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People say it’s a publicity stunt. Well so what. Greta knows if she goes, cameras and reporters will follow. It’s the same thing Lady Diana did when traveling to 3rd world nations…she knew that she alone wouldn’t make a difference, but the cameras and reporters that follow her would.
Greta is doing what most of us only discuss…helping. and if she helps by keeping Isreal’s hypocrisy in the news, then she wins.
Hard to say its a publicity stunt when it isn’t the first time she’s doing it.
They one who says that are troll because it is not a Publicity stunt when you are going to the door steps of a fascist military organization that have no regards of any human life “including their own” and will not hesitate shooting you down or imprisoned you for unknown time.
People say it’s a publicity stunt.
Shortly before the IDF bombs another Reuters photojournalist team, sure.
and if she helps by keeping Isreal’s hypocrisy in the news, then she wins.
If she really wanted to help, she’d be campaigning for Kamala Harris for President.
That’s what I’m told Palestinians actually want.
Say /s right now
Sarcasm died the day that damned shorthand was invented.
Contextually, almost no one on this site assumes sarcasm first.
Their loss
Well she did win so
Is this a shitpost? She’s not even from the USA why would she be involved with campaigning for the democrats and either way if you think a democrat president would stop helping Israel then you must have missed all the previous presidents who supported Iseral.
She’s a Swedish citizen. Are you suggesting that Kamala needs to become the prime minister of Sweden?
palestine can free themselves by making peace with israel
Ah shit here we go again. What’s ironic is that the Zionazis could get an easy PR win by letting them in to distribute aid but that would interfere with their long term extermination goals.
it would also interfere with their immediate goal of openly being cartoonishly evil.
Complete with lightning strike whenever they make a proclamation?
Zionazis could get an easy PR win
In liberal corners of the United States and Europe, maybe. But in Israel this would be viewed as a humiliation and a defeat.
An easy PR win by letting them enter a war zone? You can only lose by doing that. For an easy PR win, they could just let the trucks enter Gaza.
I give it a 30% chance that Israel military kills them and blames Hamas, a 60% chance that Hamas kills them and blames it on Israel… And a 10% chance of surviving…
“War zone” is an interesting thing to call the world’s largest death camp.
“60% chance Hamas kills them” lol sure, whatever islamaphobic fantasies get you off pal.
Calling me islamophobic because I’m not a fan of Hamas or “Islamic Dschihad” is as intelligent as calling someone antisemitic because they criticize the Israel government…
Oh no you misunderstand. Despite the IDF having an extremely larger kill count, not to mention a proclivity to kill aid workers and even their own citizens through the hannibal directive, you still stated Hamas was more likely to kill Greta. Despite the fact Hamas does not have a history of killing aid workers or Pro-Palestinian activists (that would be counter intuitive as the elected party of Gaza). The only reason you would rate them higher is because you, like most in the West have been propagandized to demonize Muslims, especially ones who take up arms to defend from invaders. So yeah, you’re islamophobic and should kindly fuck off.
The only reason you would rate them higher is because you, like most in the West have been propagandized to demonize Muslims
Wow… I’m talking about Hamas terrorists and do not even mention a religion, but your brain seems to really really really want to connect that to regular Muslims… Why??? Can we please stop acting like Hamas/Islamic Dschihad and average Muslims are the same??? Please??? Doing that seems to actually be islamophobic…
especially ones who take up arms to defend from invaders
If we are talking about Hamas, we are talking about those how also kind of caused the invasion… And yes, I know, the conflict did not start 2 years ago. It kind of started with the Balfour Declaration.
“They caused the invasion but also this started with the Balfour Declaration” ok so you’re just full of shit. You know damn well that Israel has been the aggressor since the beginning and you still blame Hamas for this genocide. That “terrorist organization” along with the other Axis of Resistance “terrorists” are the only ones actually fighting the IOF. But sure, pin the blame on Muslims defending their country instead of the terrorist state of Israel that has been doing ethnic cleansing since its very founding.
They caused the invasion but also this started with the Balfour Declaration
Yes, it’s more complicated than you seem to understand.
There was a recent cause for the current escalation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_7_attacks
But the whole conflict lasts longer.
If you want, I could ask ChatGPT to simplify that for you.
I give it a 30% chance that Israel military kills them and blames Hamas, a 60% chance that Hamas kills them and blames it on Israel… And a 10% chance of surviving…
They’ve been doing this May and I don’t think anyone has died/gone “missing” in the Flotillas yet. Israel doesn’t want the PR win, they usually use the opportunity of the news media’s attention being turned to the Flotillas to launch some extra drone strikes in Gaza. Murdering Palestinians is much more important to them.
