Yeah, it’s weird. Sometimes people think it’s pretentious and sometimes people think you’re an idiot, whether you do it correctly or not. Like all rules with the English language, it’s a case-by-case issue. If anyone tells you a rule to remember it, it’s likely wrong more often than it’s correct.
Only if you are not a native speaker of that language, or always? Am I supposed to imitate how Americans botch the names of German car manufacturers like Porsche or Volkswagen if I ever go on vacation there?
In my experience, you’re exempt if it’s from your native language. Unless they can’t tell your native language from your accent (people can tell I’m not a native speaker of English, but they can’t tell what my native language is). British are similar.
I mean, I get it to an extent. I’m much more in favor of linguistic descriptivism rather than prescriptivism, so I acknowledge that terms and pronunciations can develop over time and are not wrong.
If someone pronounces “Beijing” in English with a softened J/G sound (like “beige”) and someone else corrects them with “Oh do you mean bei-JING”, truthfully neither are wrong. The correct pronunciation is whatever people understand and accept.
On the other hand, suggesting that there is a single correct/more authentic pronunciation (particularly in cases where it may not even conform to standard English phonemes) veers into prescriptivism and has problematic connotations.
Hm, but reacting negatively to someone pronouncing it, for lack of a better term, the original way IS presciptivism. This isn’t about someone who pronounces a Spanish word the Spanish way criticizing someone who pronounces it the English way, but the other way around.
I think it depends on intent and what one’s native language is. Basically, why would someone opt to pronounce a word a certain way if they know there’s differing standards.
No one can help accents, so if for example I was natively Spanish speaking and, while speaking English, I pronounced some Spanish-derived loanwords with the occasional rolled R, no one should be faulted for that.
But if I grew up speaking English natively, learned Spanish after the fact, and then I opt to use the Spanish pronunciation of Spanish-derived terms while speaking English, that comes across as pretentious. I used to pronounce these words one way, but then I gained knowledge, and now I self-correct because I (consciously or subconsciously) want to signal to others that I know more about a language than they do. That act of self-correcting would be an implicit declaration that there is a more correct way to pronounce these words that people who know the difference should use, and pushes back on the idea that the pronunciation of a loanword in the destination language can be equally valid.
To be honest, when I’m speaking German, I pronounce it as French as I can (foh-pah), but when I’m speaking English, I pronounce it like the English speakers do (foe-pah).
This video says it both ways I’ve heard. The white people around me pronounce it like the one with the union jack (heavy emphasis on the B), the Spanish speakers pronounce it more like the version with the American flag background (ironic). Most of the other pronunciation videos I could find seem to be made by AI voices and mangle the pronunciation in a myriad of ways. This other video has an actual person speaking well (I can’t speak to the rest of the content of the video).
Pronouncing things as they would be in the language they’re actually in is sometimes a faux pas in American culture, I’ve learned
Yeah, it’s weird. Sometimes people think it’s pretentious and sometimes people think you’re an idiot, whether you do it correctly or not. Like all rules with the English language, it’s a case-by-case issue. If anyone tells you a rule to remember it, it’s likely wrong more often than it’s correct.
Only if you are not a native speaker of that language, or always? Am I supposed to imitate how Americans botch the names of German car manufacturers like Porsche or Volkswagen if I ever go on vacation there?
In my experience, you’re exempt if it’s from your native language. Unless they can’t tell your native language from your accent (people can tell I’m not a native speaker of English, but they can’t tell what my native language is). British are similar.
Let’s be fair: doing things the correct way, or just being slightly educated, is often a faux pas in this wasteland pretending to be a civilization.
Let’s not put them on the pedal stool
I mean, I get it to an extent. I’m much more in favor of linguistic descriptivism rather than prescriptivism, so I acknowledge that terms and pronunciations can develop over time and are not wrong.
If someone pronounces “Beijing” in English with a softened J/G sound (like “beige”) and someone else corrects them with “Oh do you mean bei-JING”, truthfully neither are wrong. The correct pronunciation is whatever people understand and accept.
On the other hand, suggesting that there is a single correct/more authentic pronunciation (particularly in cases where it may not even conform to standard English phonemes) veers into prescriptivism and has problematic connotations.
Hm, but reacting negatively to someone pronouncing it, for lack of a better term, the original way IS presciptivism. This isn’t about someone who pronounces a Spanish word the Spanish way criticizing someone who pronounces it the English way, but the other way around.
I think it depends on intent and what one’s native language is. Basically, why would someone opt to pronounce a word a certain way if they know there’s differing standards.
No one can help accents, so if for example I was natively Spanish speaking and, while speaking English, I pronounced some Spanish-derived loanwords with the occasional rolled R, no one should be faulted for that.
But if I grew up speaking English natively, learned Spanish after the fact, and then I opt to use the Spanish pronunciation of Spanish-derived terms while speaking English, that comes across as pretentious. I used to pronounce these words one way, but then I gained knowledge, and now I self-correct because I (consciously or subconsciously) want to signal to others that I know more about a language than they do. That act of self-correcting would be an implicit declaration that there is a more correct way to pronounce these words that people who know the difference should use, and pushes back on the idea that the pronunciation of a loanword in the destination language can be equally valid.
But if you pronounce faux pas wrong, it’s also faux pas
To be honest, when I’m speaking German, I pronounce it as French as I can (foh-pah), but when I’m speaking English, I pronounce it like the English speakers do (foe-pah).
“Foh” and “foe” both read as the same pronunciation to me. What’s the difference?
https://i.imgur.com/ErOd97q.jpeg
I’m curious, what is it?
[ faux pas ]
Pronounce both x(ks) and s. That’s how I believed it to be pronounced until 30s lmao
I assume most people without actual knowledge of the pronunciation (ie. has only seen it on text) would pronounce it
Fowks pass!
I’ve been mocked and had some people outright pretend they don’t understand what I’m saying when I pronounce guanábana correctly.
How do the people around you pronounce it? I don’t think I’d understand it if it were pronounced differently
This video says it both ways I’ve heard. The white people around me pronounce it like the one with the union jack (heavy emphasis on the B), the Spanish speakers pronounce it more like the version with the American flag background (ironic). Most of the other pronunciation videos I could find seem to be made by AI voices and mangle the pronunciation in a myriad of ways. This other video has an actual person speaking well (I can’t speak to the rest of the content of the video).