, creating fair elections maps, taxing the rich, and expanding medical coverage: power to you. Let’s go!
No. AOC was.
AOC is going to need allies and a progressive coalition. We need to change the composition of the party from within in exactly this way. We just need way more of it.
I fervently hope so.
Every time something hopeful like this appears I start wondering if it’s safe to imagine that maybe things could get better here in the US. But so far I’ve been disappointed over and over. Part of me wants to just skip over the “maybe something good will happen” part and get right to the “oh, well, looks like he was assassinated by a blackwater hit squad” part. Money is power. The donor class gets what they want. And I have no faith that working within the electoral system will fix that.
I start wondering if it’s safe to imagine that maybe things could get better
It’s always safe to imagine. Imagining is the first step to a better place to live. But the dream can’t live in your head forever. At some point, you need to take action.
I have no faith that working within the electoral system will fix that.
Mobilizing a large group of activists around a set of tangible and popular goals is its own reward, whether or not the electoral system is accommodating to the politician’s success.
Is it though? Or is it wishful thinking?
Dems are cooked. Nobody is buying the old guard bullshit anymore. Embrace populism or go the way of the Whigs
Maybe, probably. They are going to gamble that they can stay the same because people are/will be so mad about… well everything.
They can prop up a white male moderate with an ounce of charisma, someone that is around 45. People will be refreshed that this candidate speaks in complete sentences and the capacity for empathy – like a real person.
That’s what they want, business as usual sold as a revolutionary idea. Will people buy it? Who knows… groups of people are pretty dumb.
None of us are as dumb as all of us.
They are going to gamble that they can stay the same because people are/will be so mad about… well everything.
They will 100% try to do this, but they’ll end up losing and then blame the voters they’re maligning. Mamdani is a case-in-point difference between status quo candidate turnouts and progressive candidate turnout. The 7% delta over Cuomo is the 7% they’ll lose if they try it again.
I’m no political scientist, but I’d think he needs to win the general before this can be said.
Beating well-established Democratic royalty on their home turf by a Muslim is a pretty solid punch in the face.
He even had Clinton’s endorsement. This was a very clear Fuck You to the Democratic party.
Was there actually an endorsement? All I’m finding is that Bill Clinton congratulated him on the primary victory.
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought you said he endorsed Mamdani.
It’s indicative of a deep, irreversible rift in the party. Either democrats adapt or they split in half.
Agreed but this is a good start.
For sure, but we’ve seen hope like this go down the drain before. The circumstances here were favorable I think. RCV primary against an unlikable and disgraced opponent in NYC is hardly a death knell for the national corpo Dems
The realistic hope I think is that Cuomo had support from extremely wealthy backers. New York Real Estate and Wall Street, Bloomberg, all backed Cuomo.
The people said no. The money didn’t swing it for Cuomo. The name recognition and the money didn’t swing it for Cuomo. The dynasties didn’t swing it for Cuomo.
Mamdani came in and offered real improvements to people’s lives and they gave him their votes.
Agreed as well, and I don’t wanna jump for joy yet but we gotta take our victories as they come. Hopefully this is a snowball that causes an avalanche of change.
I wish. It’s a clear message from the constituency, but no one ever blamed the DNC for listening ti their voters too much.
Either they listen to their voters and become a ‘new’ democratic party, or they’ll continue bleeding numbers and die. Either way, it’s still the beginning of the end.
I’m afraid it’s too late though.
It’s possible - arguably even likely - that the Dem establishment still won’t get the message and will instead continue to try to con us into supporting corrupt neolib hacks and will continue to undermine actual leftists.
In fact, I sort of half expect the New York party to abandon Mamdani and instead back a write-in campaign for Cuomo.
I wish I was kidding.
Even if they show never-before-seen integrity and determination and actualy shift back toward supporting actual leftists (or get replaced by a new generation of leaders who will), I still think it’s likely going to be too late. The longer Trump and his ilk remain in office, the more likely it becomes that opposing them will just get you on the next flight to some overseas concentration camp, or dead, or both.
Though I dont endorse accelerationism, when presented with that scenario accelerationism may be the only path forward. You cant keep hobbling for decades, slowly losing and falling further behind. It may be necessary to do what the nation is doing now: losing so that everyone can be reminded of what they had and what they want instead of being blissfully ignorant of both.
The Democrats are going to try to ratfuck him, sure. They’re never going to get the message
But this is how we clean them out. This is why AOC and Bernie are doing rallies - so that every seat that comes up is filled with a progressive. And this is a big seat
As for it being too late… Yeah, we’re fucked. But we can still make things better. There’s no reason to yield ground, maga is incredibly incompetent - they can be beat.
And there will be an after
100%. The DNC are not our friends and havent been for a while now.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the establishment decides open corruption is pretty cool actually and starts trying to rehabilitate Adams’ image. Seems like trying to run both Adams and Cuomo is a fools errand and Adams is stubborn enough to stay in regardless so they’ll have to go with him.
