I escaped the Reddit regime a little while ago. I consider myself a marxist-leninist-MZT. Vegetarian and vegan for a few years. I’ve a lot of thoughts on how marxism and veganism are connected. Never wrote them down. I’d like to start smth like a club for marxist vegans to develop our own proletarian theory. Most vegan theory I found is either openly bourgeois (Francione is a literal TERF) or revisionist (anti-China, anarchist, libertarian). How about fixing this?
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no one lacks comprehension of the fact that humans have historically eaten meat. we’re just making the (obvious, factual) claim that you don’t require it to survive in any capacity. your body won’t shut down without it. i’m not particularly interested in how you like your corpses cooked, at this point i’m alternately making fun of your childlike palate and making it clear that your claim that humans “need” to eat dead animals is goofy as fuck and you should be embarrassed about saying something so ignorant.
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You should stop embarrassing yourself as you have clearly no idea about what you’re talking about.
It is healthy and sustainable. There is multiple meta-studies confirming it and many gouvernemental associations of dietetics and nutritions say so, here is one such example.
You are the one forcing your “lifestyle” on sentient beings just because you enjoy it. Stop for 2 minutes and think what your behavior actually entails and what this means for your moral system.
Its clear you have no idea about what you’re talking about when you say that calcium is something you can only find in sufficient quantities in animal products. Stop typing like a toddler and go educate yourself.
Or do you seriously hold the position that milk from another mammal is necessary to the survival of humans despite the vast majority of them being intolerant to it ?
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lmao I’ve visited the balkans many times, namely Bosnia and Croatia and never had any issues with being a vegan. You do realize there are vegans in the balkans right? Most people I met there were way more understanding of it than you seem to be, but I guess you think your region would beat up people for disagreeing. Sorry to disappoint you but your region is better than you.
All you do is weak appeals to nature and you even tried to justify your shitty view by invoking Jesus lmao.
You’re the one coming into a post specifically asking about how vegan communists could get together and antagonizing people, who is the one stirring shit up? I guess for you the only people that are nice are the people that don’t speak up about things they believe in. Are you a fucking centrist lib? “The only leftists I like are the ones that shut up about it” is a lib take comrade.
To educate you on milk as you apparently have never thought about how milk is produced, you do realize that mammals only produce milk when they have a baby right? Here’s how milk is produced in our society:
Killing is most of the process of producing milk. If you gave me the choice between being a dairy cow or a meat cow, I’d choose being a meat cow anyday of the week as at least the suffering would be lessened.
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Vegans stealing chickens and letting them in the wild where they cannot survive because they were born in captivity? Well, there are utopian animal rights activists – some eco-anarchists maybe – who happen to be vegan, who also do this kind of stuff. Veganism itself isn’t the problem here, but what it’s attached to. Please don’t roll the blame on vegans in general, we’re a diverse bunch.
The very moment a vegan – or even just a plant-based person – outs themself they get asked questions which they’ve encountered way too often such as what you’ve presented here and pushed to being “normal” because humans “need” animal products. Literal forcing “you can take the meat out from the soup” and not offering reasonable plant-based food happens too especially to those who aren’t in charge of the contents of their plate. I don’t expect you to directly relate or understand the frustration it creates, but perhaps you can relate via some other connection? Surely vegans can be pushing back and forceful too, and many are like this especially in online spaces. I wouldn’t say you’ve been forced here to become a vegan like vegans are pressured to become “normal”, but rather your justifications for consuming animal products are questioned. My dear IRL comrade isn’t a vegan and I’ve never pushed him to become one. However, I’ll never let him get away with a half-baked piss poor justification, and that is a comradely thing to do. This is how I see this situation too.
In my long gone days of being a newbie vegetarian, I remember ridiculing some vegan for stating that “milk is murder”. What a fool, right? Years later before I became a vegan I realised the fool had been me for not understanding dairy industry. There is no cows’ milk without pregnancy and the milk is produced for calves. This means that cows must be raped to produce milk and their calf taken away from them. Most calves are killed for meat shortly after their birth. So even if you don’t directly kill for milk, the calf here is a “by product” which cannot be kept around since it’d need that milk which is now taken from it for human consumption. This is how dairy industry operates and it surely requires killing calves and eventually their mothers when their bodies give up. Humans are not baby cows and milk must be processed before it’s safe for human consumption. The whole idea that milk somehow is necessary for humans is dairy industry propaganda. For example in Finland there literally are propaganda posters in schools, so from a very young age people are brainwashed to believe that milk is essential for humans. And surely one kind of milk is essential: human mother’s milk for human babies.
Then there is obviously the dairy farmer who isn’t paid enough by the industry and relies on state subsidies. Prices are artificially kept low and dairy products keep their dominant position. Dairy industry not only exploits the cows, but also the farmer.
I don’t think food chain could be changed by an insignificant population of vegans. We’ve gone from simple medieval farming of animals to industrialisation and commodification under capitalism. The very same capitalism that is fuelling climate change where animal agriculture plays a big role. What actually would be forcing the change is economy and climate change. This doesn’t mean everyone will be vegan, but perhaps vast majority will eventually be once animal agriculture is phased out.
One thing that bothers me with topics about veganism is how they mainly circle around food and moral questions related to it. It’d be refreshing to see discussions that go beyond this who eats what and is it right or wrong.
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How does this logic extrapolate to something the BDS campaign? Should we not pressure regularly people to boycott consumer products from companies that invest money in Israeli settler colonialism?
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The issue you might be missing is that without capitalist agriculture and fishing, all those staple foods you’re talking about will become much less available. You seem to be claiming that you need animal products at every meal. That is not an anti-capitalist position.
People will still be able to have some meat, fish, milk, etc, but not nearly to the extent that they do now. There will not be enough to consume it at every meal. That was the case before industrial capitalist farming, too. Maybe meat can be grown in labs but for now that’s science fiction.
Industrial farming is a huge contributor to climate change and the sheer amount of land needed to produce so much meat and dairy is unsustainable. There is no future for humans if they continue to rely on animal products to the extent they currently do.
Arguments about the necessity of regularly eating meat, fish, eggs, and milk due to humans being omnivores fall flat. There will be some availability but the end of capitalism ultimately means your diet must become substantially vegan.
If humans can’t survive that because they have traditionally eaten meat, then humans can’t survive. The planet will become uninhabitable because of it.
This does not mean that everyone must become vegan. It does mean that most people will have to substantially alter their relationship to animal products.
System change will mean that diet is no longer an individual choice in the way that it is today so you don’t have to worry about that.
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