- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
You must log in or register to comment.
I don’t see any appropriate backlash to any of his shit so far.
Yep. The only pushback is from the countries he wants to cleanse them into or the people themselves he wants cleansed. It’s self preservation.
The left strongly disapprove, but that’s it enough for a backlash. The leftists think Biden was just as bad and the right and diet-right voters don’t care or are happily on board.
I guess all the “Genocide Joe” commenters aren’t getting paid to skew the election anymore, so they won’t be here to comment.
I haven’t seen “Genocide Don” yet. Funny that.
Isn’t Trump’s middle name James? Genocide James works. And you could Photoshop him trying to look cool, like dark Brandon. But obviously just sad like some 60 year old trying to look cool at the barbeque and failing miserably, but even worse because he’s older… And trump.
It’s John (which also happens to be a pseudonym he’s used). You could say “Genocide John,” but nobody would know who you’re talking about.
That’s because Trump only just got in and hasn’t (yet) done anything close to what Biden did in terms of genocide
I’m here. Biden is a genocidal monster, and nothing Trump can do will change that fact.
.ml user with a braindead take? yeah, that checks out.
So you don’t think Biden was complicit in the genocide? The one he funded?
The fact that you place the entire weight of 80 years of US Israeli policy on its most reluctant participant demonstrates your agenda. If Trump was in office on Oct. 7, there would be no palestinian territories anymore. They’d be under the Israeli flag and stained with the blood of American soldiers.
The fact that you place the entire weight of 80 years of US Israeli policy on its most reluctant participant
Biden was not reluctant in the slightest and neither are you.
So much for the rational bit of your username.
Though, I guess you can be rational and wrong if you start from false premises.
Biden, and any other American president, can end Israeli wars with a single phone call.
Reagan did it.
Bush did it.
Clinton did it.
In fact, the Israeli military systematically doesn’t know how to end wars because they’ve never had to do it. America has always ended their wars.
It’s literally an aspect of their political ideology:
‘Oh our party can’t be blamed for the war goals not being accomplished. We had to stop because America’
You’re either so horrifically ignorant of recent history (my still living father is older than the state of Israel) that any opinion you spout can be tossed out (no matter how rational), or you know this and are trying to actively provide cover for a president who was happy with the slaughter of mostly children.
Which is it?
Edit: and to be exact, it’s 77 years. And the US wasn’t exactly friendly at the start due to the perceived communist sympathies of the young state. You know, the whole cold war thing? You may have heard of it?
Reagan started the 3 billion in military aid to Israel and the other two you mentioned continued it. And this is the very thing Biden is criticized for.
You say they ended wars with phone calls, without specifically saying what you’re referring to. But I can guess the following two things are true of Reagan, Bush, and Clinton: 1) they weren’t dealing with Netanyahu, and 2) they weren’t dealing with Hamas. Netanyahu was clearly not interested in ending the war until his buddy Trump was president, so there never was an option to bring “peace with a phone call”. Biden held back weapons to Israel, taking flak from how own party to do so - did any of his predecessors?
I’m not here to say Biden did enough, but you guys and the pro Israel side have something in common - you have a particular hate for Biden.
…
Really?
That is your response?
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=Reagan+Israel+war
There is nothing rational about you. It’s impossible to be rational with absolutely no historical knowledge.
It doesn’t matter who the leader of Israel is. Israel isn’t a real country. It doesn’t exist without continuous US funding. In fact, a third of ALL U.S. foreign aid has gone to Israel. Without free cash from the US, Israel goes bankrupt. Without free weapons from America, Israel goes bankrupt.
Any American president, at any time, can end any Israeli war with a phone call. That is, in fact, how all Israeli wars have ended. It’s actually hurt Israel because they don’t know how to set achievable war goals. Instead their wars end when America demands they do.
This is also the same deal Hamas had accepted since may. You mention them like they have been an impediment to the peace negotiations.
Biden held back one shipment of 2,000 lb bombs. A weapon that our military doctrine doesn’t allow us to use near population centers due to the likelihood of civilian casualties, and Israel wanted to drop them in one of the most densely populated places on earth.
Note that I said one shipment. We did provide them other shipments of 2000 lb. The only reason he held up that one shipment was to earn the respect of the utterly, foolishly gullible. Of course, he was required by the Leahy Law to stop all shipments to Israel.
Assuming good faith, which is a stretch at this point, you are utterly and completely ignorant of this topic.
Yeah, I have a hate-on for any worthless fucks that commit genocide. And when you have the power to end it, and don’t, then you are responsible for it.
Now, before you complain about me not providing links, spend 5 seconds trying to educate yourself by using Google. I’m not going to provide links proving the sky is blue, either. Some things you are responsible for finding out yourself.
The fact that you place the entire weight of 80 years of US Israeli policy
No, I just place the weight of the Commander in Chief refusing to abide by US law, and ending arms shipments to a genocidal rouge nuclear state, and preventing the UN from holding the genocidal rogue nuclear state to account.
If Trump was in office on Oct. 7
But he wasn’t, Biden was, and Biden made the choice to back Israel in its genocide to the hilt.
Yeah, you can’t get away with critising Dear Leader Biden on .world
And yet, here you are doing just that.
Now, let’s all take a moment and quietly imagine what would happen if someone should go to .ml and call out Putin for being a sad little coward that can’t take criticism without windowing someone to death…
call out Putin for being a sad little coward that can’t take criticism without windowing someone to death…
I do not think that would be an issue. Its not like Putin is even pretending to be a leftist, nor has he ever.