It’s Gotham City
They already have, for years.
Yeah hope has security detail. I worry ICE going grab him and disappear him. Especially if it looks like he will win the general election.
It is too late for electoral politics to save democracy, if that’s what you’re talking about. People like Mamdani are important for the day after, but Trump will have to be deposed much like his ilk in Ukraine and Tunisia.
I’m always very intrigued by those pushing the rhetoric that it’s too late to use elections to solve this, and admonish anyone that tries.
But at the same time they themselves refuse to start a revolution they insist is the only way. While simultaneously waiting for someone else to do it for them.
In the end the suggestion seems to be to not do anything and hope someone else does it for you. Be that by democratic means or armed means.
If you’re not starting the rebellion you sure as hell need to be engaged with the existing democratic proccess. Otherwise you’re just not doing anything at all. Which is the worst option
Not waiting for someone else but just trying to get people to understand that revolution is necessary. The people havent lost enough yet.
So first: You do realize there will likely be no free and fair elections until Trump is overthrown right? It’s too late to solve this using elections because there will be no elections. You’re in the equivalent of 1933 Germany after the Enabling Act, where the Act is substituted by the Republican majority in Congress and the lack of consequences for Trump doing whatever he wants.
Second and more relevantly, though: Revolutions aren’t just “started;” they happen when political unrest reaches a boiling point and is given some kind of trigger. You see the protests in LA? That’s building towards the revolution. A revolution can then turn violent due to violent backlash from the state, but either way it is literally impossible to “start” a revolution in the way you’re talking about. I mean hell, the fall of the Bastille wasn’t exactly planned; it just kind of happened. If a revolution does happen I’d put the start at the current LA protests, but I digress. The point is: To get a revolution, you don’t necessarily need to grab a gun and shoot cops, but you do need to resist on the streets. Again LA is a good example of what I’m talking about, so what I’m calling for is, for starters, more of that in more parts of America. Organize among your community and in your workplace and please someone go on strike already.
PS: I’m not American, so internet forums are about as much as I can get in on the action.
Is it possible that not being American your not fully aware of all the cultural views, different groups of people and their views, etc to be making these kind of declarations?
I don’t think so, no. At the pace democracy is being dismantled at in America, there is simply no possibility of a free and fair midterm. Remember that we’re still not even half a year into this administration.
That’s not all you claimed. I’m just taken back by the confidence in which people tell US citizens what’s happening in their own country and what they should do. Especially when people seem to get upset when Americans do the same thing.
That’s not all you claimed.
Then what else did I claim?
Especially when people seem to get upset when Americans do the same thing.
Do they? If you have a nuanced and informed take on Middle Eastern politics or know how to dismantle a military dictatorship I’m all ears.
Maybe in our current state, where corruption can occur, but in a new, more democratic system where corruption can’t occur because no single person will have enough wealth or the financial incentive to be able to buy politicians.
The problem isn’t electoral politics, but that we don’t live in a democracy.
I was talking more about the whole fascist takeover thing. The current batch of oligarchs and dictators has to go before you can fix anything anywhere, and by the next election cycle American democracy will be dead. The timeline simply doesn’t allow for an electoral solution.
Ah, I thought you were talking about the concept of electoral politics in general and not this specific moment in the US.
Agree 1000% ~ there’s not much hope left.
Looks like they already beat you. They want people to give up. You’re willingness to roll over accept defeat doesn’t reflect how the rest of us feel.
Ehhh zorhan primary win is more like first big hurtle. Now ZOHRAN has to deal with belligerent part of democratic party and independent runs
He already has, up to this point. In fact, big parts of the party tried to support his competition. They failed. He’s another in AOC mould. He may be good or great but there is an increasing trickle of progressive candidates.
The more that win by being good the more that can win without being so good. He may not be the Dems saviour but he’s a step in the right direction and a worrying sign for Republicans and establishment politicians.
Indeed, they dusted off big Bill Clinton even.
When I hear that Clinton endorsed a canidate my first thought was, who cares. That guy hasn’t been in office for over 25 years now. Talk about irrelevant
Its the Dem tradition of hierarchy, nepotism, and dynasty-slurping
It’s not for us, it’s for wealthier donors.
Yeah I’m just saying there’s a lot more to go even in this race alone. Just because ZOHRAN WON the primary that doesn’t mean the Democrats leadership will be happy about it
🤞
This is NOT true! The ONLY Reason he Won was because we DIDNT have Elon Musk Backing us or make our Platform CLEAR enough! Next time we’ll spend BILLIONS of Dollars LETTING people know we WONT do ANYTHING to Improve Their Lives! THAT will bring them RUSHING back to Us!
-Chuck Schumer and The DNC!
