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It’s time for the biennial teeing of the football.
Inb4 some liberals start yapping “that you better try and kick the football charlie otherwise the Republicans will win”
Real question: what would you prefer? Its pretty clear we arent gonna riot. Its also pretty clear if people keep discouraging voting, we’re gonna have a republican majority again. Whats the point in voting for someone who 80% of the party isnt going to vote for, while 100% of conservatives vote for the guy their overlord demands.
Surely there is something in between rioting and a farce of an electoral process where you pick which team colour does imperialism for you.
I legit do not understand what that would be. If we decide to vote for a third party as an internet collective, we split the vote between internet people and normies. Mamdani won because he made national news. I have 0 DSA candidates on my ballot. What would you like me to do, if not just vote blue and pray for a better candidate
I love how the only political action you can conceive of is voting for pre approved candidates handed down to you. Joining a party that actually aligns with your goals, never. Engaging in political agitation (from something as simple as handing out fliers to organising rallies/events), impossible. No the only way to engage with politics is to tick off blue or red genocide before ignoring it for another 4 years.
You can vote for whoever you want comrade but the democrats are not going to get rid of ICE.
Eta a sincere answer because I’m turbo autistic today I guess: google whatever part of america you want to fix and read about what people are doing to make it better and join them. You might have figured out ICE sucks recently but people have opposed them since the beginning.
Here, for example, is some current resistance in Minnesota. It could be applied elsewhere. https://workersvoiceus.org/2026/10/11/if-they-can-criminalize-the-minnesota-15-they-can-criminalize-all-of-us/?amp=1
I dream about a world where children don’t starve and people don’t sleep under bridges while the wealthy molest children in empty high-rises. I dream about a world where people, no matter their skin color or geographic location, do not have to fear a clear sky, where everyone is free to pursue a life of joy and everyone is ensured a respectable life.
Sadly I understand that the rich child molesters and their bootlickers like you will not let such a world come to be peacefully, thus I accept the knowledge that violence is necessary, even though it is not beautiful. Read Blackshirts & Reds.Pardon me? I don’t understand how I’ve given the impression I think there is anything positive about the USA.
I’d like for you to not vote for genociders and instead make actual demands of your political representatives
if not just vote blue and pray for a better candidate
The dem leaders cannot and will not win without addressing voters needs. They need to own that idea as a group. Every time they are anywhere they need to be yelled at until they get in line. Right now Trump is trying to make a witch hunt case against Illhan Omar for instance and have her deported. She is a US citizen. Where TF are the Dems in defending her? If they dont defend her because she is of somali descent, then its time for scorched earth on the DNC. I’m tired of traitorous behavior from the DNC and I’m not going to just vote for them and hope.
Effing Gavin Newsom is trying to not only kill the billionaire tax measure in California but also ban any future wealth taxes. And you suggest we go along and hope they give us something better in the future? why would they ever do that?
I legit do not understand…
Peaceful national shutdown, the one thing very few of them talk about.
They either like the excuses or the dreaming about rioting, but anything useful that requires action is anathema.
It’s literally the only thing that isn’t violent and would get their Houses moving and it’d take about two weeks which isn’t even enough time to evict someone let alone starve (which they removed about anyway) but there’s no willingness to make the effort or go through the hardship.
Because it would have violence inflicted on it well before that two weeks. I agree it’s a great opening move, but you have to be ready to fight to protect the general strike, both against opportunists who’ll scab for the ruling class and against the goons they’ll throw at you to break the strike.
Because it would…
Again, this comes across as a preempted excuse, I’m sorry. That’s not necessarily the case and then you do have to have the forces fully against the public.
This is the problem…nothing can apparently be done, because there’s always reasons not to, never reasons to.
The truth is, the country’s people aren’t willing to go through hardship, it’s that simple. They are happy for others to, applaud people like the French but won’t do it themselves and when that’s pointed out, we don’t understand the complexities or some other shit.
Yes, you might have to fight the general strike in some areas. Yes it’ll take hardship. It’d also take about two weeks at most. Hardly enough time to be evicted or starve, or do without healthcare which apparently is an existing issue anyway.
Nobody else is bailing them out, that’s for certain.
We’re also getting tired of their politics being forced on us on top of it. We didn’t vote for fucking CPACS and we don’t want to be inundated with their fucking military.
Peaceful national shutdown, but there’s excuses why that can’t happen as well.
It’d take two weeks, if around 60% in the urban areas did it. The Houses would run to impeach.
At this point it sure doesn’t seem like there is.
