I mean, I agree with all of your criticisms of 9, I just don’t agree that they make it worse than 8.
I mean, hell, “Finn immediately wakes up, loses faith in the rebellion”? The slow-motion chase through space? “Union negotiations” ha ha so funny? Carrie Poppins surviving for no real reason except perhaps to ‘subvert expectations’? 3000 attempted coups of Poe and the uninspired leadership of Admiral Replacement? “I’m going to let you out of the brig, not because you’ve learned anything, but because committing mutiny is why I keep you around”? Hyperspace jumps can now be weaponized? Hoth 2 (this time it’s salt) after an emergency landing with one ship? Twelve people survive out of the entire fleet so let’s celebrate?
The ENTIRE Canto Blight nonsense, top to bottom? Especially the weird shoehorned animal rights bit? Benicio del Toro the arms dealer who exists for ten seconds (waste of a fantastic actor) and leaves on the stunning line “Maybe”? Grand Leader Whoever in a bathrobe talking about how much ‘spunk’ young Rey has and then dying in his first few minutes seen in person? Whatsherface falling in love with Finn over the space of a day or two and then managing to race her land speeder faster than Finn’s, so she can catch up to him as he’s going full throttle on a suicide mission and then save his life by… ramming him at full speed and wrecking both of their vehicles right on top of the enemy?
Luke casually throwing away the lightsaber like it was a piece of moldy bread? “The Jedi Scriptures”? Luke drinking blue milk fresh from the teat? Not even acknowledging (or barely acknowledging, I don’t remember) Chewie coming back to see him, one of his oldest friends? The Porgs? Fuck. “Reach out and feel the force”? Luke decides to murder his innocent nephew in the middle of the night despite being such an idealist that he thought Darth Vader could come back from his atrocities? Casually brushing off his shoulder after getting his force projection blasted by the not-AT-ATs?
I’m probably missing so goddamn much. I’m not revisiting it. I saw it once, and once was one time too many.
There are only two things that 8 gave us that were good - the force bond on screen (and even that was tormented by the sheer awkwardness of it, especially asking Ben Swolo to put on a towel) and the almost Nietzschean philosophy embraced by Kylo Ren as a more articulate envisioning of the Dark Side. I do wonder if that was connected to KOTOR 2 or just one of those parallel evolution things.
As said, I don’t think Last Jedi is a good film, so my defence is going to be pretty half arsed, but just a few points I’d like to challenge.
Finn joined the resistance because he witnessed an atrocity as a trooper and didn’t want to be a bad guy. He got disillusioned and questioned whether the resistance were actually good because they had to do things that also killed lots of people. He ultimately decides it’s justified. I’d argue that characters overcoming struggles and having a bit of depth is a good thing.
Carrie Poppins was a bad, bad, choice, agreed.
Poe leading a mutiny because he didn’t know what was going on, because he’d been demoted, because he didn’t follow orders, demonstrates that while he may be a great pilot, he’s far too impulsive and his own actions are what holds him back. This shows where his character can, and needs to, grow if he’s ever going to be at the top table.
Canto continues with the strong anti-imperialism of the original trilogy. The purpose of that entire piece is as a commentary on the military industrial complex, and how it has conflicted goals as it benefits more from continued war than peace.
“The animal rights bit” - dude, the culmination of RotJ was the Empire being beaten by teddy bears, this again is a constant theme throughout the OT, that exploitation occurs everywhere within an imperialist system.
it’s been 30 years since we last saw Luke, and even then his training was incomplete, because he’d run away impulsively to get back to Han and Leia. Luke is flawed - my biggest peeve with certain parts of the old EU was how some authors painted him as almost christ like and perfect, perfect is boring - and ultimately failed to rebuild the academy. He fucked up so badly that, yes, he misunderstood a vision, and thought Ben was going to go to the dark side. He then caused this, couldn’t forgive himself, and lived in self-imposed exile as penance. Of course he didn’t want the lightsabre that he’d already given up. Wouldn’t it be even weirder for him to be all “oh, thank you so much for giving me back the sabre I purposefully discarded after I tried to murder my nephew and turned him away from the light, it would look great on my wall!”
don’t kink shame blue titty drinking! 😂
Again, was it a great film? No, far from it. But at least it tried to give depth to characters, had them tackle challenges, and overcome them and/or grow through failure.
With Palpatine coming back, somehow, in 9, it completely destroys Anakin’s redemption, because it turns out that he didn’t actually kill Palpatine after all, so no final great act, no meaningful sacrifice, Vader dies for nothing.
For all its faults, and there are many, nothing Last Jedi did destroyed the main character of the fanchise’s arc quite like that.
Of course he didn’t want the lightsabre that he’d already given up. Wouldn’t it be even weirder for him to be all “oh, thank you so much for giving me back the sabre I purposefully discarded after I tried to murder my nephew and turned him away from the light, it would look great on my wall!”
