- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
- cross-posted to:
- [email protected]
"How has Stein fared as a leader? By AOC’s perfectly reasonable standard, she’s done abysmally. As of July 2024, a mere 143 officeholders in the United States are affiliated with the Green Party. None of them are in statewide or federal offices. In fact, no Green Party candidate has ever won federal office. And Stein’s reign has been a period of indisputable decline, during which time the party’s membership—which peaked in 2004 at 319,000 registered members—has fallen to 234,000 today.
This meager coalition can’t possibly kick-start a legitimate political movement, capable of organizing voters and advancing ideas outside of perennial electoral events. It’s just large enough, however, to spoil the work of those who put in this kind of work."
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The Green Party is dying! Save it SB!
Didn’t you hear? @[email protected] “isn’t even voting for Jill Stein.”
He does respect your right to vote for whoever you want though!
Yes, thank you for realizing that I do respect and support your rights to vote for whoever you want. As do I. Thank you for the shout out!
Whooosshhhhh
Lemmy Whooosshhhhh is best Whooosshhhhh
I’m not voting for her.
If you have issues with the article, you can take it up with the people who wrote it. Thanks, friend!
I don’t have issues with the article and I’m not voting for her. Thanks, friend! :)
It’s a two party system. Everybody knows if you run as a third party you’re merely increasing the chances that the ones furthest from you politically will be elected.
It’s impossible for a third party candidate to be running for president in the US in good faith unless they’re complete fucking idiots with no idea how the political system works.
Jill Stein knows how the system works. So obviously she’s not acting in good faith.
Simple as that.
Everybody capable of rational thought knows that. However there are plenty of tankie douchebags who would love to tell you what a wrong ShItLiB you are for saying this basic truth
Seems like you beat the coin flip today, and people agree with you. Watch out, next time the Libertarians and Communists will tell you that just getting on the ballot is enough to make a dent in the two party system…
The communist party of the United States has consistently refused to run candidates for major offices very specifically to avoid spoiling the vote.
The Communist Party, yes. The air-quote Communists on Lemmy are just as happy to tell you to vote third party as anyone else.
I am a leftist and I celebrate everyone’s right to vote how they please. If people would like to hear my reasons for voting for Kamala, or my concerns about third party spoiling, I can tell them. But a person’s right to vote is more important to me than how they vote. That’s what democracy and being for the people is about. Use your rights, I support that. We all deserve to use our rights.
What an insufferable position and way of arguing for it. To anyone reading this thread, she only gets worse with each reply. She’s arguing for… Literally Everything necessarily taking a backseat to protecting people from even the mere concept of them feeling like their voting rights are taken away. Despite the fact that no one in this thread is trying to do that, and only Republicans are ever interested in such a thing, she’s really oddly interested in making sure people vote for third parties, which helps Republicans, without ever hearing the truth about third parties because it might hurt their feelings. Which as we all know, is definitely taking their voting rights away.
She undoubtedly will point out some out of context quote about how the rational person in this discussion is a fAsCisT but each time she did that previously in the thread below, she wasn’t doing it in good faith so you be the judge.
You realize your strawman here is a bad faith argument? In fact, I actually can’t find a single good faith argument in anything you’ve written. You start out with an appeal to emotion. Then strawman. Then no true scotsman. Then strawman. Then strawman. Then strawman. Also we all know you’re the “”“rational”“” other person on an alt account. You type the same and it’s been days since anyone responded to this thread. Lol.
I am voting for Kamala and I’m perfectly happy to tell people why. Maybe people will agree with me and that’s great. Otherwise, I still support someone’s right to vote no matter how they vote. Because that’s what a right is, and that’s what the right to vote grants. I disagree with any speech that advocates for limiting the right to vote, particularly because I’m a woman and women’s rights are being taken away actively.
I also think that while yes, obviously Jill Stein is a Russian asset, that doesn’t mean every independent or third party candidate is. I am on the side of the every day person and am fine with hearing criticisms of Dems and of the way we currently vote.
I will point out any speech that is a dog whistle to eroding our rights, though. I’ve quoted the specific issues with what you said. I don’t really need to say more. I accept you think it’s fine to control others. I accept that you refuse to learn about civil rights and the right to vote. I accept that you refuse to analyze propaganda and dog whistles in your speech. Whatever, it’s your opinion. I also think your little comment serves as an advertisement anyway for any people reading this thread besides you, lol.
Quite conspiratorial to think I’m that other person… do you do that? Why would you even think that people would go through the trouble? Weird.
I will point out any speech that is a dog whistle to eroding our rights, though.
More conspiratorial thinking. in any case it’s pretty ridiculous to try and tell someone they shouldn’t inform people about third parties because they might get their feelings hurt and then… Feel unable to vote or something?
