Apparently I’m now a shitlib for not buying into this disgusting tankie propaganda that it was all the Wests fault and Stalin had to ally with Hitler.
For a mod who loves to ban others for bad jacketing, they sure have no problem doing it to other anarchists.
The Ban:
The Context:
I love how all tankie defense boils down to “dO yOuR OwN ReSeArCh”
Where “your own research” means “Cowbee’s research.”
agree blindly with our threadbare propaganda or you’re a sheep!!!
What is cowbee? Google isn’t helping
An infamous tankie on Lemmy
A blatherer whose every response seems to involve trying to get someone to read a book that i’m starting to suspect they wrote, or are actually a fourteen year old who read their first thing that Spoke to them.
Cowbee did not write Blackshirts and Reds. Lol
Def the funniest part of the post
They are too exhausted by all their research to form proper arguments. 🙂↕️
I did my own research and it disagrees with tankies’ conclusions. Now what?
Then you’ve been brainwashed with western propaganda is they’re their usual go to
And also they’re Russophobic, Sinophobic, a total shitlib, and most of all, banned for Rule 1 and 2 (having a dissenting opinion)
I was raised and educated by people who grew up in USSR. If it was a paradise like tankies claim, those people would know.
Yeah they really don’t seem to realise that this is a thing in living memory. As in there are people who walk among them who were actually alive when the USSR existed.
Now you’re a banned shitlib!
Wish it was only tankies. But with them, there’s the additional implication that all aspects of Soviet history should be public knowledge, and if you do not know these things that alone makes you a … reactionary? capitalist bootlicker? Something like that.
My experience with these people is that they are extremely selectively informed about Soviet history. So ironically, they are actually quite ignorant on the topic, but they expect only their very specific cherry-picked facts and interpretations to be well understood by everyone, but none of the context or intervening events that might paint the USSR as anything other than the most benevolent organization in all of history.
That is very probably more true than what I wrote.
They’re too used to banning dissent from their online spaces that they don’t have a clue how to actually make an argument that holds any water or without resorting to bad faith tactics. Their arguments never hold up to scrutiny.
Tankies need their safe space for same reasons as Nazis.
Damn that sounds a lot like MAGA
Tankies and MAGA have more similarities than differences. The only real distinction is which authoritarians they worship.
Seems like a bad call to me too, PTB. I’ll reverse the ban.
Sorry but this is PTB. Criticizing Stalin and the USSR doesn’t make one a liberal. Wtf.
Just for context, won’t really engage further with this: I take 0 issue with people criticizing Stalin, the USSR etc. I’m not a Stalinist, ML nor MLM.
It was only for that specific insulting comment and claiming the USSR outright allied with fascist Germany. Literally every day that kept Germany from fully carrying out Generalplan Ost and Operation Barbarossa in general saved countless lives and allowed for proper industrialisation, later allowing a war effort at all.
I do not have any interest in engaging with people using that tone and straying from proper discussion (again, 0 problems with people trying to discuss things even if erroneous) and do not want them part of the com, it’s as shrimple as that.
I took no issue with OP of that specific thread.
not a tankie
cites cowbee
Pick one.
You banned me for being a shitlib, not for being ‘insulting’.
Because it read like a shitlib take ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Edit: and shitlibs usually are insulting too
Is “shitlib” not insulting?
But not you. You’d never be insulting to anyone.
The fact that you would post this and think it seems like a reasonable thing to say is really something.
Just want you to know how fucking weird you look outside of whatever bubble thinks this behavior is normal. It’s actually funny how far a powerless person will take their small taste of power and just show every piece of their ass.
I love it, you are a motley fool with admin tools.
So it’s okay to ban someone arbitrarily because you deem it a “shitlib take”? Yikes.
Repeating the same tired attacks on Soviet history is definitely one of the first go tos in the liberal debate playbook on anti communism.
It does seems like tankie did the same with everything regarding US and the current russia invasion, so yeah, i can understand that.
Such as
Such as your favorite admin while saying “russia invade ukraine” and accompanying it with what NATO did, shifting the blame of the current conflict to US.
PTB and on the basis of blatant misinfo as well. Disappointing
what does ptb mean?
Removed by mod
thank you, i will check out the sidebar
The sidebar lists the most common acronyms of this community.
thank you, i will check out the sidebar
PTB, Defending stalin for siding with nazis is crazy
Defending Stalin, period. Is crazy. He arguably killed more people than Hitler…
true, idk why ur getting downvoted
Because tankies don’t like it.
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Ah ha, but you forget that Stalin was busy murdering the last of the military officers that won the Revolution.
Linking to anything Cowbee said as “fact” is insane.
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Haha that name rang a bell that was one of the first people I ever blocked on Lemmy :)
I’m banned from there for publicly calling out one of the mods for covertly supporting the American right-wing. I deserve the ban, let’s be clear, I intentionally went out of my way to spam warnings across the community. That said, the moderation of that comm seems to be getting worse since I was last there.
PTB.
