Can’t wait to hear your thoughts, comrade

I liked this essay more after re-reading it.

This essay has 18 dense chapters. Most of them can be expanded.

It didn’t talk about how much mainstream idea of veganism (superstructure) is formed by capitalism. If you go to the mainstream websites, veganism looks like it’s only about food and crazy raw foodist parents. The bourgeois mainstream never presents vegans in a good light. The bourgeoisie is really interested in making vegans look bad.

Marxism is not only about explaining things but also about how to change things. We explained why marxism needs veganism. How do we integrate it into marxism if most “marxists” are carnist? AES states respond somewhat to the environmental arguments of the last chapters: https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/food-policy-snapshot-china-five-year-agricultural-plan-cultivated-meat/

To the urgency of veganism for socialism, it’s not just the environment that we need to preserve to survive. Communism a priori can’t commodify animal BEINGS. Fuck, carnism can’t just fit into a communist society. How’s someone a commodity just for being another species? It’s a dumb idea that’s 1" away from justifying slavery.

What can we do about veganism now? Here are my thoughts:

1. In the current state of the world, the working class, me included, are struggling to survive the imperialist attacks that feel like fighting a bear. This contradiction alone is too big for us. Under capitalism and early stage of socialism (modern AES), we vegans must focus on the biggest enemy.

2. Continue our peaceful marxist vegan agitprop. Socialist countries really respond to environmental arguments. We must use that. From IX: “We do not exploit animals because we deem them to be inferior, rather, we deem animals to be inferior because we exploit them.” To me this sounds like it doesn’t matter what way we make people exploit animals less. If socialist gov accepts our arguments and promotes a plant-based diet only for env and health reasons, then ethical veganism will still grow from this. A lot of people will just stop seeing veganism as this impossible thing as presented by bourgeois propaganda.

3. One day, imperialist capitalism will become weak after socialist states become strong and many. That day, we must really confront speciesists just like we do capitalists. Not peacefully.

For a moment MUTB sounded like they deny modern AES: “it is regarded as an overly simplified theory and as an authoritarian ideology which has become obsolete with the end of actually existing socialism”. This was what mutb says anarchists think of marxism. I’d add a small remark that modern AES is real.

MUTB quotes Marx saying: “Men can be distinguished from animals by consciousness, by religion or anything else you like. They themselves begin to distinguish themselves from animals as soon as they begin to produce their means of subsistence.” Animals can also produce their own means of subsistence. That can be seen in crows and great apes. So, Marx here failed to distinguish humans from non-human animals. MUTB successfully found a correct distinction: “the working class can be the subject of its own liberation. Animals, in contrast, can only be objects of liberation.”

[email protected] [email protected]

You wrote you wanted to participate

Hear me out

Socialism is wrong, capitalism is right. Capitalists shall own the means of production because they are mean. Socialists shall only own the nices of production!

True vegans only eat 100% renewable electricity

There are already several people who responded. Should we just juse use [email protected] or create a simplex chat?

I am 3 day old but I lurked for a few weeks here. I’m not going to discuss veganism on this sub. I really didn’t use any “carnist” word here to avoid any tension. I wrote here to introduce myself (this is my second post) and to cover vegans who don’t read hexbear.

1. Yes, I’ll go there
2. No issue. I’m all for marxist cohesion. We want an effective community for our future revolution

The biggest problem is overcoming societal pressure. The second biggest is the period when you have to relearn what to eat

Here are my thoughts. Not polished but hope they make sense:

Point 1: Most socieities in a smartphone phase have a contradiction between the bourgeoisie that exploits animals and vegan activists. Farm workers take part in this exploitation but they’re not benefiting from it, they’re also exploited in this slaughter-hell. Animals don’t have a weight in this xontradiction because they can’t really fight back their oppressors. The people in general buy animal products but I think they don’t reall benefit from animal exploitation. Most people buy & use animal prod because they’re used to and attached to them culturally-emotionally.

Point 2: People actually care about animals, they just can’t change their habits. With each friend, I had at least a few convos on veganism. The most honest non-vegans tell me exactly that.

Point 3: People are speciesist because they exploit animals, not the other way around. Humans ate animals in the past because this helped them survive. Before veganism, I went “reducetarian” for health and environmental reasons. Only after that I went vegan.

Point 4: When capitalism started to dominate, animal industry appeared. This industry is interested in preserving speciesism. That’s why the bourgeoisie attacks animal rights activists so much. It even tries to ban anything that can push people towards veganism:

1. Suddenly, they care about product “misbranding”. It’s now “wrong” to call soy meat “meat”. Shouldn’t we ban saying “peanut butter” then?
2. Some Statesian States banned cell-cultured meat
3. Vegans are almost never depicted positively in Western sitcoms, cartoons and mass media
4. Bourgeois news websites spread anti-vegan misinformation. I’m bombarded by my relatives with bs articles saying “veganism either killed some baby of crazy raw vegan or science paper says veganism bad for health or actually not good for the environment”. Some of the articles come from “respectable” sources like BBC or CNN
5. Right-wingers are almost universally anti-vegan

https://nationalaglawcenter.org/cell-cultured-meat-updates-state-bans-labeling-requirements-and-regulatory-clarifications/

Point 5: All vegans must support socialism. Socialism will eliminate the bourgeoisie but speciesism will stay for much longer. Under socialism, it will be easier to eliminate speciesism because proletarians have no (or little) material interest in animal exploitation. You can convince a socialist .gov to make steps towards veganism for environmental and health reasons. China already does that: https://www.nycfoodpolicy.org/food-policy-snapshot-china-five-year-agricultural-plan-cultivated-meat/ With this, veganism will stop being seen as a fringe thing. People always ask me how am I capable of living without so many products. All the alternative foods will answer this question. People will slowly adopt these foods and eventually speciesism will crumble.

Here’s what we know about BRICS Partner Country status:

The status denotes an alternative to full membership, allowing participating nations to engage with BRICS but without voting rights. Partner status will be “as close to membership as possible,” Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov hinted earlier this year.

https://news-pravda.com/world/2024/10/24/806241.html