I’m not sure you could be more milquetoast if you tried. Sure, it’s important that everyone has the right to vote. It is equally as important that everyone understand that unless they vote one of two ways, their vote is essentially going to waste at best, and going against their best interests at worse. A vote for a third party candidate is a vote cast against your closest aligned Democrat or Republican candidate. A vote not cast for them is cast against them. That’s just the way the system works. It sucks. I hate it. I want to change it, but wishful thinking isn’t fixing the problem, and until its fixed, voting third party is a net loss for the voter. That’s the shitty reality of it. People that tell you to vote third party are either idiots, or malicious, and no one should be listening to either of those groups when it comes to voting for the future of the country. Work on changing the system first, then cast the vote you want to cast.
It’s not “equally important.” No, the right to vote is more important. Period.
Sure, your perspective and how you and many others view this election, is that it’s important to vote for either Kamala or Trump. But that’s your perspective. Totally fine to discuss but it doesn’t supercede the literal civil right to vote. Or to run for office.
Today and yesterday, I’ve seen people advocate for removing the right to vote and run for office here on Lemmy. I’ve seen people use the word “disenfranchised” wrong. Our civil rights are actively in jeopardy - see: abortion access. People being confused on how important voting rights are and what that means is BAD. I have seen a LOT of fascist rhetoric lately. It is NOT leftwing or radical or progressive to be fascist and deny people their vote just because you dislike it. It is NOT leftwing or radical or progressive to deny people the right to run for office because it makes another party’s job harder. That is actually literally fascism. What the fuck.
And again, I’m voting for Kamala. I generally agree with your reasoning. I do not agree with the messaging or the idea that people should be forced into thinking and voting like me.
Totally fine to discuss but it doesn’t supersedes the literal civil right to vote. Or to run for office.
By that logic, the right to own a gun supersedes the need to be educated on how they work. “Here’s a loaded 9mm, Timmy. I’m sure you can figure the rest out.”
I do not agree with the messaging or the idea that people should be forced into thinking and voting like me.
And I’m not saying that anyone should be forced to vote any one way. Vote however you want, but being educated on how it works is just as important as the act itself. If every voter were educated on the system and understood how it worked, then we wouldn’t have third party candidates. Actually, strike that, we would have them. We wouldn’t have this first past the post bullshit we do now, and third party candidates would have a chance at being elected if they represent the will of the majority.
Untl we have that, though, people should understand that voting doesn’t work how they want it to, it works how it works. If you want to feed your family by fishing with cheetos, go for it, but don’t tell everyone else that if we all fish with cheetos suddenly fish will take the bait. The nature of the beast is that we vote in a two party system, and we will until we change it at a fundamental level. The fact that we have people saying that third party voting is a viable option tells me that there is a lot of misinformation and a strong lack of education in our voting populace.
Oh yeah the kind who will do anything so long as it won’t help
That’s the best summary possible
It makes total sense for Russia to make Jill Stein a Russian asset because it neutralizes an anti-oil organization. Oil is very important to Russia’s economy so of course they don’t want any phase-out of fossil fuels.
“Useful idiot” is probably more accurate than “asset”. Even AOC doesn’t go that far…
Was the Green party ever alive? I don’t think so.
I liked Nader, and there were a few candidates inbetween before Stein took it over for good. But now even Nader isn’t for Stein…
Can you imagine if you campaigned against trump half as much as you campaign against progressive parties?
I imagine that most of it is going there, at least if one were to follow the money trail. It’s just that the Green party is so much smaller, so a few bits of afterthought saber rattling hurt them a lot worse than a much larger spend (by the Dems) against the GOP hurts the GOP.
Jill Stein is a lot of things, but “progressive” ain’t one of 'em. I’d love for Harris and the Dems to be more progressive, but they’re going to need a better example than Stein.
https://www.jillstein2024.com/platform
Same request for you, which parts of the platform arent progressive
That’s a long list of progressive ideas. Too bad she can’t possibly win in a two party system. I like the assumption that if she did get the office all that would immediately take effect. That’s not how it works. Unfortunate for many of the ideas she lists, but also as a protective measure in case people like Trump get in and sweep what’s left away to put in place a dictatorship. Like he’s promised to do.
So putting away the policy comparisons and party names, and just looking at the math. Can a third party win in an established two party system in a FPTP election? The answer is a simple no. I’d love to see a ranking system in place to allow diversity of opinions have a chance in elections, and there’s a bill right now to do that nationally, by Democrats because they’re the ones that would do well in such a system. Let’s fix the real problem and stop this decades-long third party dream to do the impossible.
And until there’s a grassroots movement and support at the local levels, the Green Party is always going to look like and be the spoiler party, no matter how many nice ideas they have bullet points for.
Here’s a question for you: How many of those Green policies are similar to Harris policies? I saw a few, I just wonder if you realize that you could get some of that stuff done easily with Democrats in all three seats of power. Which we have a chance to do.