Seriously? The admin there refuses to answer when asked if they support Russia. And check the modlogs. They hand out vague “rule 1” violations that are critical of communism sometimes several times a day.
.ml isn’t just a safe haven for leftist trolls.
are critical of communism sometimes several times a day.
Criticizing communism isn’t criticizing Putin, who is not a communist.
I’ve had posts criticizing capitalism be removed from .world… So, obviously, they hate the US, right?
Still not hearing any trump criticism from ya…
Still not hearing any trump criticism from ya…
Criticize him for supporting a genocide in Israel? Last I heard from the neoliberals, that’s just a practical necessity, and we cannot blame Trump for 77 years of US-Israeli policy…
Brutal. Savage. Reckt.
Woah. What’s it called when you can’t tell sarcasm and serious apart? Godwinned?
The .ml troll that got banned, are they serious or are they playing? That went 0 to nazi in the fewest steps I think I’ve ever seen.
What are you talking about?
Your removed post at the same level in this chain. You called the guy you were slapfighting with a nazi and there was a Hitler comparison as well.
I can’t tell if you actually believe that, are just trolling, or are muddying the waters to control the narrative.
And I’m not hearing any criticism of Putin, Leobold II, Pol Pot, or Charles Manson from you. What’s you point?
Yup, more diversion. No one wants to engage with your bad faith arguments.
removed, you were the one who made the bad faith argument first. Don’t like your own medicine?
Removed by mod
Its braindead to not support a genocider?
Good, keep making yourself known so we know who to ignore.
You will ignore someone for calling a genocider a genocider?
Ok.
Block me dumbass
Nah.
“hmm, funny how all the people criticizing genocide Joe disappeared”
“No we didn’t, are right here”
“Blocked”
Block me then
I only started using the term after the election, I wish I was paid. It’s crazy how I’m expected to shut up about it for the next 4 years. Apparently, asking the dems to change their stance on genocide of everything is too much and everyone would rather stick their head in the sand. The moment someone enables it just a bit more then them, they get none of the blame and we get to wait through 4 years of shit just for them to give us literally the same stance.
Both parties enable it and are complicit. Defending either on the subject is clear bootlicking imo.
No one is defending either on the subject. We are simply stating that one is WORSE than the other by an order of magnitude. Honestly, how can you not see that?
It’s not just that he’s much worse it’s that some people somehow expected him to be better?!?
I don’t think anyone realistically thought he’d be “better”, unless you count the scum who consider “More dying” to be “better”.
I’ve seen multiple videos of people walking around interviewing people that voted for him and asking why. Lots of them stated that Biden arming Israel against Gaza was a major concern for them. None of the interviewers dug into what they hoped would change but it was clear they expected Trump to improve the situation for the people of Gaza. Now I’ve got no idea why they thought that - I certainly never saw anything to make me think that - but lots of people seemed have got that message.
nice anecdote, it decisively proves the argument
Isn’t there a word for a repeatable anecdote?
Not only that, but if you took them at their word, that donvict and Kamala would have been the eXaCtSaMe on Gaza, then that issue is cancelled out and you have to weigh all the other policy positions, and even then, it is clear that donvict is a TERRIBLE choice compared to Kamala.
They have no excuse. None.
Not only that, but if you took them at their word, that donvict and Kamala would have been the eXaCtSaMe on Gaza, then that issue is cancelled out
Not true.
You can refuse to support both of them because they are both evil, and you morally should not support evil. Even if one evil person will put more money in your pocket, or if one person will smile at you while your rights are being eroded while telling you nothing is wrong.
This is like choosing to do nothing in the trolley problem because you disagree with the notion of taking part in something that will kill people. Congratulations on keeping your hands clean while failing to prevent avoidable deaths. I hope your sense of moral vanity is satisfied.
This is like choosing to do nothing in the trolley problem because you disagree with the notion of taking part in something that will kill people.
Nah, it’s rejecting the entire scenario as being made up. Why not fucking stop the trolley?!?!? Its our foot on the throttle making it run people over!!
That is a great explanation of how I feel too.
You “rejected the scenario” but didn’t actually stop the trolley, and now it’s crushing people. Brilliant fucking job there with your out of the box thinking!
Here’s my excuse: I’m not American, and I’m not going to refrain from criticising a genocidal monster just because Americans treat their political parties like sportsteams.
His comment implies anyone speaking disfavorably about the dems stance on genocide is somehow a paid shill.
Read the rest of the comments. It’s always the same thing. The dems lost because the voters got manipulated into thinking genocide was something to draw a line over. Well it fucking was. I still think not voting and voting for Trump of all people is massively stupid but I hate the message we are sending.
Trump isn’t worse, he’s the same on it. We shouldn’t be calling them anything other then Genocide Joe and Genocide Trump. Biden did a lot of good but his whole legacy is not breaking with genocide.
We have 4 years to exert pressure and make sure the next candidate isn’t a mossad and wallstreet plant. Instead we are infighting like peasants and trying are hardest to not hold the politicians who are suppose to represent us accountable.
Biden did a lot of good but his whole legacy is not breaking with genocide.
Now Trump has already undone most of that good, has 4 more years to cause damage, and the genocide that you “drew a line over” hasn’t stopped. Nice job.
I voted strategically but I shouldnt have to do it while gritting my teeth. They offered nothing because they thought they had an easy win. If we keep pointing at scapegoats and refuse to lay the blame with the ones actually in charge, we get the same exact choice in 4 years and we will lose again.
