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This post is the canary in the coal mine for the brainrot that has taken over the left. The burgeoise spill orthodoxies that are impossible to comply with unless you’re wealthy and then exclude the working class from the movement. No one needs to be vegan, one can reduce consumption and practice a more ethical and sustainable diet without orthodoxies. Fuck the bourgeoisie, that keeps distracting from the class war.
It’s entirely possible to have an ethical and diverse diet based on respect for animals instead of intensive husbandry. Naturally, the mental illness of the bourgeoisie doesn’t allow them to understand anything but dogmatism. It’s the same illness that stops people from understanding dems ans reps are two sides of the same coin. We’re doomed.
edit: Voting consistent with US timezones, check!
This is the shittiest take I’ve seen all thread.
Eating meat is more expensive than not eating meat, it is more affordable for the working class to eat a plant based diet.
And fuck off with disparaging other leftists and liberation causes.
It’s entirely possible to have an ethical and diverse diet based on respect for animals instead of intensive husbandry.
No. Killing someone that doesn’t want to die is unethical.
So you’re anti abortion?
/s
Nice pivot
I consistently fail to consider there may be a US person on the other side. Your reply confirms I was right to be more verbose.
I am not from the US but another strange pivot
*doubt
That makes no sense. From my experience, left wing people are much more likely to be vegan than the average person.
Leftists being more likely to be vegan than others, does not mean the majority of leftists are vegan.
So what, 1% vs 0.5%? So what?
Are they really left wing? Vegan teacher is one of the most racist ppl out there. I’ve met a bunch of vegan right wing religious nuts. (India)
You can be leftist and racist. Look at the soviets.
So many people are inconsistent it’s not even amusing.
That being said, the idea of extending our compassion to other sentient beings is not often received with immediate cheer by people who are otherwise against oppression in general, sadly even by those who value moral consistency.
From an anti-speciesist perspective, watching anti-racist, anti-sexist, queer positive folks hand wringing and bumbling while trying to explain why “no, wait, here’s why this opresssion is OK” is both sad and disheartening.
The central analogy to the civil rights movement and the women’s movement is trivializing and ahistorical. Both of those social movements were initiated and driven by members of the dispossessed and excluded groups themselves, not by benevolent men or white people acting on their behalf. Both movements were built precisely around the idea of reclaiming and reasserting a shared humanity in the face of a society that had deprived it and denied it. No civil rights activist or feminist ever argued, “We’re sentient beings too!” They argued, “We’re fully human too!” Animal liberation doctrine, far from extending this humanist impulse, directly undermines it.
Speciesism is not merely plausible; it is essential for right conduct, because those who will not make the morally relevant distinctions among species are almost certain, in consequence, to misapprehend their true obligations.
How dare you demand i change my consumption habits? /s
The more we R&D fake meats, plant based or lab grown, the sooner we can achieve this
We don’t need fake meat to go vegan today. That’s a luxury.
Just one more new plant protein bro, then I’ll switch. For real this time bro, just one more fake meat, it’s the only thing preventing me from going vegan bro. Trust me.
If we get good at making it, it will be cheaper than animal meat, and that will get people’s attention
Protein isn’t a thing that humans need to be concerned with. If you are getting enough calories from whole plants, you are automatically getting enough protein. This whole thing is a distraction from animal mercy; you’re intentionally concentrating on all the wrong things so you don’t have to deal with the right ones.
It’s still cheaper for me to get a pepperoni pizza than one without. The raw material cost of the meat isn’t always that significant especially when distributors get involved.
Its a luxury many would not go without
They would if they gave a single shit about the atrocity they committed. They would in an INSTANT. Source: the personal history of every fucking vegan I know
God no. Lab grown meat to compete with the normal meat will have to be cheaper than it. See how the capitalist leeches enshittified every other food (like meat), imagine how will they enshittify something that has to be cheaper…
Bullshit. If people are not willing to change now, fake meat isn’t going to change their mind. They are literally committing ATROCITY. Because they are unwilling to change or examine themselves. Until that is addressed, there is no amount of consumerist bullshit that will solve the problem. “Lab meats will save us!” is the same vibes as buying a gym membership because you’re concerned about your health and then never going.
Common sense. To end suffering you need a huge amount of resources. More than realistically can be acquired. So prioritizing must be made. And of course animals would be lower in the list than humans.
A huge amount of resources to . . . do less and consume less resources?
End deliberately human caused suffering is not the same as end all suffering.
End all suffering implies preventing all animals starving or eating each other. Or animal genocide so nothing is left to suffer.
I think that’s a pretty hyperliteralist take.
So is the original meme.
You just inserted the word “all” and hoped, we wouldn’t notice but I did
I would argue that ‘end’ implies ‘all’, aka ‘eliminate suffering’.
If it said ‘reduce suffering’ or ‘minimise suffering’ that would be different.
But on the other hand, ending all suffering is such an unrealistic demand that no one would say it seriously. Stubbing your toe is suffering but would anybody prioritize ending it? You can read it as a hyperbole if you will.
But that’s kind of the point of the OP in the first place. End all suffering, wait not that suffering.
