Anti-NATO protesters gathered again in Montreal on Saturday to demand Canada withdraw from the alliance, a day after a demonstration organized by different groups resulted in arrests, burned cars and shattered windows.
the purpose of the protest was to demonstrate against what he called NATO’s “complicity with Israel’s military while it’s conducting its genocide in Gaza, … war crimes in Lebanon, Syria” and that “it’s enforcing illegal occupation of Palestinian territories.”
However, Allard rejected accusations of antisemitism. He said the protests were against the actions of the state of Israel and not Jewish people, adding that earlier this week the International Criminal Court issued an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
Expert level challenge: hit a bong every time someone blames the Israeli-Palestinian conflict on some party who isn’t even fucking involved…
God forbid we ever acknowledge the basic truth that the two most culpable parties responsible for the ~80 years of war are, unsurprisingly to many, Israel and Palestine for empowering the worst possible political leaders on both sides. Netanyahu and Hams got the violence and anger that they always wanted and have been working towards for most of our lives, and somehow that’s NATO’s fault in the peabrain’s shallow mind.
NATO is the main thing keeping the western world and democratic ideology safe from countries like Russia, Iran and China. Is this another thing we’re gonna throw under the bus for no reason other than some vague, nonsensical whining about Gaza?
Nah. The US has blood all over it’s hands Re Gaza. Agreed that blaming NATO is nonsense
Vlad’s tentacles slithering into Canada.
80 protesters is all Putin could afford, eh?
Disappointed that this happened at all, but the fact that it was only 80 people is a plus. Seems like it’s just a small group of terminally online agitators.
Glad to see all the genocide sympathizers are out here in force, playing apologist for Russia.
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I can’t believe you talk shit this stupid for free.
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Who’s censoring you? You’ve been talking shit since you created this account, and you’ve never contributed to a conversation except by departing from it.
Seems like their comment talking about the US candidates supporting genocide has been deleted. So either they did it, or they have a point.
Having that particular prophecy fulfill itself would probably make their day. It doesn’t lend them credibility.
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As a violent pacifist
Yup. Nothing I love more than ideological consistency… 😕
Peace through being a hard target.
It’s like the paradox of tolerating intolerance.
WTF does NATO have anything to do with Israel or Palestine?!
WTF would leaving NATO have any effect on Israel or Palestine?!
WTF are these people even on about?
NATO’s “complicity with Israel’s military while it’s conducting its genocide in Gaza
NATO isn’t helping Israel… (while some NATO members might be, that’s not NATO)
It’s not NATO’s job to get involved with with Israel or Palestine…
They’re being manipulated online by someone who wants to dismantle NATO.
and who could that be, I wonder… hmmm… /s
PS: I kind of despise NATO, but I see the necessity versus the current Putler regime - thanks to Putler being fucking stupid enough to overreach and become the unquestionable aggressor in Europe.
What’s wrong with NATO?
You clearly haven’t read any news in the past 40 years…
Not international really. Mostly just things happen8ng in my country and neighbours.
Newsflash: people are generally fucking dumb and have ever only the vaguest idea of what they are talking about.
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The vote was for NATO to demand that the conflict come to an end by September 2025. It is an advisory vote, NATO has no authority.
As you can see, the vote succeeded. NATO’s position is to the conflict to end.
Now the protesters want Canada to pull out of NATO because what? NATO agrees with them?
Huh no it’s the result of a UN vote about the end of palestine occupation. You can notice the US/UK/Germany/Eastern Europe axis clearly aligned with US interests.
That map is not the flex you think it is. I see 12 members of NATO voted for and 15 abstained. Only the US, Canada and Czechia voted against. If anything, it says that NATO is not as monocephalic as most tankies like to portray. Canada is the one giving NATO a bad name on this vote, not the reverse, lol.
Russian propaganda had its way to them
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The idea is to dethrone the US from global power because people are sick of us having our boot on their necks.