Ya, drawing the line was dumb but so is blaming the ones that drew it instead of the driver that’s sending a train straight into a group of children.
They offered nothing because they thought they had an easy win.
Remember, nothing was…
A woman’s bodily autonomy. A Trans person’s right to comfort in their body. The separation between church and state. A birthright citizens right to live in their country. An employee’s right to a safe job.
And so much more… And it’s only been 7 days. Fuck anyone who said the Dems brought nothing to the table. You ignored what they were fighting to keep a hold of in order to parrot some bullshit Russian disinfo false equivalency about a genocide being committed by a different fucking leader in a different fucking country.
Why are you ignoring all the funds and arms sent to this entire different country? Do you think all that military aid is Russian disinfo?
A woman’s bodily autonomy. A Trans person’s right to comfort in their body. The separation between church and state. A birthright citizens right to live in their country. An employee’s right to a safe job.
Hate to break it to you, but we were losing ground on all of that, even with Biden as POTUS. Hell, a fair chunk of that happened when Biden was POTUS, and Dems had a majority in the house and senate.
And yes, don’t talk to me “But Manchin/Sinema!!!”… Fuck off. Because if they were so bad, why were the dems funding those campaigns? Where was the party leaders, demanding their people get on the line, or else lose committee seats, lose money, etc etc.
And why didn’t the Dems drop the filibuster from the senate rules packages? Simple majority vote for everything.
Its almost like they pretended to want to do things to better the working class conditions, without actually doing anything, in order to provide a constant feed of campaign talking points to run on.
You ignored what they were fighting to keep a hold of in order to parrot some bullshit Russian disinfo false equivalency about a genocide being committed by a different fucking leader in a different fucking country.
I would find the lesser evil argument more convincing if the people advocating it didn’t always turn out to be genocide denying conspiracy theorists who will ignore reality to defend unspeakable acts
Seems like you’re not actually capable of pragmatically choosing the lesser evil while still condeming it. Seems like you always end up defending evil.
they didnt offer nothing but it was ridiculous to parade around with Liz Cheney - possibly the least popular politician in the US. I can only think they were trying to get Trump elected
I hope you’re right about four years because that’s a return to normalcy that I can barely imagine right now
deleted by creator
His comment implies anyone speaking disfavorably about the dems stance on genocide is somehow a paid shill.
We’re easy to dismiss that way. Then they don’t have to think about how monstrous they have been to support genocide all this time.
Did you say you voted for Kamala?
She was the only viable option other than trump, as pro-genocide centrists were so fond of gloating. I voted for her. You gonna gloat that I voted for your genocide now?
Yep! You voted for genocide. Thanks for admitting that.
The paid shills were running a con. If you weren’t on payroll, then you’re the mark.
Seeing how most of the conmen have cut and run now that the job is done, it really only leaves one option for you.
I see a lot of people actively defending Biden in this very thread
There are a few stragglers around still. And just as sanctimonious with their tiresome and reckless high-flying rhetoric about how principled they are…
sigh.
Bro did you see that articicle about the x whistleblower and how elon influenced the election
I hadn’t; any source, by chance (or summarization, if not)?
Most of the genocide Joe commenters were russian bots. Those left were fooled by them.
BlueAnon in full force
Or, and this is crazy, Biden could have earned more votes for the DNC by using the Leahy Law and requiring Israel to stop committing war crimes if they wanted to continue to receive military aid.
Almost like it’s the responsibility of parties and politicians to earn votes in a democratic system. Not the duty of voters to vote for the “correct” party, which is what you see codified in Authoritarian governments. The writers of our Constitution specifically said the reason for having elections so often was to make sure politicians were responsible to the people, not the other way around.
So the more you try to blame the voters, the more you make them not want to vote blue.
I’m right here. Trump is gearing up to act as genocidal as Biden was but he’s not there yet
Genocide Joe. Genocide Trump. Feel better? I dont.
Hi I am here. I called Biden “Genocide Joe” because frankly that is an accurate label.
I am here commenting that I already have and will continue to shit on Trump for being a genocidal bigot.
Now can you proceed to take your foot out of your mouth?
What a shock that no one could’ve ever seen coming.
Oh wait:
I can’t believe there are actually people who are surprised about his ‘proposal’ at all. Like… everyone saw this coming, right? Plenty of people have been warning other people for years that Trump would do this sort of shit.
But hey, what do I know. I’m just an alarmist fearmonger. Or whatever they used to call me.
Plenty of people have been warning other people for years that Trump would do this sort of shit.
Frankly, he is just saying the quiet part out loud.
Or, do you think Israel ever didn’t intend to do genocide?
Oh no, of course not. Fucking Zionists.
What I meant was that it should be a surprise to no one that Trump says these things. He’s been letting the world know who he is for a long time. You’re right, no more dog whistles, but not exactly a surprise either.
It isn’t a surprise, no one’s surprised.
I don’t mean to defend the Democrats, but the Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic Party for the Gaza genocide. Which was wrong-headed as it was pretty obvious that the Trump admin would double down on US support to Israel… where the Democrats did do something to resolve the conflict.
I don’t mean to defend the Democrats, but the Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic Party for the Gaza genocide.
The Pro-Palestine crowd has been throwing all the blame on the Democratic party for the Gaza genocide because the Democratic party was in power for all of the span of the genocide until Trump and Republicans took power a week ago or so.
Let me explain this to you and please listen, now the Pro-Palestine crowd will throw all the additional blame on the Republican Party and Donald Trump for being in power as the genocide worsens because we all know it tragically very likely wilI.