That’s by design. Stop accepting the options that are handed to you, and pick the other options that those in power hide behind the curtain.
Like a clockwork lol.
I’d prefer if you didn’t try to get people to vote for genociders
I rather see more dead politicians. When politicians fear the people they work for the people!
I’d like the DNC to acknowledge your realization and act on it, as if they had an election to win instead of just checks to cash. Too much to ask?
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The trick is to kick where the football is going to be rather than where it is.
Sure Charlie, this time you’ll get it.
You could also just kick Lucy. Wouldn’t get the ball going, but it would probably be cathartic.
Might make her stop moving the ball
Did they really denounce it? They just were upset ice isn’t as well trained as the police… Police that are knownfor being just as terrible
yeah but they held up finding for like 2 months because those damn republicans wouldn’t allow for that training!
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There’s no gaslighting here liberal. Democrats help build the exact same institutions of repression as the republicans, and it was obvious to anybody with even a minimally functioning brain that these would be turned on the public sooner or later.
Did you vote in your Democratic primary for a progressive candidate?
I’m fortunate enough not to live under the burger reich regime.
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Yup, there are only two countries in this world, and everything that the dumb fucks living in the burger reich do to themselves is Russia’s fault.
“Everyone who disagrees with me is a foreigner, and thus I don’t have to take anything they say seriously” and other insane conspiracies for the right-wing mind.
Anyone who doesn’t want to fund genocide is russian.
Anyone who lives in the USA and wants their government to improve somewhat is russian.
Anyone outside of the USA who doesn’t want america to harm the people and other beings of the world is russian.
I’d love to see the pitch meeting. Did they flip a coin in 1991 to pick Russia vs Communism as the threat?
There’s a reason we call them Blue MAGA
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I’m not right wing in the least
Doubtful
I just think convincing left leaning Americans that Democrats are as bad as Republicans is a tankie psyop to split the leftist vote.
Faux leftist not knowing what actually constitutes the minimum requirement of being a leftist, classic.
Are you sure you’re not American, with this American tier understanding of the left right divide you could have fooled many people.
Arguing for genocide makes you right wing. Arguing for the right wing party that is the democrats makes you right wing. Arguing that because someone disagrees with you they must be a foreigner and thus should be disregarded is a weird racist mentality and racism and xenophobia is right wing.
What you identify yourself as does not matter, what matters is what you do, what you say, what you support and last and certainly least, what you believe.Finally normal people just block an instance, it is very weird to feel the need to proudly declare the creation of your personalised echo chamber.
totally didn’t know I was on lemmy.ml teehee!
No one believes this.
I’m not right wing in the least
Yes, you are, as evidenced by your belief that those who dissent are evil foreigners
Did you vote for a genocider?
Its so funny to me that they can just decide not to have a primary, lmao. Or decide to nominate someone who didn’t win the primary.
Good luck with that, lol.
For anyone who doesn’t know this, the current ex-CIA Democratic governor of Virginia did not go through a primary. Was just declared the candidate by party fiat.
Of course it has been weaponized, that’s the whole point of ICE, why else did Obama massively extend family detention leading to thousands of incarcerated children and an expansion of detention camps? It’s a weapon against people that don’t have documentation
They were a gestapo long before Trump but they didn’t bother the white libs so it was OK.
Hypocrite libs don’t care about brown peopleIt does seem like we’ve completed dropped non americans-- they dont count as humans with rights (this is Dems and repubs, not just repubs). We’re in the process of dropping gay and trans now, and indians are in the republicans crosshairs, so they’re up. I do wonder if brown, black, and latino are next, then asians, then women and children. This is what conservative-lite is about. Same results as conservatism only slower and with some sweet talking and DNC dems shushing us while it happens.
brown, black, and latino were already routinely murdered by the ‘normal’ police.
The white libs don’t care about those either, regardless of their US citizenship
What are you talking about? The first term had people crying about kids in cages and the abhorrent conditions in the concentration camps at the border and the insane practice of separating parents from their children.
People didn’t mention that Obama was the one to make those camps, but before we get into that we gotta adress the basic reality that people were freaking out about how Trump was using ICE back then too. Fucked to talk about gaslighting while you’re denying basic reality lmaoThis is literally Russian talking points
Acknowledging the reality that ICE was a massive part of the outcry against trump in his first term is “russian talking points”? Jesus christ Russiagate has you guys whipped into a xenophobic frenzy. Goebbels would be bored with how simple you would be to corral. If Putin said the sky is blue, would you suddenly insist it is black?
