• VeganPizza69 Ⓥ@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    I’ve noticed the phenomenon of humans desentientizing someone by declaring them as “sacred”, which works as a prelude to “sacrifice”. Seems like some very ancient human bullshit based on objectification, but it’s not objectification for commodification, it’s objectification in the service of the ego by trying to convince one’s ego that you’re not a monster, that you’re nice and good.

  • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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    2 days ago

    Man, it’s been a few years since I’ve heard ‘spiritual’ people talk, and I did not miss it at all.

    • BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee
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      17 hours ago

      I cut ties with my very best friend, because she went from becoming vegan to believing in tarot cards to full on antivax flat earther who told me that i shouldn’t let my mom do chemo, because she has some good chrystals in like a year or two.

      I honestly don’t miss rolling my eyes all day long.

    • zarkanian@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      2 days ago

      Not necessarily. It can be something as simple as “My spiritual beliefs just happen to align with what I want to do already”. If you want to eat meat, it’s very tempting to find a “spiritual” reason for doing it. Nobody can question you; it’s just what you believe!

      • BroBot9000@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Except we need to hold even spirituality to some measurable degree of sanity.

        What if someone truly believes that they need to kill someone or a group of people because of their beliefs, that’s not permissible. It’s not rational or logical to let religious beliefs be a free card to do whatever shit they want.

        Religion is a fucking cult.

        • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
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          2 days ago

          There are established criteria of what defines a cult, and any spiritual belief system is not necessarily a cult, unless it meets all of that criteria.

  • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
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    3 days ago

    (Haven’t watched the video yet); As a spiritually-inclined person who is also vegan, I do think that is something that other religious people need to come to terms with. Particularly when it comes to witchy and neopagan communities, there’s too much (ie., more than zero) interest in reviving the dead practice of animal sacrifice.

    On the other hand I would like to see some data on which proportion of people in each religion are vegan. Which belief systems have the highest percentages of vegans, relative to their own populations?

    • Zoboomafoo@slrpnk.net
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      2 days ago

      Which belief systems have the highest percentages of vegans, relative to their own populations?

      Buddhism and other neighboring systems tend to arrive at veganism being virtuous

      • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
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        2 days ago

        That’s also my hunch - that Buddhism in particular has a high percentage of vegans. I still would like to see the data though.

        • Aux@lemmy.world
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          22 hours ago

          Except that a strict Buddhist diet is not vegan. Somehow traditional religions always realised that humans need animal protein.

              • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
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                5 hours ago

                The wikipedia article on Buddhist vegetarianism covers everything here. You can see from some writings that Buddha had made some concessions of eating animal flesh for members of the sangha, but that was only because of their specific context, where they were operating outside the normal economy and relying on receiving alms. Another passage sets further restrictions on monastics:

                “… meat should not be eaten under three circumstances: when it is seen or heard or suspected (that a living being has been purposely slaughtered for the eater); these, Jivaka, are the three circumstances in which meat should not be eaten, Jivaka! I declare there are three circumstances in which meat can be eaten: when it is not seen or heard or suspected (that a living being has been purposely slaughtered for the eater); Jivaka, I say these are the three circumstances in which meat can be eaten.”

                Another text further declares that there are five type of livelihood that the lay follower should not engage in - one of them is the selling of animal flesh.

                So to situate these requirements in a modern context, it would be like a person living a vegan or vegetarian lifestyle to the best of their ability - but also accepting whatever the food pantry has to offer, or possibly going dumpster diving and eating whatever they find. The point is to seek to do the best we can, as much as our circumstances allow.

                In Mahayana the injunctions against consuming animals only gets more direct and unequivocal. And in general Buddhist ethics are naturally very aligned with at least the reduction of suffering side of vegan ethics.

                The example in your video sounds like it was largely a socioeconomic matter - they do what they can, with what they have. Of course it could also be, at least to some extent, that they haven’t engaged with the matter enough to move away from oyster consumption. They might not have a central nervous system, but things are not so cut and dry.

                https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_vegetarianism

                https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zvE7W1l8wfY

                I’m sorry, but if the insights of a respected and accomplished Standford scientist, who routinely contributes original science on the relevant subject matter, is spreading unscientific lunacy - then what exactly counts as good science to you?

        • anticarnist@vegantheoryclub.org
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          23 hours ago

          Just to add to the mix: Third Day Adventists encourage going vegan, and quite a few of them are vegetarian. It’s not a huge religion, but I know that they’ve even been studied for their longevity.

          • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
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            2 days ago

            It’s implicit in their stance against exploitation. A chicken, for example, cannot give their eggs to a human, with informed consent, and therefor taking their eggs is a form of theft and exploitation.

            • commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              2 days ago

              chickens can’t consent to anything at all. it’s absurd. I oppose exploiting fossil fuel deposits, but that has nothing to do with consent either.

              • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net
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                2 days ago

                Okay, but that’s a whataboutism and has nothing to do with animals. Think about the lowly bee, for example. People often get tripped up when it comes to bugs and veganism. They’re smaller, and must be dumber right? And anyway their minds work in such an alien way to our own that we can’t assume they even perceive things the way that we do.

                And yet if you poke a beehive, the behavior of its inhabitants appears to be something that’s functionally identical to anger, and they begin defending their colony in a way where they seem to be expressing something that strongly resembles a lack of consent to having their home assaulted. So even in this case of such a vastly different kind of animal it’s natural to conclude that any taking of their honey is not wanted - not consented to - and thus is a form of exploitation.

                There’s nothing absurd about valuing consent.

    • zarkanian@sh.itjust.worksOP
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      2 days ago

      Did you actually watch the video? He isn’t saying that spirituality is bad. He’s saying that you should be vegan for rational reasons.