That is how being against this works for most. It isn’t that hard to grasp.
where the Democrats did do something to resolve the conflict.
What are you referring to? Biden claimed to be “working toward” a ceasefire for 15 months then Trump’s ambassador went over there for 3 days and the ceasefire immediately happened.
Trump is pro-genocide and has no problem wiping out all Palestinian life but him and Biden are equally as bad on this issue
I think Democrats did what they could, but due to Trump and Elon being buddies of both Bibi and Iran (and Russia), sectarian gimmicks have supplanted conventional diplomacy. It’s now a matter of who’s with what team.
But that doesn’t take away that Trump is okay with ethnic-cleansing the whole area from Palestinian Arabs, to take ownership of Gaza and redevelop it for Israel. That’s probably what Jared was planning for years.
You have to remember though, the pro-Palestinian crowd doesn’t care about the rhetoric the parties deliver to the domestic American audience. Obviously the Democrats repeatedly claiming their working towards a peaceful resolution while not actually doing so, rather than Trump just coming out and taking the mask off matters a hell of a lot more than the actual damage and death happening in Gaza, but good luck convincing the loony pro-Palestinians of that.
B-b-but muh genocide joe & both sides are the same
Both are the same: genocidal monsters who want to ethnically cleanse Gaza.
most normal .ml take directly disproven by the article itself and the rest of the comment section
I’m willing to condemn genocidal monsters even if they’re Democrats
Stop fucking misrepresenting the points of the people you’re arguing with. Is that the only way you can “win?” If you create a straw man, and then talk about how shitty the straw man is?
Wow, impressive.
They’d have to make a coherent point for me to misrepresent
How about if they’re Republicans?
Then too
Looks to me like you were condemned for… this mess
Fewer Palestinians die today murdered by the apartheid state of Israel than they did one month ago. There is literally no difference, both the democrats and the republicans are more than willing to sacrifice the entire Palestine to their interests in the middle east
There is literally no difference
The LGBTQ+ and all free-thinking women in America would probably disagree.
No one voted thinking genocide would end. So I’m not sure what you thought would happen. There is a shit ton of nuance and complexity to that situation and it’s not going ways anytime soon.
But for the other damage trump has promised to cause- tell me…
Did you see Kamala Harris rounding up and deporting American’s born from immigrants? Did you see her restricting trans-rights to serve in the military? Did you see her dismantling our education system? Did you see her pulling us out of climate acts?
It must be nice to be so entitled that you can sacrifice the freedoms of other people because you decided to take on a brand new single issue protest.
Especially when that single issue has been going on for decades before you ever even knew about it.
Not to mention, with Harris, we could expect her to respond to backlash pushing her to protect Palestinians, she likely could have at least been pushed by public perception to do better.
Trump is going to do whatever Trump wants to do or is paid to do because he knows his followers aren’t going to abandon him, and realistically he’s not having to worry about reelection at this point (either he’ll term out, be made dictator for life, or decide he just wants to retire (or dies in office, which is entirely possible at his age)). No amount of protesting is going to move him.
Both sides aren’t the same, but they are in this circumstance. Don’t you want more differences between the two mainstream political parties?
“Clean out that whole thing.”
He doesn’t even pretend it’s something other than ethnic cleansing. Just literally “clean out” the Palestinians.
And we’re powerless to stop him.
And once again the media is creating apologetic headlines. I guess they want people to only realize the leopards ate their faces when they only have their Lying Eyes left.
“Does no one in the media know what it’s called when you ‘clean out’ an ethnic group and expel them from their land?” one commenter asked, adding: “Trump Calls for Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians From Gaza,” that is your headline.”
Well at least it’s not genocide!
/s
Here is my bOtHsIdEs Pikachu face. :|
I’m sure Kamala was going to be exactly the same. /s
Fuck off with this nonsense. Kamala would literally push the same policies, just like Joe did. The only difference would be that she’d use vague and hollow language to keep a pretense of humanity up so people could continue pretending that they themselves are not contributing to this atrocity. Your naive picture of mainstream Democrats is why that party continues to be as ineffective as it’s been for 50 years. I welcome all the neoliberal Lemmy downvotes. Assholes.
Removed by mod
That everyone who disagrees with me is a “neoliberal”?
No, just that anyone who doesn’t cut off someone for being a genocider is a neoliberal ghoul.
I’m sure Kamala was going to be exactly the same. /s
Pretty much the only difference is she wouldn’t say it out loud, frankly. She clearly stated she had Israel’s back, regardless of what anyone said. I mean, look at how she reacted to people stating, to her face, that they could not vote for her, due to that.
And what did she do? She doubled down on her support for the genocide.
She was, the only difference is she wouldn’t come out and say it bluntly to the American public.
Sorry screen reader users.
It’S BeTtEr ThAn GeNoCiDe
Stay on message, Democrats! Remember, it wasn’t the Democrats fault for losing, it was those loony leftists for going against the approved narrative of the Democratic Party. The Dems aren’t out of touch or negligent, and Bill Mahr is funny and relevant.
God the comments suck on this post
Well you sure showed those democrats by not voting huh? Like shooting yourself but calling it a win because you got blood on the other guy.
The American left has become so toxic, and splintered into micro groups with special labels who all hate each other and reject each other’s support while blaming each other and calling anyone even slightly right or even left of you an enemy. Meanwhile the right was united while trump and Netanyahu played you all so blatantly and obviously and you all bought it.