But the alternative is China wearing the boot and they’ve proven they would kill every non Han in the world
But the alternative is China wearing the boot and they’ve proven they would kill every non Han in the world
While I hope we can get our shit together in Europe to form a strong alliance that does not depend on the totalitarian US come next year, I’d say that 1) your statement is ragebait bullshit and 2) killing the non-whatever-ethnicity seems very similar to the Gravy Seals policy of the orange fat fuck and his MAGA dipshits.
Idk why you’re being downvoted, you gave a pretty fair description of the situation. Even the Han bit, China doesn’t have any anti-discrimination laws and they’re more than 90% Han Chinese.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/news_218165.htm
https://www.politico.eu/article/nato-backs-israel-and-warns-iran-to-stay-away-gaza-hamas-netanyah/
There is a very good reason the Irish care about Neutrality. The Montrealites are not so different.
Edit: Thank you Chairman Meow for telling me about this: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-blocks-nato-israel-cooperation-over-gaza-war-sources-say-2024-08-01/
07 Sep. 2023 18:25
OCTOBER 12, 2023 7:09 PM CET
LOL you really thought nobody was going to check the dates on those articles? Hmm, I wonder if anything happened in Palestine since last October.
NATO has not changed its position, that’s the thing.
It has, it was forced to by Turkey: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-blocks-nato-israel-cooperation-over-gaza-war-sources-say-2024-08-01/
All joint exercises and meetings were stopped and nothing w.r.t. aid for Israel was approved. All vetoed.
Damn, TIL. Thank you.
And for the first time in my life, thank you Erdogan.
Holy shit, can’t believe I actually have common ground with Erdogan.
Too bad he can’t do what he preaches e.g. Kurds.
Broken clock and all that
In the last UK election, an old-school tankie named George Galloway ran a party. One of his candidates, a former professional cricketer IIRC, called for the UK to pull out of NATO to better control immigration. To his credit, he withdrew his candidacy and dropped out of politics a week later once it became apparent how far out of his depth he was.
Galloway’s more a wide-spectrum troll than a tankie. In his last campaign, he was putting out contradictory campaign materials in Muslim and non-Muslim neighbourhoods.
He was at one point a self-described Stalinist, which is probably as tankie as one can get. He also doesn’t seem to have ever encountered a dictator he didn’t hail as a liberator, though that’s consistent with the usual tankie/campist brainworms (“all evil comes from Washington, therefore anyone who opposes Washington is a hero of the revolution”).
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Looks like Russia is bout wasting time and once again uses their distinguishers network.
Remember trucker blockages of supply routes they did right before the full invasion?
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Those young people are being manipulated by Russia! We need NATO.
Organizers and people arrested should be put on a plane and given a tour through Ukraines east… to see with their own eyes. Too many people seem to be unaware why a counterforce to Russia was created in the first place.
Arguing against NATO for the reasons they state just means more people will suffer like the Palestinians do.
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Haha, no… the USSR made themselves go bankrupt and caused the country to devolve until it was no longer viable all the while genociding their own population. You’ve got some revisionist history on your shirt.
Arguing against NATO for the reasons they state just means more people will suffer like the Palestinians do.
I don’t know why you say this. NATO has been supporting Israel, not Palestine
Because they’re able to see the forest through the trees. It’s why refusing to vote for Kamala was cutting off Palestine’s nose to spite its face.
Disbanding NATO wouldn’t do anything to stop Israel and would increase Russia’s genocide of Ukrainians as well as imperil the entirety of Europe.
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That was not my point. NATO is a stabilizing force. If you remove it, Russia and others will just go on the war path and more people will suffer…
I acknowledge the suffering of the Palestinians and think that needs to stop. In the past I argued that the war crime angle against Netanyahu should be picked up by the icc… and now they ruled there is enough evidence to issue an arrest warrant.
But NATO does not support these atrocities. Countries in NATO do… but how does the NATO organisation do that?
This seems to be of the same mold as “the UN does not do anything but talk” yeah… the UN is a talking organisation… that’s their goal… keep people in dialogue and serve as a platform to hopefully have member countries do stuff.
NATO is a defense alliance… member countries not actively doing something against Israëls agression does not mean that it would be up to NATO to do something.
I’ll try to put things into some historical perspective, as briefly as I can.