Edit: To be clear, this was the same moderator, who seems to be the head moderator, and in light of this, it now seems clear that they weren’t just supporting the American right-wing, but moreso supporting any and all totalitarianism.
Calling this one a PTB, it’s not a shitlib thing to not ask the USSR to have not temporarily partnered with Nazi Germany.
There was way more nuance to the situation. The moderator linked a summary of the false equivalence, as well as the extra context.
you showed up to be like: “fucked up, tankie defending Nazi alliance” as if history began and ended in 1939.
YDI, I can see how you ended up a ‘world news’ moderator though
On the topic of Cowbee’s summary, one of the articles linked there is by this person. The article concerns the question of whether Poland was invaded by the soviets in 1939 link. I was curious about the author’s argument, so I read it.
As it turns out, the crux of the author’s argument was that the Polish government exiled itself to Romania on September 17th, and so the soviets could occupy eastern Poland because Poland technically had no government at the time. After all, it couldn’t do anything from Romania, as it was a neutral country. EXCEPT the Polish government went to Romania AFTER the soviets invaded, and it was IN REACTION to the soviet invasion. So, because the author got the chronological order of events wrong, his argument kinda falls apart.
I don’t want to suggest that the author doesn’t know history, but I strongly suspect that he argues in bad faith by intentionally manipulating facts and omitting important information. I don’t think you should treat this author as an authority on the topic, especially since this isn’t his only outstanding claim that has been questioned by people versed in the field of Eastern European history. Among other things, he’s also a Holodomor denier.
Their order of events seems kind of absurd… What, the government of Poland voluntarily left Poland so that the Soviets could come in and temporarily take over? LOL ok.
100% guarantee that pointing this out somehow turns into “well actually your history book is wrong because it was written in English.” It’s a comedy of fallacies with them…
I’ve argued plenty against the tankie nonsense. They blatantly ignore every historical fact that disagrees with their narrative. Like, Leftist parties were quite literally torn apart over the perceived Soviet-Nazi alliance. But in their eyes, it was always clear that Stalin, total genius btw, was just masterfully playing Hitler and his stupid Nazis and was just buying time, which btw he had to do because the Allies were so evil they wouldn’t recognize that Hitler was a bigger threat to humanity than Stalin, which they obviously should have realised through the time machine in FDRs basement or something.
Recently that Yogthos fella did a similar thing, claiming the Baltic states voted in the referendum in favour of staying in the Soviet Union… in a referendum that didn’t ask that question, and wasn’t even held in the Baltic states. Funnily enough they never replied to that as they probably realised there was no arguing against that. Instead, they just downvote brigaded my comment.
tankie punks fuck off
I’m actually an anarchist, but you’re gonna use whatever pejorative makes you comfortable
You just like to say you are. You’re anti-ukraine and from russia. You put up more tankie posts and anti-dem posts than anything critical of the repubs.
You’re a tankie.
The reason I am often pissed at the democrats is due to how bad they are at actually opposing the republicans.
You’re just a ‘team blue’ maga type
Lol you clearly don’t know me, scan through my posts and see if you think I’m blue maga or whatever the fuck. I fall more on the social libertarian side than anything else. I’m very critical of the dems, but I’m not also a fucking idiot who thinks that the fascist shit pile we currently have is somehow the same as the dems by any means. The dems haven’t gone full fascist… it’s pretty clear they’d also not be destroying the US or harming it’s allies…and would be supporting Ukraine. Something you clearly are against…so to me you’re a tankie who sides with maga and fascist.
“Blue MAGA” is literally the singular best example of tankies parroting fascist rhetoric and is open evidence of their not so quiet collaboration. What a perfect parallel to the original topic of this thread!
“I’m not racist because Islam isn’t a race”
Yeah you’re pretty much what I would categorize as blue maga, chauvinist, racist, but team red ‘disgusts’ you. Clearly team blue would be managing the empire better so that it could stay ‘great’
You seem to have an issue with anarchists too:
Yea that makes me racists because I’m not a hamas supporter while also not supporting Israel? Lol try harder.
Islam is a violent religion that doesn’t support LGBTQ+ rights or womens rights…those are facts.
You’re just a ‘team blue’ maga type
If I search for “maga house”, “maga car”, “maga outfit”, I’m going to get some very specific images as a result.
Please show me an example of this “blue maga” in image form.
I hate to be defending a .ml user, and Diva of all people, but you asked so here you go:
All of this is going to get an anti-trans Democrat like Gavin Newsom elected to office. This is what people mean when they say ‘Blue MAGA’. It follows the exact same “cult of personality” populist playbook as MAGA.
I would have to very much disagree that this is equivalent to:
I’m not a party line supporter by any stretch, but equating what you posted against… This nonsense… is, at best, misleading.
More accurately though, its outright disinformation to encourage people to believe an equivalence in the cult behavior that just doesnt exist.
I will happily change my mind when I see something remotely similar to the randomly selected images that come up immediately in the results that I just posted.
Until then, “blue maga” is just nonsense.
