There has not been peace in the Middle East since the Ottoman Empire and there probably never will be peace in the Middle East for at least several decades more.
There won’t be peace in the middle east until we’ve moved beyond petroleum.
When there’s no need for oil the global superpowers won’t need to play the regional powers against each other to take advantage of the chaos for profit anymore.Israel vs Arab states conflict won’t stop post oil economy.
No, but we’ll stop propping up both sides and it will be able to reach some sort of natural conclusion.
We’re not going to stop propping up Israel. It’s religious for American Christians, not economic.
This. There is a whole lot of dumb wrapped up in American policy related to Israel, and much of it is due to gomers that actually believe in their sick fantasies from their little book club.
Oh come on now it’s a great book. I keep it in the bathroom next to my playboys
I read the Bible for the articles
Now, now, we know you read the Song of Solomon.
I think this has always been a facile theory not backed up by any actual polling data.
Theory? Many of them will tell you their thoughts on why Israel has to be occupied by Jews. White evangelicals are all in for donvict like almost no other demo. A great deal of evangelicals believe that the character of Yeshua from their book club is going to come back in their lifetime.
Sure we will. Around the same time as winged monkeys fly out of my ass.
Trump will give Israel anything they want.
There isn’t going to be peace in my region until any of the regional powers once again has hegemony. Right now this region is a shatter belt, that is a region where regional and global powers treat as a battleground. That’s why a revolution against Syria’s government devolved into American, Russian, Turkish, Kurdish, Iranian, Israeli, Iraqi and Lebanese aircraft militias and armies directly involved, with even more indirectly involved.
Sadly the next few decades portend a collapse of the current authoritarian stability and even more Syria-like disasters.
Heck, there hasn’t been peace in the Middle East since the Bronze Age Collapse.
Just wanna point out that this is racist (???) propaganda meant to give the impression that the current state of the Middle East is anything but directly caused by Western interference. The Middle East was stable under Ottoman rule and Arab (gross oversimplification) rule before it.
Yeah, this whole “that place hasn’t had peace for thousands of years” is a Western talking point made to justify our occupation there.
The Ottoman and Arab empire (which we LOVE to pretend never existed) not only brought a lot of the innovations in science and technology that we still use to this day, but they also had a lot of social advancements that predated Western culture.
there was 800 years of peace under the ottoman empire that ended at about ww1. Zionists like to paper over that and pretend there has always been war there between jews and goy, but its not true at all.
While the zionists are there, there will be no peace.
People have been saying “As long as no [disliked social group] exists in the Middle East, there will be no peace” for the entirety of history.
Interesting theory. Tell us more about your obviously clear understanding of the 800 years of the jews living peacefully in that region during the ottoman empire.
Do you really think that if Israel did not exist that there’d be peace there?
Do you really think that if Israel did not exist that there’d be peace there?
I am 1000% confident that there would not be gencoide there if not for zionists. And theres plenty of proof of peace there in the past.
ask the Armenians about that.
just wait. anti-muslim fear-mongering will start soon, and then we’ll go to war. i give it less than a year
Well, no shit.
I’ve been phasing out US channels from my social media and I think it’s time to block Lemmy politics and other US-focused politics discussion from here as well. I don’t have much compassion for what Americans will endure the next however many years, but man, it does suck for everybody else.
all of my friends voted for harris and many of them campaigned for harris, including myself. no compassion is cool though- also cool to take the time to tell people you’re not only lacking in compassion, youre good with out-group homogenity in place of actual thinking. it’s also good you’re just burying your head in the sand, but take the time to ensure other people know that’s what you’re doing.
Screw that. I am forced to deal with US politics and culture in enough areas of my life to be shamed for refusing to care about their self-harming tendencies. I don’t have a need to care about what the US do to themselves in the same way I don’t have a need to care about what Argentina or Hungary or Russia do to themselves. At least Russians don’t have a real choice.
Admittedly, I did have the compulsion to write that down here at all, as opposed to those other examples. In my defense, that’s because a) I literally wrote that as I clicked the “block” button in this community, and b) it’s insanely hard to not pay attention to the US. It requires active effort. This community isn’t even called “US politics”, it’s just called “Politics”. The US dominating my media is the default stance of the world, I have to take aggressive action to make that not be the case.
i mean thats all fair. i do hope that if the politics in whatever country you live in take an authoritarian tilt or shift in a way thats openly hostile to you, you dont have to read someone writing that they have no compassion for you. i mean i will survive this, but its not very nice
Hah. Been there, done that. Partially thanks to the US, actually.
All countries have their history. It’s part of why I don’t feel I’m obligated to watch.
Why does this even need to be said? I hate this planet.
Ummm yeah, you’d be surprised at how many people think Trump is anti-war
I know. Can’t wait to see the daily goalpost movements from Trump voters doing everything they can to avoid admitting they fucked up. “Nah it’s ok guys, the camps aren’t concentration camps. Didn’t you hear Vance call them ‘forced timeshare rentals’? That’s all they are, so it’s ok.”