So given the choice between a reading with addressable solutions, and one that can never be achieved and so no one would ever argue for, you intentionally selected the second interpretation. Because this allows you to reduce the argument to an absurdity, and then disregard it. But you’re just fucking lying to yourself, you’re not really achieving anything except finding a way to arrive at the conclusion that you had pre-selected.
But that’s kind of the point of the OP in the first place. End all suffering, wait not that suffering.
Do you not understand what the role of animals is in all this?
Ever since the invention of agriculture, we have had the capacity to grow more food than humanity can consume. But agriculture is business, and business must grow. So when that limit is hit, we have to find ways to create artificial scarcities to continue growth. We do that by refining plant products into increasingly scarce luxury products. Animals are treated as nothing more than machines for refining save, cheap, sustainable plant products into toxic, polluting, addictive and unsustainable animal products.
Back to your premise: we are not dealing with a lack of resources!!! We are drowning in food!!! We are dealing with nothing more than greed and inhuman cruelty.
Ever since the invention of agriculture, we have had the capacity to grow more food than humanity can consume. But agriculture is business, and business must grow. So when that limit is hit, we have to find ways to create artificial scarcities to continue growth. We do that by refining plant products into increasingly scarce luxury products. Animals are treated as nothing more than machines for refining save, cheap, sustainable plant products into toxic, polluting, addictive and unsustainable animal products.
this is story telling
I don’t know whether you are saying, “this was captivating,” or “this was bullshit.”
it’s devoid of facts. it’s just a story you tell to justify your position.
You can tell it’s bourgeoise because it thinks paying extra 50-100% for alternatives is a choice and not a consequence of the lack of political will. The bourgeoise’s children are the death of left idealism as they contaminate the movement with nonsense that detracts from the class struggle.
Vegan food is literally the cheapest food in the world.
Notice a correlation?
Yes, in Africa the main source of protein is not meat. It also shows everywhere else in the world it is. However, vegan == vegetable based. In Africa, milk is a staple source of fat and protein. But don’t let facts get in the way of your bourgeoise assumptions.
Here, from your sources.
Using your reasoning not eating meat stunts child development. Notice a correlation? /s
Pink means “more meat per person” on top chart tho?
Yes, so the richer the country the more meat, and the poorer the country the less meat. Ergo eating vegetables is cheaper than eating meat.
OH I thought you were saying those countries are poorer because they eat meat for a second lmao I was about to lose my faith humanity my bad.
there could be a thousand confounding factors. you probably oversimplified
you probably oversimplified
It’s not enough to just claim this. You’ve got to actually explain how they oversimplified
It could be that in wealthy countries it is cheaper to consume meat due to factors like subsidization. Or, as I said, a thousand other factors.
It could be that in wealthy countries it is cheaper to consume meat due to factors like subsidization
You still pay for subsidies. You might not pay for it at the grocery store, but whenever the government is handing out money, that’s coming from the people, indirectly or not
What are you on about.
It sounds like your saying vegan sausages distract from building class consciousness. Surely not, because that sounds as dumb as a bag of bricks.
We’re all too broke to be spend 50-100% more on vegan food when we are stuck in a capitalist hellscape.
Eating is a need, eating ethically is a nice idea when rent/mortgage, utilities aren’t taking up 70-80% of people’s paychecks.
And ironically, THIS is the most bourgeois take. As if being vegan means buying beyond everything at Whole Foods 🙄
I have news for you about what kind of food makes up the bulk of the diet of the vast majority of the global working class
Yeah, this is such a bizarre position, so detached from the reality of what rice and beans, lentils, chick peas etc. cost.
I enjoy some vegan prepared products like steaks etc. But fried rice with veggies and cashews or tofu (or both of you’re feeling flush) is hardly a bank breaker.
This must be a cultural thing. Over here even most libs are trying to cut down on meat consumption.
It’s so frustrating. Such a massive blind spot for people who want to see themselves as progressive and compassionate.
Well good news my apparent leftist hating vegan friend, the best way to end animal suffering is destroying capitalism. So we don’t got to be opposed at all. Unless you care more about capitalism than you do about ending animal suffering of course.
People were eating meat before capitalism, and will eat meat after capitalism. Capitalism is not the problem here.
And I’m an Anarchist, so take your ‘leftist hating’ nonsense elsewhere.
Woof. Says capitalism isnt the problem while claiming to be an anarchist. Not sus at all…
Capitalism is not the core problem. Authority is.
Authority has always been the problem, from priests to kings to capitalists. After capitalism is gone, authority will still be the problem.
We do not want the end of the state because it means the end of capitalism, we want it because it means the end of authority and the start of empowerment.
This is an anarchist take.
And im sure you are gonna get rid of “authority” by leaving capitalism in place. Lol. You fake ass Anarcho-capitalists are so laughable.
Not once has keeping capitalism been said. Obviously capitalism would go as it is an authoritative system that relies on exploitation.
My point was to show you that anti-authority via the removal of the state is a core anarchist position.
You MLs always think the fight is only against capitalism, it goes beyond that.