NATO was supposed to be a stabilizing force against the Soviet Bloc. During the cold war that was the rational.
Some claim that it was a tool to confirm and maintain US military hegemony and I tend to agree with this take. After approx 1993, through its interventions this started to be more and more obvious, especially to those living in the global South.
Is the post-1993 thing NATO stepping in to stop genocide in Yugoslavia?
When did NATO go to war outside the Iraq war? I seem to have missed that.
NATO didn’t go to war with Iraq, the coalition of the willing did. NATO got involved later on with a mission to train the Iraqi army but that’s a footnote, also, not actual combat.
Afghanistan was a NATO war, triggered by the US invoking Article 5. NATO also intervened in Yugoslavia. Everyone was pretty much genociding everyone there, massacres left and right, but the Serbs had a disproportionate amount of military resources and were able to do systematic genocide which prompted the intervention. And please for your own sanity ignore anything Chomsky has to say about the thing he’s still calling concentration camps refugee shelters. “CIA says something so the opposite must be true” brainworms.
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Yeah that’s right… thanks.
Why “outside the Iraq war” you dishonest fuck? That alone is a pretty good example of how shitty the NATO is. The US have undue power in NATO vassal states due to them empowering fascists and killing left-wing politicians. I even had some of yee jingoist fucks try to defend Gladio lmao. Litteral terrorists.
It’s not a benevolent alliance between partners, it’s a vassal-overlord relationship, a protection racket and a subsidy to their weapon industry. Do not forget who empowered the russian fascists or the talibans in the first place.
It’s not a benevolent alliance between partners, it’s a vassal-overlord relationship,
Why do I only hear that kind of thing from Americans with their penchant for exceptionalism, or vatniks.
You could see just how much control the US has over NATO by the amount of states telling them to pound sand when it came to Vietnam, when it came to Iraq.
Do not forget who empowered the russian fascists or the talibans in the first place.
Reagan, and the Pakistani ISI, respectively.
Well that’s a constructive answer, and not even a good one. Maybe spend a little less time in your echo chambers and look at all factors of conflicts instead of US bad… rest is irrelevant.
NATO has been supporting Israel
Source?
Some ‘members’ of NATO may be…
But NATO has absolutely nothing to do with Israel or Palestine…
Here is NATO
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_52044.htm
You think Turkey is on Israel’s side?.. You’re a goof…
My source for NATO supporting Israel come from NATO’s site. Here are a couple of examples:
NATO Secretary General: “Israel does not stand alone”
Or “indirectly” by claiming in a joint press conference by NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg and the US Secretary of State, Antony Blinken
that we continue to believe clearly that the allegations of genocide are without merit
NATO has stopped all cooperation with Israel because Turkey has vetoed it: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-blocks-nato-israel-cooperation-over-gaza-war-sources-say-2024-08-01/
Yes, those are US bootlickers stating their verbal support, but NATO cannot participate in Palestine because to deploy NATO forces article 5 must be invoked by a member country and it must be in response to an attack on said member country. That is the core principle of the treaty. It’s a self defense treaty, of which Israel is not a part of.
If any country participates in the genocide of the Palestinian people, they do so of their own volition and not at the behest of NATO. Canada leaving NATO or NATO being dissolved would have no bearing whatsoever on the Israeli genocide. The shared NATO membership may foster relationships and cooperation on extra treaty operations, but these are not NATO operations. To be a NATO operation, it has to be an article 5 operation or some operation mandated by the UN, and while the latter has happened, it was highly controversial that it did, as it was beyond the scope of the NATO treaty.
This protest demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what NATO is or how it works and ultimately even if they got what they wanted, which they won’t, it wouldn’t have accomplished what they were aiming for. The fundamental difference between a NATO operation and an operation of NATO member countries not consecrated in the treaty, is that the former is required to remain in NATO and the latter is completely voluntary.
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NATO doesn’t.
Some of its members do. These are not the same things.
Europe need it not Canada and it should be 100% run by Europe
Alliance members get to decide who’s in their alliance. Nobody’s preventing you from expressing your opinion, but it’s pointless.
Because Russia has zero ambitions to conquer the arctics?