And then what % remains diehard after all of the awful shit he will do.
And, sadly, which group my parents fall under. If they can’t admit they were wrong, I’m not sure I can have them in my life. I cannot abide fascists, and they need to know that what they support is not only not ok, it’s actively damaging the future of their own children and grandchildren.
And “not ok” is putting it far too lightly. It’s morally abhorrent and they should be ashamed.
Tough decisions ahead…
“But mah 401k”
Well, when neither candidates have meaningful differences on the issue you care the most about, there’s no meaningful reason to vote - that’s what caused the major vote collapse at the election.
You murdered Palestinians. I hope you’re happy with your support of Trump’s genocide.
Your argument is insane. For example, I would never, ever, ever expect a Jewish person to vote for a politician who is exterminating Jewish children, even if I could make a rational argument that their opponent is worse for Jewish people.
You need to contend with fundamental human nature and you need to recognize that the Democratic Party for the past 13 months has acted beyond the moral pale. They have violated the red moral lines drawn by the world since 1945 and have done so with pride and sometimes caprice.
Being petulant towards people who could not bring themselves to vote for a genocidaire, and treating their very human revulsion and horror as petulance, marks you as an untrustworthy person who is unserious about human rights or liberal values.
So when faced with a trolley problem, always just let it do whatever
Likening to an abstract hypothetical moral problem is very appropriate to the way you people think. At the end of the day politics for you is a lever you pull every few years and the catharsis or disappointment involved.
By the way, kindly save your “I told you so” and “trolley problem” bullshit for after Trump has allowed Israel to slaughter a larger number of children than Biden did for the past 13 months.
kindly save your “I told you so” and “trolley problem” bullshit for after Trump has allowed Israel to slaughter a larger number of children than Biden did for the past 13 months.
Why wait? What happens then, you wave a magic wand and all of a sudden it’s rainbows and lollipops?
What happens then is that I will be responding to a moral argument based in facts, and not a fucking hypothetical that may as well be an excuse for genocide. If in 13 months the Trump administration has aided Israel in the slaughter of another 100,000 children, we can start talking about how voting Democrats as “damage mitigation” is a duty to humanity. Until then I will try my best to assume you’re making the argument in good faith and that you truly believe that ending genocide is a moral priority.
Lol Trump was extremely happy to take part in the SuperGenocide in Yemen. If you think Biden’s aid for the Gaza attack is bad, you ain’t seen nothing yet.
Id counter that and say if you didn’t vote you would be “unserious” about human rights
The only people who voted for the genocidaire I would consider to be engaging in serious harm mitigation are those who also use every other means afforded to them to stop the genocide. As for the people who have little to say about the fact that they have been presented two genocidaires as presidents - and even less to do - you’re even more grotesque when you invoke human rights.
You may be surprised to learn that Bibi wasn’t on any ballots anywhere in the US.
You did have the option of voting for Harris who wants to pressure Israel into a cease fire or trump who wants Israel to finish off the Palestinians faster.
So, like the other guy already said, if you didn’t vote for the one option who wanted to rein in the murder and also had a chance of getting more than 1% of the vote, you’re an “untrustworthy person who is unserious about human rights or liberal values.”
You may be surprised to learn that Bibi wasn’t on any ballots anywhere in the US.
Record breaking ovations and applause for him in Congress, so why should I care?
Harris who wants to pressure Israel into a cease fire
So you’re either a liar or a moron, huh.
Either vote murdered Palestinians. What are you talking about?
One candidate promised to murder more and that does make a difference.
Must feel great only killing a few kids, huh?
If you had the power to save only one life would you take it, or let them die because you don’t like your options?
You aren’t as morally pure as you think. We have to do what we can with what we have.
Now they’re all going to die.
All that is required for evil to flourish is that good men do nothing
You know what the lesser of two evils is?
Evil.
So let the greater of the two evils take control. Galaxy brain move.
So then enlighten us on what the right choice was in that context if you have answers to everything.
This isn’t a fucking movie where one heroic group of people overturn a full government.
The genocide is happening regardless of who got elected. But now, there is absolutely no chance that the genocide ends. At least with Harris, there was a sliver of hope.
Gaza will be glassed now a 100%, and become a new beach front for Israel.
Good luck Ukraine, I hope that Europe steps up, because the Russian asset now has the control of the 3 branches.
And good luck Americans, because for the vast majority of you, life is about to get a lot worst.
But hey, at least you get to keep your fucking smug attitude of living in unicorn land. I mean, the guy openly said he would be a dictator on day 1, but somehow, Harris had to be fucking impeccable, otherwise, schmucks like would come out of the woodworks to spout your fucking “both sides are the same” rhetoric.
I’d easily take less evil than fascist evil. For anyone to not be able to distinguish the two is such a failure.
Heroically ignorant and without nuance.
Hush, child
Let’s put this a different way. You were given the choice of saving only one of two children from a burning building, and actively chose to let both of them burn to death, because you couldn’t save both.
