Pretty much everything you listed is a convenience that can fairly easily be cut out of your life. Except for Nestlé, because keeping tracking of what brands are under any given food companies umbrella is not an easy task and the lack of competition means that oftentimes there are simply no good alternatives.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but that doesn’t mean that I’m under any obligation to respect somebody who continues to give money to an author who has openly said that they consider buying their merchandise as explicit support of their politics and donates a portion of their proceeds to extremist political groups with ties to far-right Christian groups in the US. The same as I’m not obligated to respect Republicans who say that they’re not racist, homophobic, etc, but still continue to vote for extremist candidates year after year who openly run on bigoted policies.
It’s one thing to have no alternatives to buy or to simply not know of an issue with a company, it’s an entirely different thing to continue to buy something from a company because it would be a minor inconvenience to avoid them.
Nobody is saying that we should go without things that make us happy, but there are plenty of other books to read, movies to watch, and games to play that don’t support the FART.
i think 2 things when i see a HP tattoo: 1) that IP was created by a bigot; and 2) i would have made it a pretty high priority to get that tattoo covered or redone into something else, out of respect for the trans people i know
Gonna be honest, if someone is making snap judgements because another person enjoys of the most popular stories of all time, im not sure theyre worth anyones time.
Guess ill go tell my trans friend with a deathly hallows tat they are bigoted.
Unfortunately, Death of the Author does not apply here. Engaging with her media keeps her relevant and continues to introduce her and her beliefs to new people. Plus, the media itself (especially the books) has its own issues. Her bigotry is not a new thing.
As a bisexual trans woman living in the US, my daily life is dictated by the laws bigots like her have enacted and my ability to keep myself safe by spotting red flags. There are parts of this country - entire states - that I would never visit without an M249 SAW loaded and ready.
Being able to continue to engage with a piece of media without the problematic parts of it and the opinion of the author about those who do engage with her media as supporters of her politics bothering you doesn’t make someone a bigot, but it is a red flag. And much like those who say they support trans rights and continue to vote for people like Trump anyways, I’m not gonna trust you to have my back. Because you’ve shown which of the two you value more.
not the person you were answering to (I specify as someone already got confused).
I think I see your point but I personally disagree with some of the premises.
Engaging with her media keeps her relevant and continues to introduce her and her beliefs to new people
I think this is at least partially inaccurate. Private conversations with people who already read the books/watched the movie have virtually no effect whatsoever. Introducing it to new people may have an effect, but I think it’s marginal to the point of being irrelevant. I still agree that an impact exists though.
Plus, the media itself (especially the books) has its own issues.
Here I am not sure what exactly you imply, but I believe that it’s perfectly fine to engage with media that has ideas, or language, we don’t agree with (a point beautifully conveyed in the movie American Fiction). Regarding the “problematic” parts, they are all pretty much related to abstract analysis that are simply irrelevant for the target audience. It doesn’t even matter if globins are actually inspired by Jewish stereotypes or not, even if it was the case and if it was done with bad intentions, none in the target audience will actually understand any of it or be conditioned by it.
And much like those who say they support trans rights and continue to vote for people like Trump anyways
I think this is a very unbalanced comparison. Voting has direct impact on policies, engaging with HP does not, and when it does (money to J.K.R., donation to parties, policy) is very indirect. If we need to apply the same standard for any indirect relationship, we fallback to the “As soon as you buy anything you are guilty” (doesn’t even matter what you buy if you do with a card, for example).
Obviously you are free to consider what you want a red flag, but personally I consider support of certain ideas, and concrete actions to provide that support, something to judge people on.
It may not be marginal so I have to think about that one…
Can take away private discussions with past readers who don’t & won’t [financially] support JK over my dead body though :p (that one is super hard to argue against IMO)
Not really a part of this conversation but I just wanted to say that I literally do subscribe to all these statements lol. I try to reduce harm where I can, and not playing a game made by Blizzard is so easy.
do you live in a capitalistic society? do you criticize anything at all, ever? do you consume literally anything? thank you for also being “ideologically inconsistent”
There are critiques to be made, that is very clear.
But just lumping everyone into the bigot pile because the author of one of the most beloved children’s stories decided to lose her mind 15 years afterwards is kind of a bad idea, no?
I think its pretty safe to say youre just being prejudiced.
I think you are missing the point in the heat of the discussion. The point is that you make quite far logic jumps from “I like Harry Potter (because I read the book when I was a kid, because of…whatever)” to “I am a bigot (because the author 20 years later went bananas)”. You are making these jumps for other people, but people are trying to show that this logic has only one logical conclusion: everything you do is wrong. However, the inconsistency is in not applying this logic to everything but selectively.
You’ll find most are particularly unconcerned about your fervent desire to shout into the Internet void. We’re not going to get used to it because we really don’t care.
Better apply that energy to other things, too.
Like the rolling stones? You’re a pedophile.
Enjoy Top Gun? You support scientology.
Ever played any Blizzard game? You support sexual harassment.
Ever ate anything related to Nestle? You support slavery.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. You better get used to it.
Pretty much everything you listed is a convenience that can fairly easily be cut out of your life. Except for Nestlé, because keeping tracking of what brands are under any given food companies umbrella is not an easy task and the lack of competition means that oftentimes there are simply no good alternatives.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, but that doesn’t mean that I’m under any obligation to respect somebody who continues to give money to an author who has openly said that they consider buying their merchandise as explicit support of their politics and donates a portion of their proceeds to extremist political groups with ties to far-right Christian groups in the US. The same as I’m not obligated to respect Republicans who say that they’re not racist, homophobic, etc, but still continue to vote for extremist candidates year after year who openly run on bigoted policies.