Because Canada has no reason to be concerned about Russian aggression? Isn’t literally right next door to them? Doesn’t regularly intercept russian incursions into Canadian airspace? Has nothing to be concerned about regarding the NW passage and Arctic expansion?
Straight up Russian propaganda you’re selling here.
Sure, Ivan.
Tankie
Yeah, I’m sure Canada not being allied with a bunch of other naval powers would be a lot better for the residents of Монреаль in the long run.
It is weird that there are these protest groups wearing particular scarves that always seem to be acting in the interest of Russia.
Honest question: has the USSR or Russia ever attempted to invade Canada? I only know that Canada had sent military around 1917 to fight against communism (well, what is called this way) but I don’t know much more on the topic.
Russia does not recognize our borders in the Arctic. They have rival claims to the Arctic Ocean
Honest question: has the USA or NATO ever attempted to invade the USSR or Russia?
No. But then Chamberlain thought Hitler would stop with central Europe.
To my knowledge Chamberlain is pretty famous for his misjudgments. Anyways, thanks for answering my question
No, Ruzzia in any of its forms has not tried to invade us, to the best of my knowledge
Tankies be tankin’
NATO isn’t the problem, support to Israel is.
An how many of them actually have the first clue why they’re asking for that?
Send them to fight in Ukraine. Let them pick a side too.
When they ask why, tell them this is what would happen if there was no NATO. They would be drafted into the war. Just like in WW2.
Oh, I think we all know which side they would fight if given the choice. They would twerk for ‘Daddy Vladi’.
The problem would sort itself out pretty quickly then. Tankies are what you would refer to as полезные дураки, or useful idiots. If Putin doesn’t care about sending full blooded Russians to die in meat grinder assaults against fortified positions, then he sure as hell wouldn’t give a shit about a bunch of western groupies who want to cosplay the USSR. Most of the idiots on Lemmy.ml and Hexbear wouldn’t last more than a week, I would wager.
You can be against Putin AND against NATO. I would agree that maybe now is not the best time for this demonstration, but NATO is still a bad organization.
NATO is still a bad organization.
How so?
It’s a military and imperialist organization lol. I’ll give you a detailled reply but will also return the question: what good had NATO done exaclty?
From my Canadian perspective, NATO pressures Canada to increase military spending to 2% of GDP. Meanwhile we are in the middle of the biggest housing crisis of the past 50 years, but our (most probably) next prime minister will inject billions in the army.
NATO has supported Israel intervention on multiple occasion. Although they have timidly requested a ceasefire, they continue the official discourse on “the right to defend oneself”.
NATO has embarked on numerous interventions over the past 30 years, notably the "war against terrorism” and wars in Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria… All with great results /s
NATO isn’t doing shit for Ukraine.
Your turn!
Will you tell us what good NATO has done? I took time to reply to you.
No war since WW2 for 80 years. The full invasion of Ukraine happened, because putin was convinced NATO was too weak.
No war in western europe*
And that is mostly due to mutually assured destruction and decolonization and the destruction of European imperial ambitions. If these grand entangling alliances prevented war then WWI wouldn’t have happened. If nukes weren’t a thing then nato would probably be a factor contributing towards another world war rather then preventing it.
No war in countries that joined NATO. #2 goal of NATO is to be prepared to fight enemy together when attacked. #1 goal of NATO is to discourage war, because it’s you attack one NATO country, you start war with 32 countries.
No war since 80 years?!? Did I miss something or do you just choose to exclude Irak, Afghanistan, Syria, Bosnia? I guess that wars that do not directly affect the comfort of Westerners are not ‘real’ wars.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NATO_operations
NATO and the USA basically destroyed Afghanistan and left all of the women of in the hands of barbarians, but fuck them I guess. 20 years of interventions and the situation is worse for everyone except Talibans, thanks NATO!
And again, NATO isn’t doing shit in Ukraine.
You left off the “in Europe” part.