Anyway:
- Ad hominem. You are not adressing the argument, but instead the character of it. Where the argument comes from does not make it any less cogent.
- “Everyone who disagrees with me is an insidious foreigner” and other insane conspiracies for the right wing mind.
- No it isn’t. Source your claim.
I’m a liberal
You’re a xenophobic conspiracist. What you define yourself as does not matter, what matters is what you believe, what you say and what you do. And what you do is support genociders, what you say is that critique of democrats is some nefarious foreign plot and what you believe is that basic facts can be disregarded if they are russian. This makes you a right wing conspiracist.
Also I edited the comment, look at it again.How am I xenophobic?
I spelled that out pretty clearly. If youre going to do this lazy obtuse thing then you have to at least do it about something that has not been spelled out explicitly.
So what you’re saying is that Russia tells the truth.
Russia is imperialist at best.
What does that have to do with the previous statement?
Irrelevant. You’re describing objective historical facts as “Russian talking points.”
Zeroth of all, what’s worse than being imperialist?
First of all, even if it were imperialist, how is that relevant in the slightest?
Second of all, previously:
Russia, if given its druthers, would be imperialist, but since it presently doesn’t, it presently isn’t. Putin tried to join NATO once, to join the imperialist club, but that was rejected, because the US wanted Russia Balkanized & plundered instead. Russia has figured out it’s better off allying with Global South countries than attempting imperialist adventures upon them. And this war has accelerated that allyship.
Lmao nato exists specifically because of Russia post WW2.
Partially correct. The territory making up the modern Russian Republic was also part of the Soviet Union, which is what NATO was created to destroy.
NATO is an anti-communist alliance created and staffed by the Nazis after world war 2. This is a bad thing. West Germany managed to have more Nazis in government after the war, in large part due to NATO.edit: copypasted from another comment where I stole it from a better user than me
Let’s see: Nazis in Germany post-war were hired and brought directly back into:- Official posts within the federal government and its ministerial cabinets
- into the upper judiciary and magistrates
- into local governance
- elevated and hired into immense wealth in industry and finance, or just kept where they already were in industry and finance
- hired into forming the Nazi core of the West German intelligence and secret police agencies (which would become today’s German agencies) under the protective auspices of the OSS/CIA; who made extensive use of their networks of executioners and collaborators to prop up US-backed dictatorships and cartels and use as anti-communist stay-behind guerilla terrorists by the CIA and NATO (and brought into the CIA and FBI themselves, and into MI6 and Mossad)
- into German academia and universities as faculty and professors,
- to write western history books at the behest and with support of the US Army and OSS/CIA to sanitize their own crimes
- all those hired into NATO and into the EU
- into positions of power in West Germany (and all the NATO countries, helping in and helped by Gladio violently purging the communists) in such saturation and such impunity that it caused the formation of left wing militant groups that would assassinate and kidnap them.
but other than all of that though!
(And that’s not even mentioning the Nazis and collaborators which made up the origins of Radio Free Europe/Liberty, the “Victims of Communism Foundation” which grew out of the fascist-filled anti-Soviet “Captive Nations Lobby” headed by OUN-B Nazis from Ukraine, and all the Operation Aerodynamic, Operation Paperclip, Operation Sunrise, Operation Beladonna, Operation Lynx, etc etc.)
but there wasn’t a wide anti-ICE sentiment in 2017-2020
Sincere question because I’ve seen this sentiment on a few different topics recently: is the expectation for US politicians to follow popular sentiment? I understand the concept of representing your constituents but I have never taken that to mean making decisions based on the opinions of non experts.
Maybe I’m misunderstanding and what comments like this mean is that these things were not on the minds of the voters so politicians were not campaigning on it.
Does anybody know the names of the many many deaths under the drone king Obama or whoever?
No because they were Mexicans, Philippino or whatever.
Of course when they show up in white areas and even start killing white people the libs care, it’s big news and the victims get a name. Poor Renee and Alex!
These are your voters and what that comment means.
A bunch of hypocritesWhat I am having trouble reconciling is how people can have this belief (that individual offices should be filled by people who are committed to enacting the will of their constituents) with the vote-blue-no-matter-who approach.
If there is no nationwide platform for the parties that all candidates are expected to uphold, and the expectation is that the people in office are supposed to carry out the will of their constituents, voting along party lines seems entirely meaningless.
(I am not seeking to understand why this arrangement makes sense overall. I know it doesn’t and that the US electoral system even as designed originally was meant to make it impossible to represent local desires in favor of prioritizing preservation of the union. Nothing has changed. My question was meant to understand the perspective of the people who believe these two things can be true at the same time.)
