“The race for the White House is too close for comfort,” write parties from around Europe, calling on Stein to throw her support behind Democrat Kamala Harris.
  • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
    239·
    4 days ago

    Breaking news: people with an actual commitment to environmentalism recognize Jill Stein for the obvious Russian shill and extreme threat to environmentalism she is. More at 11.

    • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
      73·
      4 days ago

      I was talking about intentional spoiler candidate for Trump whom Republicans are scrambling to get on as many ballots as possible Jill Stein, but maybe we’re talking about the same person here.

      • index@sh.itjust.works
        7·
        4 days ago

        A nation that sent his troops on an invasion without boots and helmets controls ¾ of the candidates of the most powerful and advanced nation in the world that spend 10 times as much money in war and propaganda than everyone else, that has thousand military facilities around the globe, that has the biggest mass surveillance network ever seen in history with satellites capable of snooping at every inch of the planet at any given time.

        That’s what you are saying.

    • mos@lemmy.worldEnglish
      6·
      4 days ago

      I see these comments a lot and I’d like to learn more. Do you have any articles on this?

      • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
        39·
        4 days ago

        Well, start here at a dinner she attended in Moscow in late 2015:

        Years later, after Trump was elected, she claimed it was just perfunctory, with no real interaction with Putin. She also claims she received no payment for being there, although we know Flynn received 45k from Putin for his attendance.

        Then there is this from 2016 about Russian efforts to divert Clinton voters to stein. She also received intense press coverage by RT, Russians propaganda TV station, that was not banned in the US at the time.

        Here she is refusing to call Putin a war criminal, a stance she suddenly recanted days later.

        Here is evidence she is currently working with the GOP.

        • index@sh.itjust.works
          5·
          4 days ago

          According to the lesser evil logic receiving money from putin is still less evil than being a fascist or being supporting a genocide.

          • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
            13·
            4 days ago

            Coordinating directly with Putin, the oligarch dictator of Russia, who is currently engaged in a genocide in Ukraine, to elect Trump, a US presidential candidate that has told Israel it “needs to finish the job,” a person whose son in law has said gaza is “excellent beach front property,” and who hid the number of drone strikes and their casualties caused during his admin, is the lesser evil?

            I’d call the above stupid, not its far to disingenuous to be an actual real perspective.

            • index@sh.itjust.works
              5·
              4 days ago

              Like it or not that still lesser evil than being a fascist who said israel “needs to finish the job” or being actively fueling a genocide by sending israel fascist government “whatever it needs”.

              Lesser evil logic, you vote for the lesser evil.

              • mosiacmango@lemm.ee
                14·
                3 days ago

                This is nonsense.

                FPTP voting means there are 2 viable options only. If you don’t vote for the “lesser evil,” you are voting for the “greater evil.”

                Choosing to not make a choice is still a choice. Voting for “not Harris” is the exact same thing as voting for “yes Trump” in our system.

                You’re voting for the greater evil by voting for Jill Stein, which is exactly what her and her partners Putin and Trump want.

  • chetradley@lemm.ee
    64·
    3 days ago

    I voted for Jill Stein in 2016 because I assumed Hillary was going to win anyway, and I was in a solidly red state so fuck it, might as well vote 3rd party.

    Then Trump won.
    Then I learned about Stein’s backwards views on nuclear energy, GMOs and vaccines.
    Then she turned out to be a Russian asset.
    Then she decided to run again and again, knowing that she’s only acting as a spoiler for the Dems.

    Boy did I make a mistake in 2016. I wish there was a perfect candidate for everyone to vote for, but unfortunately keeping Trump out of the white house is the best we can do. Harris isn’t my first choice, but I voted for her on behalf of all of the people who will suffer under another Trump presidency.

    • realitista@lemm.ee
      7·
      3 days ago

      Yep me exactly too. Though I vote in a solidly blue state, it won’t change much but the dems have gotten better and all 3rd parties have gotten worse in recent years, so I have no problem voting dem this time just to take zero risks.

  • Asafum@feddit.nl
    65·
    4 days ago

    “Stein was reached for comment where she added: what the fuck do you think I’m running for, to actually be president? Ha! You’re telling me to drop out so I can’t do the thing I’m here to do which is help Trump win. You realize how dumb that is right?”

      • Wilzax@lemmy.world
        12·
        4 days ago

        I would believe them if their party EVER got anyone elected, even to state congress, in even a third of the states.

        • meep_launcher@lemm.ee
          18·
          4 days ago

          I said it once, I’ll say it again-

          Until ranked choice vote is established and the electoral college is abolished, there are no serious third parties.

          The most serious third party imo is the Forward Party, only because they have one platform which is RCV, and they are quietly working in local elections only. They aren’t running any candidates in federal elections, although they had a big win in helping Alaska switch to RCV for their congressional race, which nudged out Sarah Palin.