Well I’m sure Gazans thank you American leftists for staying home and letting trump win. I’m sure your blaming democrats will make them feel better
I did vote, but I was also trying to tell people that the whole strategy of browbeating wasn’t going to work. But that’s all the dems have to offer which is why they lost.
Someone was telling you this shit was going to happen and there was only one way to even have a chance of preventing it. You decided compromise was for losers and are now reaping the rewards of your ill informed, short sighted decision. Why are you whining so much, you got exactly what you were told you would get.
So did you! You got exactly what we told you was going to happen, yet its our fault it happened. Look at this post! This whining is on your side my dude. I just can’t believe you fools didn’t stop with the brow beating after such a catastrophic loss. Couldn’t do one fraction of a second of self reflection. I was not telling people not to vote for the democrat, but I didn’t hide my real feelings either.
A movement to withhold votes against Democrats has been building for years. the uncommitted movement is ideologically closer to liberal democrats than so called tankies, but Dems threw them under the bus, called them Putin influenced for protesting against a genocide in the only way they knew how. I was fighting for Palestinian liberation in different ways, I don’t really get too involved in electoral politics though I’m active politically. Never was I whining. God what projection.
It really demonstrates the two tendencies of liberalism: good conscientious people who are cool and hate injustice, vs. bloodless defenders of private capital who make noises like they care about justice so they can take power and broker influence.
Get a grip, do some actual criticism of your movement, do better for christs sakes. There wouldn’t be nearly as many communists and anarchists becoming radicalized if democrats were even a little effective. They are the only force that has the power to oppose the fascists and criminals in charge of the republicans. and they blew it, time and time again. Stop blaming the people, the fucking lemmy posters for Christ sakes, and start looking at your party,and namely where they get their funding.
this may require you to read and process information instead of just repeating what some 68 year old millionaire said. Which may take some growth on your part, so maybe hydrate and stretch a little first.
So… you’re actually saying that your protest successfully got trump elected- in defense of someone accusing you of helping to get trump elected….
No I’m saying that material reality affects peoples views more than your version where people are dumb babies; and acknowledging that, let alone standing next to us in struggle could have carried Democrats to victory, instead they abandoned even the semblance of ethics and morals other than “Cheeto bad.” Some people, and you may struggle with this because of an apparent lack of empathy or theory of mind, although maybe not, are not able to cash in their ethics and morals for a pat on the back and literally nothing else, from the same people who are resolved to continue the genocide. Maybe you can, but others have more character and compunction.
Hopefully someday you have experiences that stimulate growth as a person.
And like I’m not particularly partial to taking this view of you as some kind of vampire bereft of all reason and conscience. But when you do it to others, don’t get grumpy when someone calls you out on it. If you don’t like the way it feels, and if you think its possible that you might take a contrary position to me because of our roles on either side of this discourse, then think about how when you do it, it affects others.
Fuck me for thinking you should be better than that!
So… I’m having difficulty understanding because of your obvious intellectual superiority, but…
I’m going to need a simple answer here:
Did your protest work, or not?
Because if it did, then it would seem to me- in my humble ignorance, that you enabled a trump victory.
But if it didn’t, then it would seem to be, also in my humble ignorance, that you enabled a trump victory.
Be sure to use small words so that my brain can understand.
My question is answered by your question: did you and the democrats stand with the Palestinians or did you stand with Israel?
The organization you are defending with your bad faith questioning is one where it is impossible to stand with ones own principles against genocide. Democrats could not convincingly demonstrate that they would stand by Palestinians and end this genocide, even after the UN and an avalanche of international bodies, legally and scientifically proved that it was indeed a genocide that was occurring. Even then, there was just an uncomfortable shifting of feet as democrats who had been receiving campaign contributions on the order of millions of dollars over decades, were forced to either stand against that money or genocide.
They chose money, and the people who stood against the fascist oppression of the Palestinians, chose to stay home.
Because you know what didn’t work? Standing with Israel when the time came to support Palestine, and then expecting people to be guilt tripped into turning out to vote for Democrats. To be clear, i never once advocated for staying home on election day, but at least I was able to surmise it by looking at the situation.
You act like I’m putting on an air of intellectual superiority, but my standards for consciousness of the situation are actually quite low. I would ask that someone would learn about and think about the situation leading up to a particular event, which you seem to want to ignore; and I ask that you have a measure of empathy. Your inability to demonstrate either should not be read as my judgement of you, but your own guilty judgement of your own fucked up reasoning that you want to put on to me. Save it for your therapist.
As expected, walls of text without answering a simple yes or no question.
No, what they are saying is the Dem’s consistent refusal to listen to their voters, and instead thinking that voters “owe” their votes to the dems, is what got Trump elected.
How on earth does refusing to listen to voters equal losing an election without also admitting that you are responsible for the outcome of an election if this was your reason to protest vote/stay home?
You either had an effect on the election that caused trump to win via your act of protest, or you didn’t/ and therefore don’t get to say “we told you this would happen.”
If you didn’t vote in protest; or voted third party to send a message to the democrats, then you get to take the blame for trump. That is how a logical conclusion is made.
If you chose not to eat chicken because you don’t like it, and your only other option is to eat pasta, and you don’t like that either-
It is YOUR fault you are hungry, not all the other people eating their dinners.
Seriously…. Even children should be able make this distinction. But I guess that’s what happens when arrogance meets shame-
You get stubborn ignorance.
How on earth does refusing to listen to voters equal losing an election without also admitting that you are responsible for the outcome of an election if this was your reason to protest vote/stay home?