You are correct, the idea that one should make no demands of the person representing oneself does make it so that person has no incentive to represent you, since they will be assured a more stable base of power if they appeal to other voters that do not support them unconditionally.
I think the reason people do the “blue no matter who” mindkilling cliché is twofold: They’ve fallen for the “just this once”/“most important election of all time” shtick that has been dragged out for at least four decades.
Secondly they believe in the personal project of the politician - ie. They think that the base desires of the politician is aligned with their own. This is delusional, unless one loves genocide, fascism and a merciless police state.
Honestly. Nobody talked about ICE before 2024. Now it’s a household name.
I’m not american and don’t live in the states but even I remember this: https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/blog/black-lives-matter-ice/
According to a leaked internal government document, the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) deployed more than 700 personnel in the Washington, D.C. area alone. Most of the officers were from U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP) and Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). They provided “support” to other federal law enforcement bodies responding to protests in the city and near the White House.
See also, from 2018: https://www.migrationpolicy.org/journal/policy-beat/once-relatively-obscure-ice-becomes-lightning-rod-immigration-debate
While some of the sharpest liberal voices calling for ICE’s abolition have calmed, in part amid a recognition by leading Democratic strategists that the campaign could backfire, the agency has clearly been thrust into the center of a polarized national narrative in an unprecedented way. Attacked in some circles, the agency is being lionized elsewhere. Vice President Mike Pence recently told ICE agents they were “American heroes.” And eager to capitalize on a wedge issue important to its base, the White House on August 20 held a “Salute to the Heroes” of ICE and U.S. Customs and Border Protection, which like ICE is a DHS agency.
…
Thus, the issue turned into a litmus test for many Democratic candidates. Possible presidential contenders took up the cry next: first, Senators Kirsten Gillibrand (NY) and Elizabeth Warren (MA), and eventually Bernie Sanders (VT), who initially refused to call for ICE’s dissolution. Gillibrand also seemed to conflate ICE’s responsibilities with those of CBP, saying, “When we flip the House and flip the Senate, I think the first thing we should do is deal with the children who are being separated from their families at the border. I think we should get rid of ICE.”
And the pushback on Obama for his enforcement: https://www.aclu.org/news/immigrants-rights/border-patrol-was-monstrous-under-obama-imagine
I’m also ancient and remember when ICE was created, and how scary the homeland security act was (and is) and the protests against it. It’s absolutely wild how normalized all that stuff is now.
You already memory holed Trump’s first term?
Liberals seriously can’t help but reveal their lack of object permanence
Wow just proving you’re a white liberal without any immigrant friends.
They’ve been a fucking menace since day one, but I guess since they only ever bothered brown people before it didn’t matter to you.
Lmao are you 12?? There were straight up riots because of ICE under Trump 1
Admitting to being uninformed isn’t a good look, lol.
Haha what the fuck? Really showing that you just started paying attention very recently
I voted for Obama because Bush signed off on the Patriot Act. Obama expanded it. How am I supposed to think after that? That’s why there’s all these chilly situations happening.
funny thing is that he also got Nobel Peace Prize for literally nothing. Because he’s a jam-up dude basically.
he also got Nobel Peace Prize for literally nothing
I believe this is the main reason Trump believes he deserves one too.
his best chance was in 2017 right after he got elected. that’s how Obama pulled it off. No way Nobel committee would’ve done that by the end of his second term.
They frequently give them to gusanos who advocate for bombing their own countries, and they gave one to Kissinger, so I don’t think that matters much to them.
The thoughts of the only Chinese national to win a nobel peace prize. It’s a truly vile institution that spends the majority of its time laundering the horrific histories of some of histories most vile people and institutions.
Interviewer: “Then what conditions would allow a true historic transformation in China?”
Liu Xiaobo: “Three hundred years of colonization. Hong Kong took a hundred years of colonizing to get where it is today, so the mainland, huge as it is, would need three hundred to reach Hong Kong’s level. I don’t even know if three hundred would be enough."
That’s appalling, and very relevant.
weren’t there a guy who got the prize and then did 180 and committed a bunch of war crimes?
Yeah, Obama.
nah, there is another one - Abiy Ahmed.
I was going to reply to your prior comment with, “Wrong, he got elected!”
the whole endless needless attempts to “cut a deal” to broker some kind of peace all over the place seem like some very bad political satire but Kissinger got a prize for way less if you think about it (and it messed up the region for decades onwards) - so while demented there is a bit of logic going on.