It’s one thing to have no alternatives to buy or to simply not know of an issue with a company, it’s an entirely different thing to continue to buy something from a company because it would be a minor inconvenience to avoid them.
Nobody is saying that we should go without things that make us happy, but there are plenty of other books to read, movies to watch, and games to play that don’t support the FART.
Enjoying Harry Potter doesn’t mean they have to engage with JK Rowling.
It can mean talking about it with fans, getting a tattoo, cosplaying, or just rereading a book.
If you see a harry potter tattoo and the first thing you think is “bigot”, youre just a prejudiced dickface.
LOL
If someone got a tattoo before rowling “came out” as a giant dickface, does that make the person with the tattoo a bigot?
Just try thinking for a moment. There is a pretty simple conclusion here.
i think 2 things when i see a HP tattoo: 1) that IP was created by a bigot; and 2) i would have made it a pretty high priority to get that tattoo covered or redone into something else, out of respect for the trans people i know
Gonna be honest, if someone is making snap judgements because another person enjoys of the most popular stories of all time, im not sure theyre worth anyones time.
Guess ill go tell my trans friend with a deathly hallows tat they are bigoted.
They are definitely interesting at least. Do they just not connect the two in their mind? Or maybe its just a great tattoo.
Unfortunately, Death of the Author does not apply here. Engaging with her media keeps her relevant and continues to introduce her and her beliefs to new people. Plus, the media itself (especially the books) has its own issues. Her bigotry is not a new thing.
As a bisexual trans woman living in the US, my daily life is dictated by the laws bigots like her have enacted and my ability to keep myself safe by spotting red flags. There are parts of this country - entire states - that I would never visit without an M249 SAW loaded and ready.
Being able to continue to engage with a piece of media without the problematic parts of it and the opinion of the author about those who do engage with her media as supporters of her politics bothering you doesn’t make someone a bigot, but it is a red flag. And much like those who say they support trans rights and continue to vote for people like Trump anyways, I’m not gonna trust you to have my back. Because you’ve shown which of the two you value more.
not the person you were answering to (I specify as someone already got confused).
I think I see your point but I personally disagree with some of the premises.
I think this is at least partially inaccurate. Private conversations with people who already read the books/watched the movie have virtually no effect whatsoever. Introducing it to new people may have an effect, but I think it’s marginal to the point of being irrelevant. I still agree that an impact exists though.
Here I am not sure what exactly you imply, but I believe that it’s perfectly fine to engage with media that has ideas, or language, we don’t agree with (a point beautifully conveyed in the movie American Fiction). Regarding the “problematic” parts, they are all pretty much related to abstract analysis that are simply irrelevant for the target audience. It doesn’t even matter if globins are actually inspired by Jewish stereotypes or not, even if it was the case and if it was done with bad intentions, none in the target audience will actually understand any of it or be conditioned by it.
I think this is a very unbalanced comparison. Voting has direct impact on policies, engaging with HP does not, and when it does (money to J.K.R., donation to parties, policy) is very indirect. If we need to apply the same standard for any indirect relationship, we fallback to the “As soon as you buy anything you are guilty” (doesn’t even matter what you buy if you do with a card, for example). Obviously you are free to consider what you want a red flag, but personally I consider support of certain ideas, and concrete actions to provide that support, something to judge people on.
It may not be marginal so I have to think about that one…
Can take away private discussions with past readers who don’t & won’t [financially] support JK over my dead body though :p (that one is super hard to argue against IMO)
Where can I read more about this?
Not really a part of this conversation but I just wanted to say that I literally do subscribe to all these statements lol. I try to reduce harm where I can, and not playing a game made by Blizzard is so easy.
i don’t like the rolling stones or any of that other shit, but you make a good point. literally everything we do is immoral.
the thing is, i’m still going to shit on rowling and harry potter. YOU better get used to it
Lol, then thanks for spreading hatred in an unjust system?
That’s super cool of you.
Youre using Lemmy right now, a system created by an unabashed tankie.
Congrats on the genocide support you fascist.
/s
yea. and i live in america. so i guess you’ll also say i “support genocide” too right?
If im using your logic, yes.
But im not. You are.
what is the goal here? to get me to stop criticizing rowling? um, no.
yes, it’s likely you’re going to find some asshole in the group of people who created the thing you’re consuming.
but also: fuck j.k. rowling, and fuck harry potter
i don’t know what else to tell you
Just trying to point how ideologically inconsistent you are.
I dont know what else to tell you.
do you live in a capitalistic society? do you criticize anything at all, ever? do you consume literally anything? thank you for also being “ideologically inconsistent”
There are critiques to be made, that is very clear.
But just lumping everyone into the bigot pile because the author of one of the most beloved children’s stories decided to lose her mind 15 years afterwards is kind of a bad idea, no?
I think its pretty safe to say youre just being prejudiced.
I think you are missing the point in the heat of the discussion. The point is that you make quite far logic jumps from “I like Harry Potter (because I read the book when I was a kid, because of…whatever)” to “I am a bigot (because the author 20 years later went bananas)”. You are making these jumps for other people, but people are trying to show that this logic has only one logical conclusion: everything you do is wrong. However, the inconsistency is in not applying this logic to everything but selectively.
You’ll find most are particularly unconcerned about your fervent desire to shout into the Internet void. We’re not going to get used to it because we really don’t care.
and yet…you reply
Because I’m an avid shit poster that can’t resist low hanging fruit.
fair enough. don’t forget: fuck j.k. rowling
The fuck did the rolling stones do?