Because I don’t blame individual voters, for the decisions of the candidate running?
You either had an effect on the election that caused trump to win via your act of protest, or you didn’t/ and therefore don’t get to say “we told you this would happen.”
So, no fault goes to the candidates? At all?
It is YOUR fault you are hungry, not all the other people eating their dinners.
Isn’t it the fault of the person who only provided the food, and only giving the choice between shit sandwich and diarrhea soup?
If voters protest voting had an effect, doesn’t that mean the blame lies with the candidate who wholly ignored the voters? Because they ignored the voters during the election, its fair to say they would be ignored after the election.
Seriously…. Even children should be able make this distinction. But I guess that’s what happens when arrogance meets shame-
Yes, even a child should be able to make the distinction of genocide being evil, regardless of the purported justification.
And, here’s a spoiler: I voted for Harris! Yes, it was a very selfish decision on my part, because I have direct interactions daily with, well, most of all the groups that were being impacted under Biden, and now under Trump. At best, I was hoping for 4 more years of radicalizing people.
But guess what? I still am working to radicalize people.
No one said the candidate or the party takes no blame. That’s foolish to even think to assume.
But 90 million people didn’t vote. It’s safe to say that several million of those were single issue protesters. And then the over 3 million third party voters?
Yeah…
It’s your fault you’re hungry.
I’m not defending the party, the movement, the history, the people or their choices. I’m pointing out that no one wanted to hold their nose to vote and now we’re all swimming in shit.
Downvote me all you want. No amount of political theory will make the math go away. Every single person who decided to not vote, or to vote for catharsis, was a helping hand pushing Trump’s ass into the oval office.
Yes, the Democrats pissed you off, yes you should have still voted for them.
Its a hell of a situation we are in, but abstracting this one political act away from the movement, the people, their choices, the history behind it all, is the only reason you are able to look at the situation in such a limited way.
I believe you, that you want to get your intentions or beliefs untangled from whatever schemes political and economic elites are cooking. It is a great tragedy that people didn’t vote to keep Trump out. But if you want your individual beliefs to stand on their own and hold water on their own, then you have to extend the same courtesy to conscientious uncommitted voters.
For months people told me I was a bot for daring to suggest Biden was too old to run. Then that view was vindicated too late, and when progressives wanted to get in line behind Kamala, it was made pretty clear that other than uncomfortable noises and “concerns” about the genocide, money and weapons were still going to flow. Do you understand that this lesser evil messaging was doomed to fail? millions of voices on the left who are in no way hoping for another trump term were warning exactly this, and were silenced, not to mention beaten, arrested, kicked out of school or worse for daring to put their bodies on the line for Palestinians?
Maybe ask yourself why the most progressive stripe of voters withheld their vote, while millions of others just didn’t think, maybe wrongly, that it would affect them either way. Was there a conspiracy by Russia and other countries? I mean its been established, I think, that a great deal of this goes on. So let me ask you: in this situation, where democracy is being attacked from without and within, night and day by well funded and well organized forces, do you think that a mere vote every 4 years or so is enough to actually prevent the degeneration of a democracy? Or might it take quite a bit more effort? Second question: have the democrats proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are worth that vote, so that the critical mass of rational and conscientious people in this country would not have grounds to doubt their commitment to restoring democracy and overcoming fascism?
My answer to both questions is no. This does not make me naive or idiotic, but I’m afraid that is how I am made to feel, made to seem, by the mainstream of the Democratic party. And so were hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of other Americans whose conscience would not allow a vote for genocide.
The oppression of the Palestinian people didn’t begin on oct7, let’s not pretend that Democrats werent culpable before and after. Therefore there is good reason to doubt the dems would have influenced any meaningful change in the conflict
The only political act that was being asked of the millions who didn’t vote was to vote. That’s the only political act that matters in this contact. It’s the lowest possible bar in a democracy. Show up, check a box. I get that it sucks, but this, what we have now, is going to be so much worse.
Just to sum up my point: The system is rigged hard against any kind of progressivism. The left might be able to influence a Democrat, it absolutely will not influence a Republican, and a third party has absolutely zero chance of getting elected.
If third parties want clout, they have to build it from the ground up, and that means money in a capitalist system. Where’s all the third party money that’s going to help defeat the established parties? It doesn’t exist.
Again, I’m not celebrating his reality, I’m only pointing out that it’s always been that way and opting out of having a voice isn’t going to do shit to change it.
Not voting is hurting the people we care about, all for the sake of feeling better about yourself.
A system that restrict democracy to checking a box every 4 years while silencing peaceful opposition calling for peace, is not a democracy it is tyranny. You won’t be able to sell tyranny to me as democracy. And every cycle that the deep political corruption at the heart of the Democrats exposes itself for what it is, more and more people see it for what it is.
They didn’t create these contradictions, neither did you and neither did I. But many people are responsible and benefit directly from the carnage. And your plan to oppose them is to stay dumb and stand in line every 4 years.
I said it elsewhere, but it just shows the divide in the Democrats between the progressives and the establishment. The fact that you’ve resigned to a single unconscionable viewpoint doesn’t mean that other people are stupid for going the opposite way. The Palestinian people have been the victims of liberal pragmatism for 75 years. I know you want to collapse all morality and ethics into a single moment when a ballot is cast, but seriously don’t you think that view is somewhat convenient for the establishment? Is this the society you want to take part in and participate in?