Fair. He could broker a lot of peace by refusing to meddle but that ego…
the size of Unicron at least
He seemed to have mostly gotten it because he was the first black president of the US. Though, they might have thought it would spur him to get out of the wars in the middle east (it didn’t).
he got that? never know that before
There was a reason even if you don’t agree with it. It may also partially explain Trump’s drive to do the opposite since Obama is a permanent fixture in Trump’s dementia-stricken brain. https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/2009/obama/facts/
still a poor choice in hindsight.
There is always a reason…
Oh, I know this one! Don’t vote next time so Republicans win! Step 2: ???
Seriously though, I understand the frustration. Obama absolutely deserves criticism for continuing and expanding parts of the post-9/11 surveillance state. But the US was fundamentally changed by 9/11, and reversing that political momentum was always going to be difficult. That doesn’t excuse his decisions, but it does help explain the political environment in which they were made.
The same nuance applies to ICE. Democrats have funded immigration enforcement for decades, and their record deserves scrutiny, particularly under Obama. But funding an existing federal agency isn’t the same as endorsing Trump’s use of that agency. Enforcement priorities, oversight, detention policies, and the scale and purpose of operations matter. Treating all ICE funding as equivalent ignores some pretty significant differences between administrations.
And let’s not forget the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare wasn’t universal healthcare, and it certainly wasn’t the single-payer system many progressives wanted, but it wasn’t nothing. It expanded coverage to millions of Americans, protected people with preexisting conditions, and fundamentally changed what Americans could expect from their healthcare system. Those were substantial gains, even if the legislation was compromised from the start. That’s exactly what I mean about political momentum: imperfect progress can establish protections and expectations that future reforms can build upon.
My larger concern is that abandoning Democrats over their failures doesn’t move the country left. If anything, it risks pushing the Overton window even further right. The American electorate hasn’t consistently supported the kind of progressive policies many of us would like to see, and there’s been an enormous, well-funded political and media effort over the past decade to discredit those policies, particularly around civil rights, immigration, and anything labeled “woke.”
I’m 43 now, and one thing I’ve come to appreciate is how much political momentum matters. Progress isn’t linear, and meaningful social change often takes decades to establish. It’s much easier to capitalize on fear, resentment, and existing prejudices than to build lasting public support for expanding rights and changing institutions.
None of that means Democrats should get a free pass. Quite the opposite. They need to be challenged, especially when they compromise on fundamental rights. But there’s a difference between holding a party accountable and allowing its opposition to consolidate even more power.
The Democratic Party is divided, and I don’t know who is going to provide the leadership it needs. But I don’t see the Republican Party advancing civil liberties, economic equality, or a more humane immigration system. And I certainly don’t see how handing Republicans more power helps us get there.
Real change takes time, organization, and political momentum. We have to build on what we have while pushing for something better. Abandoning the imperfect opposition to an increasingly authoritarian right doesn’t strike me as much of a strategy.
imperfect opposition
Liberals do not consider Palestinians fully human.
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Democrats are conservative.
Funny to talk about groupthink when you’re the one freaking out about people daring to critique your blue team fascists.
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The Russians are applauding your efforts.
Who cares! Seriously, all you shitlibs care about is your made up holy war against those damn ruskies.
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This just in: Wiping your ass and washing your hands is russian propaganda.
and wtf do conservatives think of Palestinians? Bacteria? This thread is full of immature low iq group thinking edgelords.
Emphasis mine, fucking crazy that you embrace the accusation. And leave it to a nazi to make everything about iq
This should have like a billion likes but we worship idols and we like just looking good. Remember kiddos it is all about managing perception. Nom nom nom treats on duhhhhh visa cause I guess I was born yeasturd day. Loops poops and dupes. Rinse and repeat as the world burns. Tricks are for kids ya’ll.
If anything, Democrats present themselves as more competent at deporting and killing people in other countries
Worth noting centrist democrats are simply Republicans-light. They cave to conservatives constantly to get concessions republicans immediately undo as soon as they take congress. Democracy has not fared well since democrats caved to Reagan. Schumer’s legacy sucks.
To the RNC, The Democratic party is something between colleagues in empire, controlled opposition and bratty subs
Of all the years to forget the space between
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Frankly, it’s incredible that’s what you arrived at looking at the post.
Considering that there’s basically just Dems and Reps on the ballots *checks notes* literally right NOW, and your post is definitely anti Democrat, I can only infer you want Republikkkans to be voted for an win.
There’s actually more, you should probably check your notes better.