I see the entirety of your political knowledge is America
the person I’m replying to said that I was a tankie for being insufficiently critical of Republicans, go talk to them if you have an issue with people being US-centric
ok tankie
Please move to russia or NK. You tankies enjoying western civ while shouting down at how evil we are, is rich.
The USSR killed millions even after the war, it was a shit place with dictators leading it. They were no better than the nazis. Stop rewriting history.
Just because we dunk on tankies here doesn’t mean we approve of white… oops, sorry, I meant to say “western” - civilisation.
Okay?
Western civ like it or not has pulled more people out of poverty than any other civ in human history. It’s hella flawed and it requires guidance to grow and get better but that’s the whole damn point of a civilization.
You, anarchist, seem to think societies are going to magically swap over to hippie communities and everyone will share everything and be happy to not work ever again. It’s like you assume a home can be built without a foundation. I honestly don’t understand how it’s popular to people over the age of 18.
Western civ like it or not
Yeah, all the shantytowns around these parts with sewage floating through the streets attests to that wonderful statement of yours.
get better but that’s the whole damn point of a civilization.
Your precious white… oops, sorry, meant to say “western” again… civilisation has had hundreds of years to stop being a laboratory for horror and deprivation - at this point, it’s perfectly clear that all this is the point.
It’s like you assume a home can be built without a foundation
Not like you, huh? With your fancy foundation built on millions of corpses?
I honestly don’t understand how it’s popular to people over the age of 18.
Because not everybody over the age of 18 automatically degenerates into a spineless bootlicker - must be news to you, huh?
Every society has its horrors. People suck and people who don’t usually aren’t gravitated towards power.
Please explain how anarchist would magically make those who want to lead for power less likely to do so?
Every society has its horrors.
Not a valid defence - neither does it distract from your ludicrously false statements.
Please explain
What makes you think anyone here owes a colonialism apologist any kind of explanation?
Lol yea that’s the excuse. No one owes our little bullshit plan for society an explanation. Move somewhere else please, just leave Western society since it’s sooooo bad.
Someone tell Japan they’re white now.
Hey, don’t slam it… Jewish people became “white enough” for the west as soon as they started slaughtering brown people - which proves that anyone with enough genocidal intent can reach those lofty heights!
When I first registered for the Lemmiverse (not too long ago) I almost chose lemmy.ml but somehow Mali did not seem the best fit for me.
I’m here because I figured it would be the fastest to deploy updates to the software
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Because it’s the server run by the developers?
Before 1941 everyone collaborated, appeased, or worked with the Nazis in some form. And then 1941 happened and the Holocaust.
Rather than this being a lesson for future generations of why Nazis cannot be collaborated, appeased, or worked with: it seems as though this is some ace up the sleeve for catching modern debatelords for apparently being inconsistent.
Generally I think if you’re using terms like ‘shitlib’ you’re losing ground, and of there’s someone saying ‘tankie’ there is unlikely any common ground to be found. Accurate or no, the first one to use either term is usually in the wrong, imo.
Before 1941? I assume you mean before 1939?
I don’t think there’s any equivalence in saying “if you invade Poland we are going to declare war on you” and then doing so (as France and Britain did) and literally teaming up with Hitler to invade Poland (as the Soviet Union did).
Appeasement was a weak strategy but the idea was less that war needed to be avoided at all costs and more that war with Hitler was inevitable but western Europe needed to buy a few months to try to catch up in rearmament. They were just a few months away from fighting the battle of Britain with biplanes.
1941 was when Germany invaded the USSR (and Japan attacked the USA), which I was marking as the last point in which any major/global power remained diplomatic, even neutral, with the Nazis.
Wild timeline take dude.
Just remember, whenever you read, “social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism,” you are reading part of the justification for why the USSR should sign a treaty with Nazi Germany. The actual justifications for this are complicated, I think it is actually not completely straightforward such as “Nazis bad, treaty with Nazis make USSR fascist.” However that is exactly the sort of campist and obscurative reasoning that Stalin tries to make. The argument was not “the USSR is still critically underdeveloped next to the most industrially advanced country in Europe, and we need some time to industrialize before we can oppose European fascism.” It was, “The social democrats in Europe are worse than Nazis, so the Nazis need time to crush their moderate wing.”
You can kind of understand the Real Politic of Stalin. It’s the same justification for the endless purges of his political enemies. I think that the historical basis for authoritarianism extends beyond the “great man.” But the guy was probably the greatest historical revisionist of the last 150 years. Both his enemy Leon Trotsky and Trotsky’s one-time secretary Reya Dunayevskaya meticulously documented how Stalin had history literally rewritten to make him seem like a more revolutionary figure than he was.
I recognize that Trotsky doesn’t have a good rapport with anarchists, nor should he, after 1921. But If any leftist tradition “weighs like a nightmare on the minds of the living,” it is the legacy Stalinism.
PTB!
PTB. Would be nice to have the ability to vote ban them.
What’s wrong about having a wartime ally and then declaring war on them?
I do that all the time in Total War. It’s not a big problem if you have the armies to back up your chaotic strategies and if they complain, just wipe them out.