I like the assumption that if she did get the office all that would immediately take effect.
Well if youre just gonna flat out lie
Can you imagine if Jill Stein was progressive? Yeah me neither…
https://www.jillstein2024.com/platform
Can you point what parts of the platform arent progressive?
Man the anti-stein crowd cant tolerate the most basic of questions
OP pointed a big red arrow at Stein’s stated beliefs, there’s your answer. Anything to say except, “Nuh uh!”?
I dont believe there is a single stated belief from Stein in the entire article
What bills has Stein passed?
Ah its that darn work experience required but how do you get work experience paradox.
By this logic we should never elect new politicians.
Wait, the Green Party only had 300k members at it’s peak? That’s 0.001% of the American population. Why are all the tankies in here talking about how voting for Stein will make a difference? That’s not even enough to consider her a contender in most states, much less for the whole country.
Edit: should be 0.1%. My bad and thanks for the correction!
Because they can smugly claim to have accomplished something with their vote while the country burns around them. Must be nice not being at risk under a Trump administration.
Smugly is the perfect word for it. People like that turn my stomach with their attitudes
It’s just large enough, however, to spoil the work of those who put in this kind of work.
The big 2 parties haven’t put in more effort, they’ve just put in more person-hours… Because they have more people. Parties aren’t more worthy of votes based solely on how many people are voting for them, that’s tyranny of the majority. And if they can adapt their platforms to appeal to the small portion of undecided defectors from their primary rival party (each other), they damn sure can tailor their platform to the 100,000s that vote independent/3rd party.
Checking biases, the only other article by this contributor is explaining why it’s actually A Good Thing™ that the Harris campaign doesn’t explain their platform in depth… You know, like you would want a leader to do if you were subject to their rules and policies for any length of time.
Once again, the liberals are quick to assign blame for any of their shortcomings, and it’s just coincidentally never their fault nor responsibility to do anything. Their primary guiding principal for decades has been to change the status quo as little as possible to ensure they can’t be blamed for the changes, while accusing everyone else of destroying democracy.
Its funny that some democrats are doing exactly what you say in your last sentence, calling any criticism of the party an attempt to destroy democracy.
ITT: Blue MAGA and preaching to the choir.
Dr. Jill Stein has improved the Green Party; y’all just believe anything the duopoly and owner-class media spit out when it agrees with your thinking.
Muslim support is at an all-time high for Dr. Jill Stein; that is why AOCPelosi, the new attack dog of Blue MAGA, started up again.
I suggest getting out of the echo chambers and checking out independent journalists instead of continuing the self-censorship.
Oh it’s our resident “independent journalism” guy who seems to post nothing but far-right podcasts.
Blue MAGA is not real
It’s as real as MAGA, but MAGA knows it’s batshit crazy
Yeah so trump supporters are clearly better than lIBeRuLs
They are garbage too
It’s not, and thinking that way does not make you enlightened, it makes you completely unable to comprehend the facts
They are and they call you a nazi for saying free palestine or saying anything remotely negative about any democrat ever
Edit but also the guy you’re replying to is dumb, wtf do they mean by AOCPelosi? They hate eachother xD
They are absolutely not. I’m voting Democratic all the way down the ticket this year and I will say all day that Biden needs to cut the crap with his support for Israel (while also mentioning Trump has been accused of illegally contacting Israel to sabotage the ceasefire deals). Lots of people I know share this exact opinion. Your argument is a strawman.
You and your friends not being that doesn’t mean they’re not real. A lot of democrats will call you a Chinese spy for suggesting that Biden or other democrats could do better on Israel, and to them even remotely questioning whether we should be blindly VBNMWing for all eternity makes you a nazi who’s trying to get trump elected. Blue maga is real, and their existence and the fact all other democrats deny they exist is gonna get Trump elected 100x faster than trying to make democrats more electable and less genocidal. I promise you the moment trump dies, I never vote blue again unless yall get your shit together and stop trying to be almost as far right and and blindly fanatical and genocidal as republicans (slight edit bc I was being kinda hyperbolic on how many dems are magalike)
Is bLuE mAgA in the room with you right now?
BlueMAGA mentality infests society like mosquitoes and roaches
Dehumanizing people …not a good look.
BlueMAGA is an ideology not a person
Kind of like tankies, who long for violence and suffering
Liberals commit social murder daily and you want to go on about violence and suffering.
Low wages is violence, no affordable housing is violence, income inequality is violence, social inequality is violence, for profit healthcare is violence.
Do you see the trend? Violence isn’t just physical, it’s also mental, and economic.
When people say you twist words, this is what they mean.
“Murder” and “Violence” have well accepted meanings - redefining them to mean “anything that doesn’t line up with fringe-left communist ideals” is a propaganda tactic.