By the way the checks notes bit is so played out, its come to the point even republicans do it. If you want to be effective with your snark then you gotta move beyond what wasn’t even novel in 2016.
K
Shit yourself to death.
K
Considering that there’s basically just Dems and Reps on the ballots…
Thats not true at all. I had a few options that weren’t Dems or Reps. In many races, you can also write in people.
…your post is definitely anti Democrat…
Wait, so you are upset that they are against ICE, kidnapping, torture, and murder…? I’m not sure you realize what that says about you.
…I can only infer you want Republikkkans to be voted for an win.
You can inferr a lot from what they said, but you are the one who appears to be pushing people into supporting Republican policies, not the OP.
Nah fam. A post specifically decrying Dems without also specifically decrying Republikkkans is obviously anti Dem, and pro Republikkkans.
I want to shoot and kill every I.C.E. member I see, but I know that won’t work, and I didn’t have the means yet.
So I’m gonna ensure that I never vote for the party that perpetually has 200+ votes every single time to ensure or raise I.C.E. funding. If there’s a third party and they’re the opponent, I’ll vote em in (like I did with Nithya Raman).
The obvious pro-I.C.E. party is the Republikkkans. I will always vote against them. And always have.
Also, I understand mitigation, and I’m not a single issue voter, unlike the myriad Republikkkans in this comment section.
A post specifically decrying Dems without also specifically decrying Republikkkans is obviously anti Dem, and pro Republikkkans.
That’s not obvious at all. In fact, that’s a blatently false statement. It’s an anti-Dem post, but I see no mention of support for Republicans, except from people like you, supporting their policies.
I want to shoot and kill every I.C.E. member I see, but I know that won’t work, and I didn’t have the means yet.
Yet you keep defending and supporting the people who fund them. Something about that tells me your anti-ICE rhetoric is unserious.
So I’m gonna ensure that I never vote for the party that perpetually has 200+ votes every single time to ensure or raise I.C.E. funding.
But you will vote for “the other” party that also votes to ensure and raise ICE funding.
The obvious pro-I.C.E. party is the Republikkkans. I will always vote against them. And always have.
Well, the Republicans are one of the obviously pro-ICE parties. And you may vote against them, but you sure are keen on voting for their policies, as long as the Blue Team is doing it.
Also, I understand mitigation, and I’m not a single issue voter, unlike the myriad Republikkkans in this comment section.
I’ve yet to see any Republican, or single-issue voter in these comments. Maybe you can point them out to me? But something tells me that you wont.
People here don’t need to be told republicans suck, they are aware already. On the other hand the site is full of brainiacs like you who think dems are saints.
removed you would phone bank for John McCain if he were alive today
You’ve voted for a Reagan clone in every election since you joined the age of majority
Incorrect. But thanks for playing!
Twerp behavior
And I’m not incorrect. Unless you’re lying out your ass and stayed home every election since 1980, you voted for a Reagan clone.
K
So you haven’t voted for democrats in the last two decades?
I didn’t vote for Republikkkans, did you?
Answer the question
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Why are you so afraid of answering the question?
Go back to reddit
What the post is clearly inferring, is that Demcratic voters don’t care about the attrocities that ICE is comitting, they only care that the Blue Team is the one doing it.
If you are against the Republicans because of ICE, you should be against the Democrats because of ICE.
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Because the Republicans don’t pretend to be anti-ICE. The Democrats do. Of course OP focuses on the party that fights leftists. Unlike you, they don’t want ICE to continue on.
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Haha, every single sentence in that statement is factually true. But pretending that factually true data is incorrect is exactly what I expect from Libs that support racists, rapits, murderers and thieves.
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By this logic, is dying the same as voting Republican?
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Okay, so, committing suicide is the same as voting Republican.
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At this point, liberals think anyone disagreeing with them is inherently bad faith
I’m pointing out the obvious logical conclusion of your argument, you just don’t want to engage with it because you are arguing in bad faith. In your mind, no one has a good reason to not vote for Democrats, therefore, they are Republicans.
When someone forces me to confront something extremely stupid I said outside of my own deliberate framing it’s called bad faith.
You’re only allowed to talk to me in the same voice as my inner monologue.
Basically, yes.
Then I think you should vote republican
Why would I do something stupid like that?
no, those who did not vote, did not vote. Nobody should be compelled to vote for genocide.
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Basically, yeah.
I blame the Patriot act
Let’s focus on what’s going on now, shall we? Whatever happened before was what happened before. What is happening now will continue to happen if you spin info this way. Has there been any other party involved in funding? Has any of funding been included with a multitude of other items in a bill? Let’s hear the whole story of every year - not just this cherry-picking intended to make the Democrats in Congress responsible for today’s storm trouper ICE tactics.