No its not, you dread to do it but once every 2-4 years as a matter of duty. But people who don’t subscribe to your sense of moral duty, no different than the enemy right? Cant you see how self defeating it all is?
Refusing to participate grants you zero benefit, and makes it easier for the system to continue.
This has nothing to do with political viewpoints, this is math. There’s no way in hell you’re going to tear it down from the outside so what’s the plan? Sit there and feel smug that you did nothing while everyone suffers?
Checking the box is the bare minimum, and you couldn’t even do that, because it made you feel icky.
Your protest vote, or non vote (same thing), holds negative value for the people of Palestine.
there was only one way to even have a chance of preventing it
State level electoral reform so people can vote outside the two party system without a spoiler effect
Someone was telling you this shit was going to happen and there was only one way to even have a chance of preventing it
Preventing what? A genocide?
Harris was all on board with it.
Well never know, she’s not the president.
Trump, the guy you enabled, however, Is. And he’s a fucking nightmare.
He wants to displace every Palestinian by force and hand their land to Israel.
Is that what you non-voted for? Take a plane to the Gaza Strip and preach that on a corner, see how well that works out for you.
I voted for Harris, even though I didn’t want to.
End result, for Palestinians are the same, regardless, though. She supported a genocide of them.
Sure buddy, of course you did.
Well, the truth can sting a little if you’ve just found out you’ve been fooled. The important thing is to grow up and learn from your mistake.
Of course it is ethnic cleansing. But in his opinion, it is the good kind of ethnic cleansing. Just like deporting immigrants, or sometimes even Native Americans…
And they’ll eventually realise that “good” ethnic cleansing is actually quite expensive, and who will really miss them anyway?
Trump’s administration should really just come up with some sort of, ‘last answer’. Something cheaper than deportation, doesn’t let those undesirables the opportunity to come back in, and sends a message to any other undesirables. I just can’t think of what that could be. /S
Oohhh, like some sort of solution? Like one that’s final?? Hmmm…
Of course, if USA really wants the Gaza population to be displaced, it would be consistent for them to take on a significant proportion of them as immigrants.
And they wouldn’t even be undocumented migrants!
But they would still be brown :(
Centrists are suddenly unhappy now that trump is implementing their only policy for them.
Backlash only matters if he or anyone he surrounds himself with actually gives a shit.
Hell, it only matters if anyone cares, and based on the Dems and GOP in the US, neither of them really, honestly care. And most Harris supporters don’t care either, as well as, well, I can safely say no Trump voters care.
deleted by creator
Yeah it is there fault we lost!
Not the fact that democratic party did worse than nothing to listen to the voices of people with connections to Palestinians.
deleted by creator
Love that all the pearl clutchers are in this thread to say that NOW the genocide is bad, as if they’ll catch leftists in a whataboutism.
The truth is that Trump is giving the same carte blanche that Biden did to Bibi. It remains on the people of Israel to stop this conflict, as it always has. You can’t pretend the genocide is only bad when your enemy is doing it, this was the same plan under Biden. Trump just likes bragging about the cruelty, whereas Biden was smart enough to pretend to care.
Both candidates are bad on one issue so it’s all the same! No. Fuck you.
Both candidates were bad on a lot of issues, but I’m glad you jumped to a conclusion that I never stated to prove my point so quickly.
People clicked this thread for the topic of this issue. So, he’s making a point about this one issue. Don’t see any statements claiming Trump has a level head on anything else.
Well, one candidate was bad on their economic policies. Starting off with “The economy is doing fabulously, so you poor people just need to shut up, and vote for me because you owe me your vote” policy…
Yeah… how silly to base the economy doing well on data and facts. My gut tells me it’s bad.
If the whole world is doing badly economically, but we’re doing much LESS badly, then the economy is fine. What’s NOT good is education, which is why people aren’t smart enough to see this.
Yeah… how silly to base the economy doing well on data and facts.
Oh, data you’re interested in?
Ok, how about the data point that says homelessness is skyrocketing? Does that mean economy good, just because stonk line goes up?
If the whole world is doing badly economically, but we’re doing much LESS badly, then the economy is fine
Less bad is not at all the same thing as “doing great”.
What’s NOT good is education, which is why people aren’t smart enough to see this.
Yes, people are not smart enough to see if you have mass homelessness, mass food insecurity, and people considering copycatting a CEO killer… The economy is doing great!
You’re adorable. Homelessness went up, but unemployment is way down. I didn’t say we were doing great… but Biden kept us from being as bad as everyone else. That’s successful leadership.
Biden doesn’t control the things you’re crying about… and Trump will DEFINITELY make it worse.
You maybe think unemployment is down, because people now have 2 jobs each, and still starving and homeless?
No, the economy is shit. And Harris was telling everyone the economy was great.
Gotcha… why didn’t you just START with “I’m stupid, and am immune to facts”? You’d have saved me time.
Voting for the guy who campaigned on taking actions that would very obviously make it even worse for the poor people, over the guy who tried many things to further help poor people but was blocked by the opposing party in Congress, was a real big brain move of yours.
Jokes on you, I gritted my teeth, and voted for Harris. I just didn’t aid her campaign, and chose to 100% work on a local socialists’ campaign.
Same
I’m glad you saw the importance of working locally. Too many third party wishers think they can jump immediately to the presidency
Given how concerned you are with 3rd party voters, surly you’re working towards replacing First-past-the-post voting in your state.
The election is over, now is the time to make the changes we need so people can vote outside the two party system with no spoiler effect.
So, which is it? Do you support democracy or do you get off screeching at disenfranchised voters to vote for your blue conservatives?