          With the forward party in conjunction with fairvote.org , they are laying the groundwork to create possibly the most revolutionary change to American politics ever.

          But in order to do that, we need to have elections. Vote Harris.

          • Zaktor@sopuli.xyzEnglish
            3·
            3 days ago

            FPTP means there will be two viable candidates in each race, it doesn’t mean they’ll always be the same two parties. There are lots of races in deep blue areas that don’t have a viable Republican challengers where the Greens (if they were a real party) could mount a challenge. Sort of like the Justice Democrats, but making the play in an unopposed general election instead of the primary. Then they could caucus (or not I suppose) with the Democrats like the independents do.

            • meep_launcher@lemm.ee
              1·
              2 days ago

              I think the challenge this argument has is that it ignores the spoiler effect that is the biggest problem in FPTP, and it assumes party changes have happened because a third party successfully unseated a traditional party in a sort of coup.

              First, the spoiler effect is very real. You’ll notice the better a third party does, the worse it is for that whole faction of the electorate. It’s a bit of a paradox but you can see it with the notable 3rd party runs. Teddy Roosevelt got Woodrow Wilson elected. Ross Perot gave the election to Clinton by splitting the right. Ralph Nader solidified Bush as president. The better the third party does, the stronger the spoiler effect. It’s not a conspiracy, it’s just the math.

              Next, when there is a party change, such as the fall of the federalists or the whigs, it is because they fell apart due to losing a war or their positions (such as opposing manifest destiny) became moot and they no longer had a purpose. This created a void that was then filled with a new party. This was not because a 3rd party arrived and had a David vs Goliath situation. In this metaphor Goliath was already dead when David showed up.

              Some questions to ask: what does it mean to have a politically diverse election? How does FPTP or RCV have impact in a time where we have more tools for social engineering (like social media and surveillance tools)? What assumptions of the Republican and Democratic parties are we making? What assumptions are we making on the electorate that they are composed of?

              • Zaktor@sopuli.xyzEnglish
                2·
                2 days ago

                This whole fucking post is about candidates in deep blue areas running without a viable challenger and you come back to write paragraphs about the spoiler effect? The whole of the post is about places where the spoiler effect does not apply. You didn’t read anything you replied to.

                • meep_launcher@lemm.ee
                  2·
                  2 days ago

                  That was an aggressive reply and wasn’t very Mr. Rodgers of you.

                  Did you learn nothing from PBS kids?

        • TheTechnician27@lemmy.worldOPEnglish
          11·
          4 days ago

          But they brag about five (5) whole Green Party members getting elected to state legislatures since 1985. You know, that’s like one (1) whole member every eight (8) years, which is a lot considering there are only thousands of state legislature positions across the US (some of which have such little competition fucking Buck Cluck could probably get elected to a few dozen of them). So I think your point is moot tbh.

  • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
    9·
    3 days ago

    Stein pulling out wouldn’t result in more votes for Harris. It would just make more people stay home. I think they’re more worried about greens hitting the 5% national threshold.

    Stop assuming these votes are stolen from Harris. She hasn’t earned them.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
        1·
        2 days ago

        I suspect they’re acting as controlled opposition to absorb activist energies. They’re openly shepherding activist voters to a capitalist party in this action.

        • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          1·
          2 days ago

          Wasn’t aware there was an anti-capitalist candidate running, but that’s beside the point. Why do you accuse other countries’ parties of controlled opposition? This doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying they’re propping up Kamala. Many European greens are more left than Stein

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
            1·
            2 days ago

            Yes, unfortunately the corruption of US capitalists spreads its tendrils across the globe.

            There are multiple anti-capitalist candidates running this election. But US media is completely corrupted, and gives them almost zero coverage. But kinda weird you said you didn’t know there’s any running, while commenting on an article about one of them.

            • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              1·
              2 days ago

              Most of her policies seem to be social democratic. And I find the suggestion that European politics are nothing but a US puppetshow pretty insulting.

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
                1·
                2 days ago

                K. Let me know when European countries stop acting as vassal states, and putting their interests after those of the US.

                You’re currently paying exorbitant energy prices, because the US & UK destroyed a critical pipeline, and the only people held accountable were those Europeans calling for an investigation into the terrorism.

    • corsicanguppy@lemmy.caEnglish
      6·
      2 days ago

      She hasn’t earned them.

      The binary choice and the risks of failure have been mentioned so many times, that I worry for people who don’t get it.