How is anyone supposed to make an informed decision without considering past events? Ignore cause and effect?
Whatever happened before was what happened before.
I means this is MAGA level critical thinking.
What happens now is a result of what came before. Ignoring history only makes you blind, it does not do you any good. This “lets focus on the now” line I see some of you oafs expouse only helps to shield fascists.
This “lets focus on the now” line I see some of you oafs expouse only helps to shield fascists.
It’s also what Democrats LOVE to do when finally elected.
Liberals just go through life like goldfish, just vibing in the moment.
Let’s focus on what’s going on now, shall we? Whatever happened before was what happened before. What is happening now will continue to happen if you spin info this way
You, 30 april 1945, after Donitz was appointed president
Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who
If the Democrats in Congress don’t want to be held responsible for today’s storm trouper ICE tactics, then maybe they shouldn’t keep increasing funding to ICE, and training them to act like Storm Troupers.
I like how providing evidence that the Democrats don’t even deny is “spinning info”
Feel Fine, Vote Stein
Id say Gloria la Riva, but anything beats genociders.
Democrats are controlled opposition. It’s all bullshit. Don’t vote, buy a gun and ammo and practice your aim peeps
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Your brain on Blue No Matter Who
incomprehensible gibberish
Uncultured swine
Bullshit. Do I need to spell out why?
Yes please
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/2025190
The One Big Beautiful Bill Act (the Bill that gave I.C.E. a huge budget increase), not a single Dem voted for it.
https://ballotpedia.org/One_Big_Beautiful_Bill_Act
Seems like a downward trend from the post 9/11 days.
So because of another bill the democrats didn’t vote for, this means they didn’t vote for a bill that they did vote for?
I see you fail to understand “downward trend”. That means there was a high, and over time, the amount has gone down.
“Up” or “high” can be like looking toward the sky. And “down” or “low” can be like looking toward the ground.
A “trend” is something that happens after a period of time.
So the number of people voting for I.C.E. asshole money has gone down over time. Which is a good thing.
Downward trend.
I see you fail to understand “the democrats voted to increase funding for ICE”, which they did. You seem very set on moving the goalposts instead of relating to the facts at hand. You said it was bullshit, what about the democrats not voting for another bill makes it bullshit that the democratic party voted to increase ICE funding?
7 Democrats
218 Republikkkanshttps://newrepublic.com/post/205604/seven-democrats-voted-keep-funding-ice
Tom Suozzi (New York)
Henry Cuellar (Texas)
Don Davis (North Carolina)
Laura Gillen (New York)
Jared Golden (Maine)
Vicente Gonzalez (Texas)
Marie Glusenkamp Perez (Washington){I live in California)
I know “downward trend” is hard to understand. But please make an effort. And stop voting for Republikkkans.
I know this is difficult for you to grasp, but please try to make a miniscule effort: You claimed the post was bullshit, yet you cant disprove it, so you keep trying to move the goalposts. The democrats ensured ICE funding increased each of the years given in the post, that is a fact. Your “proof” that that isn’t a fact is not proof of that, its proof that you think it is okay to fund ICE as long as there’s another party thats worse. Thats literal whataboutism and completely irrelevant to the statement YOU made and YOU have yet to provide proof for.
If you are so certain the statement in the post is bullshit, then why is it so hard for you to actually engage with it, instead of dancing around it? Go through each year given in the post, disprove that the democrats ensured ICE funding for each year given. It should be easy, since its bullshit according to you. Either that or fuck off with your weak rhetorical tricks.
Done, see my other comments
Thats not you spelling it out lmao. Write out your arguments or at the very least link to a specific comment you think spells it out.
It is spelling it out. But some folks say only thing changed is that I’ve become more informed about what ICE does
“I actually have all the arguments and proof against your position. Just go look for it through my comment history” is not spelling it out you dumbass
Lol. Have a nice day
Have the day you deserve
I made a comment where I linked to articles from the first trump term where democrats were calling for ICE to be defunded : https://crazypeople.online/comment/11610798
This got walked back as the 2020 election drew near. Which is why people are questioning the sincerity of this new opposition. Does this satisfy you that the mainstream opposition to ICE isn’t new during this term?.
Why?
When did ICE become yet another version of Gestapo?
I was going to write “instrument of opression”, but state is one by definition, so need to be more specific
The day it was found.