That was actually Anakin’s lightsaber, the one given to him by Ben that he lost in the duel on Bespin, that most people presumed was lost forever after having been shunted out of a trash chute into the atmosphere of a gas giant. He didn’t make a conscious decision to give that one up, though I understand his reluctance to accept any lightsaber in the first place what with everything that happened that we learn about throughout the movie, but the casual toss-over-the-shoulder for laughs was pretty inappropriate considering the tone of the same scene at the end of 7, explicitly framed in such a way implying that Luke had an emotional reaction to seeing either Rey or the Lightsaber again.
Fair point, but let’s not pretend that that scene in 7 was anything more than JJ’s usual mystery box, set up with no plan for execution, writing.
How on earth Disney allowed a trilogy of films in a franchise as massive as star wars to not even have a speculative outline for an overall arc blows my mind.
Oh, for sure, I’m pinning the blame on JJ for the bad setup and RJ for running with it without a plan. Disney Lucasfilm should have had a tighter grip on the project from the very start.
I mean, I agree with all of your criticisms of 9, I just don’t agree that they make it worse than 8.
I mean, hell, “Finn immediately wakes up, loses faith in the rebellion”? The slow-motion chase through space? “Union negotiations” ha ha so funny? Carrie Poppins surviving for no real reason except perhaps to ‘subvert expectations’? 3000 attempted coups of Poe and the uninspired leadership of Admiral Replacement? “I’m going to let you out of the brig, not because you’ve learned anything, but because committing mutiny is why I keep you around”? Hyperspace jumps can now be weaponized? Hoth 2 (this time it’s salt) after an emergency landing with one ship? Twelve people survive out of the entire fleet so let’s celebrate?
The ENTIRE Canto Blight nonsense, top to bottom? Especially the weird shoehorned animal rights bit? Benicio del Toro the arms dealer who exists for ten seconds (waste of a fantastic actor) and leaves on the stunning line “Maybe”? Grand Leader Whoever in a bathrobe talking about how much ‘spunk’ young Rey has and then dying in his first few minutes seen in person? Whatsherface falling in love with Finn over the space of a day or two and then managing to race her land speeder faster than Finn’s, so she can catch up to him as he’s going full throttle on a suicide mission and then save his life by… ramming him at full speed and wrecking both of their vehicles right on top of the enemy?
Luke casually throwing away the lightsaber like it was a piece of moldy bread? “The Jedi Scriptures”? Luke drinking blue milk fresh from the teat? Not even acknowledging (or barely acknowledging, I don’t remember) Chewie coming back to see him, one of his oldest friends? The Porgs? Fuck. “Reach out and feel the force”? Luke decides to murder his innocent nephew in the middle of the night despite being such an idealist that he thought Darth Vader could come back from his atrocities? Casually brushing off his shoulder after getting his force projection blasted by the not-AT-ATs?
I’m probably missing so goddamn much. I’m not revisiting it. I saw it once, and once was one time too many.
There are only two things that 8 gave us that were good - the force bond on screen (and even that was tormented by the sheer awkwardness of it, especially asking Ben Swolo to put on a towel) and the almost Nietzschean philosophy embraced by Kylo Ren as a more articulate envisioning of the Dark Side. I do wonder if that was connected to KOTOR 2 or just one of those parallel evolution things.
As said, I don’t think Last Jedi is a good film, so my defence is going to be pretty half arsed, but just a few points I’d like to challenge.
Again, was it a great film? No, far from it. But at least it tried to give depth to characters, had them tackle challenges, and overcome them and/or grow through failure.
With Palpatine coming back, somehow, in 9, it completely destroys Anakin’s redemption, because it turns out that he didn’t actually kill Palpatine after all, so no final great act, no meaningful sacrifice, Vader dies for nothing.
For all its faults, and there are many, nothing Last Jedi did destroyed the main character of the fanchise’s arc quite like that.
That was actually Anakin’s lightsaber, the one given to him by Ben that he lost in the duel on Bespin, that most people presumed was lost forever after having been shunted out of a trash chute into the atmosphere of a gas giant. He didn’t make a conscious decision to give that one up, though I understand his reluctance to accept any lightsaber in the first place what with everything that happened that we learn about throughout the movie, but the casual toss-over-the-shoulder for laughs was pretty inappropriate considering the tone of the same scene at the end of 7, explicitly framed in such a way implying that Luke had an emotional reaction to seeing either Rey or the Lightsaber again.
Fair point, but let’s not pretend that that scene in 7 was anything more than JJ’s usual mystery box, set up with no plan for execution, writing.
How on earth Disney allowed a trilogy of films in a franchise as massive as star wars to not even have a speculative outline for an overall arc blows my mind.
Oh, for sure, I’m pinning the blame on JJ for the bad setup and RJ for running with it without a plan. Disney Lucasfilm should have had a tighter grip on the project from the very start.