Real superhero Karen energy, right there.
That’s not how this works. That’s called “justification”. I voted for Kamala, BTW.
I really do believe now that the Democrats are encouraging the worst, dumbest, insane opponents hoping that they’ll find one that will finally push people to vote Democrat EVEN THOUGH they offer nothing.
Democrats have been neoliberals since the time of the first Clinton campaign. The milquetoast candidates are a direct result of that.
If you voted, then I’ll recind the analogy towards you. The 15 million democratic voters in 2020 that stayed home for whatever reason in 2024, still did exactly what I just portrayed. They had a choice to make, and they made the choice to do nothing, because things aren’t perfect.
And that’s only one big issue. Trump is planning to dismantle a lot of safeguards. Americans lives are about to get ultra shitty.
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Maybe what people who didn’t vote and Trump voters wanted was a merciful yet very quick complete annihilation to Palestine, before summer comes. Yeah, it must have been this.
This argument is no different than the gaslighting corporations do when they tell people that saving the environment is the job of consumers. The people killing Palestinians are the Israelis, with the full support and endorsement of both the democrats and republicans. No voter is responsible for that. Voting Kamala would have no difference on the outcome, she publicly announced her full support for Israel continuing their genocide on multiple occasions.
And don’t give me that “Trump will kill them faster” bullshit. That argument is the stupidest you lot have ever made, and that’s saying a lot. You should be dropped in Gaza to try arguing it to the starving kids missing arms and legs.
“Oh, sorry, but I voted for the person who would kill you slower, so there’s nothing I can do!”
Hey, I supported Harris - but you can’t ignore the fact that compared to Biden in 2020, Harris’s vote share practically collapsed - and her refusal to actively condemn Israel was a significant part of it.
Yup, she was an awful candidate that made several strategic mistakes - I don’t deny any of that.
Still, Palestine would be better off if she somehow managed to eek out a victory.
What a tool
Here’s a meaningful difference:
Harris supported a two-state solution with the eventual goal of an independent Palestine.
Trump will oversee the formal annexation of Gaza and the
West Bank“Judea and Samara”, marking the end of any hope for a future Palestinian state.Harris supported a two-state solution with the eventual goal of an independent Palestine.
Yes, she “supported” it. But did she take or promise to take real steps towards that goal? NO. And don’t tell me she promised to push for a ceasefire because she was lying.
Even if she took zero steps towards the goal, that’s infinitely preferable to Trump’s pushing for annexation of the occupied territories and dismantling the Palestinian Authority.
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be Israeli.
Even if she took zero steps towards the goal, that’s infinitely preferable to Trump’s pushing for annexation of the occupied territories and dismantling the Palestinian Authority.
Normally I’d agree with that, but in the context of the current Israeli genocide that’s straight up untrue, because doing nothing is allowing Israel to annex the occupied territories. That’s literally what they’re doing right now. You can’t say “but the status quo could get worse” when the status quo is the worst things can realistically get. What Trump supports is what Israel is doing and Biden is allowing and Harris promised she’d allow.
Also, Israel wouldn’t dismantle the PA until they’re finally done annexing the West Bank, because the PA are their convenient puppets who if anything hamper Palestinian resistance. Hell, if they dismantled the PA maybe we’d see real resistance from the West Bank again (hence why they won’t do that until they’re near the end of their colonial project).
Tankies saved Palestine 🤡
As long as the United States exists and the world still uses petroleum, there will never be peace in the Middle East. The genocide is Gaza is nothing more than a business decision by democrats and republicans, to keep the region destabilized so that it can’t resist Western imperialism.
Peace is bad for business
This must be where the “Genocide Joe!” tankies are having some pikachu face.
Why? Don’t think people who’d be considered tankies and recognized Biden as being being genocidal generally thought trump was better. I mean some Americans probably because Americans are politically illiterate and trump sometimes says he’ll do peace so doubtlessly some believed him. But I don’t think people saying genocide joe are surprised
“You could have had the friendly genocide, but noooo”
I feel like the middle east is sort of just like, haunted, doomed to eternal conflict by malevolent specters.
(Yes, I know those specters are the military industrial complex, colonialism, ancient civilizations, authoritarian rule, oil and natural gas, sectarian divisions, Israel, religious extremeists oh god maybe it is haunted)
There will, however, be much more genocide.
I think some non-voters knew that he would burn our system to the ground, and thats what they voted for.
There hasn’t been peace in the middle east in what 1-2 thousand years? I highly doubt a president was ever changing that unless they nuke the whole thing.
There hasn’t been peace in the middle east in what 1-2 thousand years?
Uh… No. For about 60 or 70 years. Maybe 80 tops. The Ottoman empire, the Arab* empires after it and the colonial/post colonial states after it were decently stable. It was neo-imperialist Western interference that fucked everything up.
*gross oversimplification
I mean, the Middle East is almost as bad as Europe for warmongering.
warmongering
The only current war in Europe is an european country not wanting to be invaded and destroyed by Russia
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