Doubtful. The day it was found it was already an instrument for oppression, but just a gang of armed dumbheads with state approval of whatever they feel like doing? I am still clinging to hopeful thought that it’s a “recent” development, not something that’s been happening for decades
Why didn’t I hear about them execution executing wanton violence before?
Because you didn’t care
Try harder. Didn’t hear != didn’t care
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The propaganda got completely wild, but the day to day operations didn’t change a whole lot, it’s just more public now
Focking hell if that’s true. So only thing that’s changed much is that I am now more informed about what they do? (Yes, it is so hard for me to believe that I need this re-stated a few times)
“Institutional violence only bad when my favorite color team hate it!”
Lol. Did you even read what I said?
The day it was founded. On what grounds do you argue that the xenophobic minority hunting group with dedicated private concentration camps isn’t a modern gestapo?
Somehow I doubt that. Ground: that’s only orange shitstain’s second term brought “we shoot you because we feel like it” news to me. But I live far from America, so could be wrong
It seems you’re asking in earnest, so here’s some different sources for you to read that might help expand your understanding of how historically terrible the US is.
Facilitating the global heroine drug trade - A thread
Massive drone assassination program
Chicago Police has had “black sites” for decades
Ferguson Riot leaders were assassinated and disappeared under Obama in a dem city with a dem governor [2]
American police used to (and still does) torture detainees [2]
Biden deported more than Trump 1
Biden expanded the concentration camps [2]
Biden was planning on doing mass deportations using ICE as well
Thank you, will read
You are wrong, yes
That’s horrible. Thank you
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I don’t follow this stance when looking at the image.
I believe the image is saying the democrats supported ICE until 2017 through 2020, when trump was in office. Come 2021 and the democrats are back in office, they continue to fund it. During the second trump administration, they are back to denouncing ICE.
I think funding is used here in the context of what the democrats were calling for during the first trump admin. For example in 2018: https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/394978-warren-its-time-to-replace-ice/
Focusing on a wider range of candidates: https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/article/some-democrats-with-eye-on-2020-abolish-ice/
However, by 2020 the views had shifted: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/immigration/abolish-ice/
And after the election abolishing ICE was no longer a priority.
Do you think what ICE is doing now is a fundamental shift from caused the initial outrage during the last admin, rather than just a jump in magnitude?
Even if I imagine myself as someone who thinks reform is possible, I can’t understand how the view isn’t that by maintaining the status quo the dems have exercised terrible negligence. If the behavior of the first admin was so abhorrent, wouldn’t it be critical to ensure a future government couldn’t as easily do the same or worse?
Do you think what ICE is doing now is a fundamental shift from caused the initial outrage during the last admin, rather than just a jump in magnitude?
Certainly ICE has shifted from its typical operation in previous administrations. The asylum policy was overhauled. Thousands more ICE agents were hired to conduct militarized raids with little to no oversight. The degree of evidence required for deportation has been lowered. Judicial review has been curtailed and ignored. These are significant changes.
But the point I make is that the image presents a false premise. Democrats and Republicans agree that illegal immigration should be prevented. ICE is the agency tasked with this by each administration and it makes sense that it would be funded.
Feel free to verify this against the Democratic party platform by year.
If the behavior of the first admin was so abhorrent, wouldn’t it be critical to ensure a future government couldn’t as easily do the same or worse?
It’s not so easy to prevent a future government from doing something. Even constitutional change, which is usually a very high bar, can be overruled by a judge or ignored if people allow it. Maybe the best protection is an informed, active public like in France? Not really sure – what do you think?
I think the false presence you are mentioning requires that readers agree that the dems were right to walk back criticism of ICE between 2018 and 2020, and that ICE as it exists from 2024-2026 deserves it this time. I’m going to assume the author does not agree with that viewpoint.
Feel free to verify this against the Democratic party platform by year.
It was my understanding that there is no overall platform, but each candidate has their own platform, i.e. let’s say there are 5 different dem candidates (not for the same office), they will each have their own platform which is generally expected to be in line with the leadership. Unlike in other systems, if a person wants to be associated with a party, they are expected to follow the party platform or they will be kicked out. (If they are elected they keep their position, but they are “independent”.)
Is that incorrect? If not, I’m not seeing the relevance of the presidential platform. I know Biden didn’t support defunding ICE.
It’s not so easy to prevent a future government from doing something. Even constitutional change, which is usually a very high bar, can be overruled by a judge or ignored if people allow it.
I don’t disagree.
Maybe the best protection is an informed, active public like in France? Not really sure – what do you think?
I’m not sure what the protection you are referring to is.
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