If you strip all the politics of nuance, everyone is exactly the same and nothing ever happens
This too shall pass and once it has, we shall remember the names of those that pushed genocides, those that pushed anti science that will inevitably cause the next pandemic.
I mean this is a pretty weak ass take and it’s not even really right. Like after this “passes” we will be fully locked in to rocketing off the edge of the climate abyss and there is nothing anyone could possibly do to prevent it. They will try with Geo engineering but that’s a toss up at best.
No one will remember anyone.
Climate change has a relatively cheap and easy solution.
Aresol sprays can buy a few decades of time if things get too hot.
We already have cheap solar and cheap batteries are becoming a reality. We only need a cheap, non-intermittent energy source to provide baseload energy. Cheap nuclear power is possible and can fill that niche - we had the tech in the past and China has it today.
For about $1T a fleet of reactors could be built to extract all the excess carbon from the atmosphere in 50 years, working in tandem with cheap solar energy and cheap batteries to power human civilization.
Are you under the delusion the climate disaster is confined solely to energy production?
Also the laws of thermodynamics say that pulling all of that carbon out the air would be not only inefficient to the extreme and take centuries, it would also use far more energy than we currently produce ON THE PLANET.
I have no idea where you got 50 years from, but that’s a joke. we couldn’t build the shit you would need to do it in 50 years.
The laws of thermodynamics say no such thing. Plants use solar energy to extract carbon from the atmosphere daily.
We could farm fast growing crops and bury them to sequester the carbon, but using nuclear energy is going to be cheaper and require less land.
E = mc2
People really don’t understand the massive amount of low carbon energy we have at our disposal with nuclear fission.
An unwillingness to use it just means we don’t want to solve climate change and would rather have our little “oh noes, world is ending” panic.
China seems to be the only big economy that understands the reality and they will probably solve climate change for the rest of the planet by 2050.
How long does it take to build a reactor: 15-25 yrs each Main component of construction: Concrete, a major contributor to CO2 emissions How many would we need to produce the energy required to run carbon capture infrastructure: ~1500
For your alternative, it has more merits but the main drawbacks come down to where do you grow it, and how does that effect the environment around it. Growing a shitton of kelp is going to create problems with nutrition in that area. I like this method most but the scalability is still a major problem. The amount you would need to grow is STAGGERING. I don’t know how we could do that and still have any coastal sea left open. Maybe massive floating barges in the open ocean.
It only takes that much time and cost in the West, because we killed nuclear with regulations.
Look how many reactors China is building.
I refuse to take anyone seriously that spouts this level of ignorance on technological matters.
You were claiming that a single country could undo all of this. I really don’t know how you take yourself seriously. Look at any data. There hasn’t been a pause in acceleration let alone a slowdown.
Its not cheap and not a solution.
It will give us a temporary reprieve at best. We still need to solve the issue by lowering the CO2 in the environment. Chemically speaking, you’ll basically have to spend the same amount of energy to pull all the CO2 out as we got over the past 200 year by putting that CO2 in the atmosphere.
That is if we have 100% efficient machines, however. In reality most combustion engines get 30% at best. Electrical system to pull it out will do some 70%? Let’s call it 50 on both, so you’ll have to double the amount of energy that this cost twice.
Basically, to get CO2 back to preindustrial levels we’ll have to spend 4x the amount of ALL the energy we’ve spent over the past 200 years.
You say it’s cheap? Basically double all energy prices (and with that, the prices of everything and destroy all economies) for, say, the next 50 years or so and generate twice the amount of electricity we do now, and we’ll be fine.
Why comment if you don’t understand physics. I’m not saying turn the carbon into hydrocarbons, which is wat you are implying.
Carbon sequestration takes way less energy than the energy released during burning.
Why comment when you’re just randomly going to claim that ther person you disagree with must not know the subject because they disagree with you?
Sure, don’t convert back to hydro carbons. Where are you going to store all that CO2 in a way that you know it guaranteed won’t escape?
Do you have any idea how much CO2 you’re talking about? Are you going to store it in high pressure tanks? Are you going to freeze it maybe and put it in caves? Pump the gas underground and pray it won’t sleep out?
The reason that I’m talking about converting it back to hydrocarbons is exactly that: you need to store it somewhere stable and reliable. For the incredible amounts that we have to store, there aren’t that many options beyond making hydro carbons and storing those
Perhaps read an introductory article on carbon storage, or ask ChatGPT:
Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS): This involves capturing CO₂ emissions from industrial sources, transporting it, and storing it underground in geological formations.
Direct Air Capture (DAC): This technology captures CO₂ directly from the air and stores it underground or uses it in industrial processes
It’s a sad state of affairs that a fellow human being is more insufferable to talk to than an AI.
Yeah, you’re right, you are insufferable and sad.
Having said that:
The amount of CO2 to store, depending on how far you want to go with removing all the CO2 humans have put in the atmosphere goes in the order of cubic kilometers. Humans have been, and continue to be busy beavers. Good luck with storing that in tanks.
Storing it in geological formations may be possible in a limited fashion but since it would be in gas form there is a litany of problems with that if you want to be absolutely sure it won’t escape.
Instead of removeding and moaning it may be more productive to just, you know, stay on subject.
Its even cheaper than your estimates…
We just need to plant trees, and get our forests to grow again. Like, the earth has these fabulous organisms that clean greenhouse gases out of the atmosphere… And they are self-replicating!
And due to climate change, they are sadly burning like crazy.
