I escaped the Reddit regime a little while ago. I consider myself a marxist-leninist-MZT. Vegetarian and vegan for a few years. I’ve a lot of thoughts on how marxism and veganism are connected. Never wrote them down. I’d like to start smth like a club for marxist vegans to develop our own proletarian theory. Most vegan theory I found is either openly bourgeois (Francione is a literal TERF) or revisionist (anti-China, anarchist, libertarian). How about fixing this?

    • queermunist she/her@lemmy.ml
      18·
      6 months ago

      Well I do a lot of physical labor, so during a work day I eat: a bowl of oatmeal, two veggie wraps with a soy+pea protein shake, a large bowl of fried beans and rice, and then a second soy+pea protein shake before bed. No milk or eggs required.

    • CarlMarks@lemmygrad.ml
      9·
      6 months ago

      Those are plastic things, you can change them like any habit. The discipline we must acquire to organize effectively is already more difficult than just not eating animal products. It is even a passive act! For me there was no real difficulty whatsoever, just a period where I learned new recipes and my palate adapted.

      It is also something where if you don’t see value in changing the habit, you will focus on reasons to not do it. This is normal. But if you were vegan, which is an ethical orientation towards animals, you’d be more motivated to find a way to make it happen.

        • CarlMarks@lemmygrad.ml
          11·
          6 months ago

          Bruh where did you get idea I want to change anything in the first place?

          I implied that you didn’t and that this was why you were focusing on barriers. If you had a vegan ethical stance you would be able to find a way.

          This isn’t a sweets and chocolate situation you have to choose to stop when you’re getting to fat, this is natural and completely normal diet of human beings.

          I’m not following your logic. But appealing to normative or historical practice is not enough on its own and is, for example, how reactionaries justify themselves.

          I’m not a herbivore.

          I am and it was easy.

            • ☭CommieWolf☆@lemmygrad.ml
              6·
              6 months ago

              I’ve just been reading your responses and I think one point you might want to be careful with is “Human Nature” as if it’s a fixed static thing. Humans are capable of all manner of things in our natural form, but that does not automatically mean that those things are inherently good, healthy, or moral. According to just basic natural ability, and simple evolutionary strategy, every man should go around impregnating as many women as possible in order to propagate his DNA to the next generation. This was what our ancestors used to do, and it’s what many animals do in nature all the time, which is completely biologically feasible. However, as humans we are uniquely capable of rational thought, and we have the ability to rise above simple animal behavior, which is why the average person won’t go around killing each other’s children and taking each others mates. It’s an extreme example but I was hoping to maybe give you some idea of how the “Nature” talking point can be twisted to justify things that any normal person would see as absurd.

            • CarlMarks@lemmygrad.ml
              6·
              6 months ago

              Guess what I don’t, because I’m an omnivore and I don’t want to change natural food chain just because 1% tells me to do so.

              You don’t what? I don’t understand what you are saying.

              That’s the first mistake of vegans, thinking that every human WANTS to change natural diet

              I actually said you did not want to twice already. Very first thing I said, I think…

              Though nothing in modern diets under capitalism is particularly “natural”. All of our foods are technologically developed, including basically all of our crops over thousanda of years, mostly through artificial selection and hybridization.

              and become like them oh so much but they just can’t because they’re ‘‘addicted’’ to natural food like it’s a heroin or cigarette.

              Hmm, did I say that?

              Because reactionary ideologies who harm and kill millions of people is the same as eating fucking chicken and drinking milk, give me a break.

              Hmm, did I say that?

              That doesn’t change the fact that humans are natural omnivores

              I would be happy to discuss the science of trophic levels, human behavior, and diets if you are interested. Calling a modern diet under capitalism “natural” doea not really make sense, though.

              that’s just your personal choice of diet and you’re acting like you got off drugs or became sober for that.

              I am? How so?

              And also doesn’t change the fact that that plants are also living things which you eat and further damage ecosystem.

              Everyone knows plants live, this ia not news to any vegan and it is not inconsistent to eat them. Animal agriculture is far more negatively impactful on the environment.

                • CarlMarks@lemmygrad.ml
                  8·
                  6 months ago

                  I don’t have any stance in the first place, that’s what I meant, I’m just eating like 99% humans at any point at history.

                  You’re actually not, though! Historically, humans were hunter gatherers with a diet fairly different from yours, I would bet. Think about what you would be eating if you needed to forage between the Euphrates and Tigris some handful of thousands of years ago before widespread agriculture. And then consider that humans were out there doing human things for hundreds of thousands of years before that. They weren’t eating storebought nitrogenated steaks from generations-bred, cornfed cows! Domesticated cattle did not even exist. There were Aurochs.

                  Bruh I don’t eat diets ‘‘under capitalistic companies’’, don’t eat fast food and the like, I eat food brought fresh straight from the village.

                  That is not a quote of anything I said. I’m saying that we live in capitalist societies with industrialized agriculture and our foods have been highly modified by humans. How do you define a natural diet? Does it include twinkies? Sweet corn? Winter Wheat? What does it really mean to call a diet natural or not?

                  You’re acting like you accomplished some huge goal worth of every praise like getting sober or stopping using drugs or lost a lot of weight

                  Actually, I said it was easy for me. That is the opposite of what you are saying I said.

                  when all you did is literally just change diet and try to force other people into it.

                  How am I trying to force other people into it?

                  A chicken raised by grandparents on yard in village is more environmentally friendly food source than a plants imported from across the country or from abroad.

                  That depends on how it is fed. If you ever provide it with feed, this statement is probably false. And the vast, vast majority of chickens are given feed.

                  Is every chicken you eat a backyard chicken not prpvided with feed?

    • Moonworm [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
      8·
      6 months ago

      It’s not trivial, but lots of people do it. There are substitutes if you really miss like cheese, but there’s also a whole fucking world of delicious vegan cuisine. Indian is a good place to start. It can seem scary to give up a bedrock sort of comfort like a kind of food you eat, but it can actually be kind of freeing to realize that you don’t actually need it. I’m not vegan, but I started to not eat meat during Lent a couple years ago and it was a pretty revealing experience. I recommend it to people.