        • Hylactor@sopuli.xyz
          1·
          2 days ago

          At best, one candidate doesn’t do enough to oppose genocide, while the other candidate offers their full throated support, advising that Isreal “just finish the job”. We’re not looking for a perfect candidate, we’re looking for the best candidate. And there is absolutely a candidate with a better track record of compassion, and a likelier chance of fighting the fire rather than fueling it in exchange for political favors.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
            1·
            2 days ago

            Either way, you’re supporting a criminal. I don’t think it’s expecting a lot asking a politician to follow the law.

    • Hylactor@sopuli.xyz
      5·
      2 days ago

      Say you need a life saving operation. Your choices are: a skilled surgeon who is suspected to have cheated on their spouse, George Clooney from the hit TV show ER, or a mediocre at best veterinarian. This is essentially the state of things. A qualified person, a fictional character, and a person who is tangentially qualified at best.

      The country needs a life saving operation. Harris is extremely qualified candidate who at worst carries some of the murky ethical baggage of any career politician. Trump is not only unqualified, but uniquely contraindicated (vindictive, foreign debts, exceedingly old, litany of bonafide legal issues, unrepentant rapist). And Stein is at best a politician shaped object, who is perhaps qualified enough to be a pundit or a podcast host.

      For the safety of people of color, for women, for the environment, for the rule of law, for diplomacy, for the economy, there is only one pragmatic choice, and that choice is Harris.

      • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
        2·
        2 days ago

        Nothing in Harris’ record shows she’s qualified. She’s done a measurably shit job in every position she’s been in.

        • Hylactor@sopuli.xyz
          6·
          2 days ago

          Really, nothing at all qualifies her? Not her 6 years as an attorney general? Or her 4 years as a senator? Her 3 years as vice president? She’s better educated, has a better resume, doesn’t have 30 something felonies, and isn’t 78 years old. We already tried Trump as president once and America survived by the skin of our teeth. And he has not improved as a candidate in any way in the intervening 4 years.

          • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
            1·
            2 days ago

            The horrible shit she did while working those positions hurts her more than it helps. Trump’s problems don’t erase that.

            She’s also openly declaring her intent to commit a felony when in office, by arming a genocide, which is one of the worst crimes a human being can possibly commit.

            • Hylactor@sopuli.xyz
              1·
              2 days ago

              You’re using some pretty high flying rhetoric for someone who isn’t citing any specifics. Which “horrible shit” are you most concerned with? The 20 billion dollar settlement she won for people with foreclosed homes? The 1.1 billion dollar settlement she won for defrauded students and veterans? The tie breaking votes she cast in the Senate, more than anyone in history, that helped pass among other things the 1.9 trillion dollar covid 19 stimulus, and the inflation reduction act, which generated 115 billion in tech investments and generated an estimated 95 thousand new jobs? Her explicit opposition to the death penalty? Her work against hate crimes? Her defense of the LGBTQ community? She is capable, intelligent, and proven.

              • surph_ninja@lemmy.world
                1·
                2 days ago

                Between her fighting to keep arming a genocide, fighting to withhold evidence that would’ve cleared defendants, and other crimes she’s committed in office, I think it’s clear that either way this goes we’re getting a president who does not believe they have to obey the law.

    • dance_ninja@lemmy.world
      3·
      2 days ago

      You’re right. If they weren’t going to vote for Harris, to me it sounds like they’re perfectly fine with another Trump presidency and the decades of consequences that would follow.

  • Intergalactic@lemmy.world
    41·
    4 days ago

    Good. I was a part of the Green Party, I left when I learned they were planning of running a candidate this year, when internally, we were floating around the idea of NOT running a candidate. I am now a member of the Working Families Party.

  • 2ugly2live@lemmy.world
    19·
    4 days ago

    Damn, even people in other countries seem to understand what’s going on. I guess they don’t see both sides as the same for some reason. 🤔

  • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works
    14·
    4 days ago

    I don’t think she really has a choice this close to the election. RFK has tried suing to get off the ballot in a few states and failed.

  • nooneescapesthelaw@mander.xyz
    10·
    3 days ago

    What the fuck do I care what europoors think? I don’t like Jill Stein but they should mind their own business! In America we understand that a country’s domestic politics are only the citizens’ business, that’s why we don’t involve ourselves in any foreign country’s domestic matters

    • DarkThoughts@fedia.io
      19·
      4 days ago

      Jfc…

      1. It’s their, not there.
      2. Climate change does not care about your borders. So of course actual proper Green parties care about green foreign politics.
      3. You’re literally in everyone’s face when it comes to other countries.
    • theprogressivist @lemmy.world
      11·
      4 days ago

      That’s rich. I’m American, too, but the whole isolationist stance is bs. They are our allies, and whatever happens here effects them as well. You fell for the propaganda, champ.

      Also, it’s funny that you don’t choose not to see how much our own country involves itself in the affairs of other countries. Every American knows this.