NATO and the USA basically destroyed Afghanistan and left all of the women of in the hands of barbarians
NATO assisted with the initial invasion. The war aims and rules of engagement were poorly thought out, as one would expect of G W Bush. The two choices that made sense were to kill off Al-Qaida and leave, or stay a bit longer and kill every single member of the Taliban, in both Afghanistan and in Pakistan (where they were formed by the Pakistani ISI, and from whom they continue to receive shelter and material support). The US did neither, NATO members faded away after the initial engagement, and the US attempted to stabilize the situation without addressing the root problem. If anyone had asked me, the first option would have been my choice: kill as many jihadis as possible, take out AQ leadership if we can, then go home.
And it was Donald Trump who surrendered the Afghan people, including the women, into the hands of the Taliban, releasing all the Taliban prisoners and getting nothing in return.
But I don’t believe that you’re really all that torn up about the fate of Afghan women. It just feeds your anti-NATO narrative.
And again, NATO isn’t doing shit in Ukraine.
Why would they be? Ukraine is not a NATO country, so the mutual-defense treaty has not been triggered. I suspect you’d be complaining even more if, in response to Putin’s invasion of Ukraine, NATO waded in and we now found ourselves in a war the likes of which hasn’t been seen since WW2: possibly worse.
On the other hand, several NATO member countries are supplying and supporting Ukraine.
You left off the “in Europe” part.
There is no in Europe in the original comment. “No was since ww2 since 80 years old”.
If anyone had asked me, the first option would have been my choice.
Yeah, no one asked you and the US stayed there for 20 years.
And it was Donald Trump who surrendered the Afghan people,
Nah it was Biden lol. Pretty much he first thing he did when he got elected. Jeez do you even have wikipedia?
But I don’t believe that you’re really all that torn up about the fate of Afghan women.
Fuck off, don’t try to think for me. It’s not because YOU don’t care that nobody does.
It just feeds your anti-NATO narrative.
Yeah, I’m anti-NATO lol, and this is one of the reason. Why dont you pro-nato give me some fucking example of what good this organization? Wanna talk about Lybia, how sudden
Why would they be? Ukraine is not a NATO country.
Exactly. So Putin can fuck up the entire planet, NATO wont do shit as long as none of the members are directly attacked. Great organization.
Now do you want to talk about Libya? How Gaddafi was best friend with all the NATO leaders until one day they changed their mind, pushed him away, and send financial sharks to “rebuild” the country.
Again, I suspect this NATO enthusiasm is a US thing since I have never met someone from the left who was cheering for an imperialist military organization that’s only there to serves the economic interest of the west.
NATO is a defensive alliance, but it also standardizes weapons, equipment and command.
The only time when NATO article 5 was actually invoked was Afghanistan after 9/11. The other times it was mostly UN missions where individual countries volunteered to take part. NATO command was used, because it helped to work with multi national presence.
I’m asking the question again: What good exactly did NATO do in Afghanistan during 20 years? Bring democracy? Was it the plan all all along to leave a bunch of weapons and the control of the country to the Taliban? You’re aware that girls don’t have the right to go to school anymore, and often get forced into marriage at 12? Is that what NATO is for?
Are you people just defending NATO because Trump said bad things about it? I’m genuinely curious, since when “leftys” started to cheers for NATO? I’m guessing this is mostly a US thing since being left in this country is basically being center-right in the rest of world.
And just to clarify before being call a tankie, I think Putin is an evil manipulative piece of shit and I can’t wait for him to die (I hope he suffers a lot) so I can take a piss on his grave.
Countries that were subjected to Russian genocide and imperialism place great importance on NATO membership, especially since Russia is doing it all over again. Preventing death and loss of sovereignty is a very real benefit of NATO.
since when “leftys” started to cheers for NATO?
If living in a nato country means you were able to live in peace for the past decades, I can see why people would like that, regardless of them leaning left or right.
I get why in this momement where Ukraine appears to be dependent on NATO support, and where it seems like NATO is required to counterbalence Russia, why people would support the existence of it. But, it is absolutely a tool of US global hegemonic power. The US has committed some incredibly horrific acts to secure its position as sole global super power and NATO as a tool to develop and maintain that power has been used to that end, and will continue to be used in that way. We should not confuse tools of imperial power projection to be a good thing.