An easy PR win is letting the trucks in.
Letting opposing, famous people (who would of course also take and share pictures from the war reality) enter the war zone without anyone getting hurt or killed by anyone else (with Israel military, Hamas and Islamic Dschihad involved) is probably the most complicated PR win ever…
Apart from that, it of course lets the question come up “Why is Greta allowed to enter, but not actual help organizations?”. And it seems that they don’t want such a precedent, because otherwise, they could easily allow the trucks to pass.
Oh no, I 100% agree with everything you’ve said here.
My point was 1) the flotillas have been happening for a few months now and has gotten more people sympathetic to the situation (Greta for example live-streamed being boarded and captured by the IDF in…June I think?) and 2) The IDF don’t WANT the easy PR win. They want Gaza empty.
This is the third time she’s done this but for some reason this time she only has a 10% chance of survival?
If they let her in… She never went in.
I thought, that was kind of obvious…
You can only lose by doing that.
You’re not wrong. As soon as they let in one group of foreign aid workers, others follow. And then you run the risk of people ending the engineered famine.
Sort of defeats the point of doing a genocide if outsiders can just feed the people you’re trying to starve to death.
a 60% chance that Hamas kills them
I swear to God, the average Zionist’s understanding of a Palestinian is somewhere between Ayatollah Khomemi and The Terminator.
They’ve got no food, but they still have anti-ship missiles?
I think, the average view on a starving Palestinian and a proud member of Hamas or Islamic Dschihad differs. And above, I talked about “Hamas”, not about random people suffering in Gaza.
I talked about “Hamas”, not about random people
There is no difference between the two in the eyes of the Lavender AI.
If you’re baited into opposing “Hamas”, it is only a matter of time before you’re defending an airstrike on a hospital or the IDF gang rape of a general surgeon.
If you’re baited into opposing “Hamas”
I kind of got baited into opposing Hamas by… Let me check… Ahm… by Hamas!
That does not mean that I’m not also opposing Netanyahu and his far right assholes.
Both sides have terrible governments.
Both sides
Where is the Palestinian government in Gaza? Name one living state official in the territory.
I don’t exactly understand the question. Hamas is the de facto government since 2007.
If you want to, we can use a different word like “leaders” or “rulers” or “dictators” or “those in power”, if the word “government” does fit…
Or do you want to question whether Hamas still holds the power in Gaza?
Killer robots don’t need to eat.
I actually wonder why they haven’t blocked telecom coming in and out. Everyone would still kinda know they’re doing a genocide, but it would be harder to visually cover, and they might be able to hide details.
Doesn’t really matter when anyone can just go on Google Maps and see nearly every single building in Gaza has been destroyed
Pretty impressive that they had Hamas in each of these buildings, eh?
Obligatory fuck Israel.
Oh, it matters. You think most people are going to look on Google Maps themselves?
Quick, gut-punching visuals and stupid soundbites are the name of the game in public opinion. Even if news agencies were to show this map, it’s way more abstract and remote. The impact wouldn’t be the same as a starving, swollen baby.
The same thing will happen as last time. Gaza needs food though.
It’s 50 ships this time
blockade stops 50 ships just as easily, these are not blockade running ships.
That makes a bigger headline, and shows more and more people care about the Palestinian people.
Is there a downside here? Why are people upset by this concept?
Just because powerful bullies are unlikely to lose, doesn’t mean it’s not worth defying them.
everyone knows these ships arnt getting through, this is just a waste of supplies begging for attention.
You think that means one or two might slip through?
European powers ignoring high sea piracy in the Mediterranean and pretending it’s not there.
Four Italian politicians are on one of the ships this time. The secretary of the main Italian opposition asked the government to take a stand about their safety. Dock workers in Genoa said that if something happens to the ships they will bring down logistics and shipping throughout Europe.
Oh boy! I’m prepared before reading the comments this time around!
They are right about the haircut though.
That being said, genocide through purposeful mass starvation is quite possibly the most heinous crime that exists. God bless anyone does anything at all to fight against it
I actually like it, she wears it well.
Who? What did they say about it
free Palestine from the river to the sea ♥️🖤💚🤍
I don’t get the criticism. They either get the food through or the press following her is going to film the Israeli navy blocking the food from entering the shore.
There has never been any hope that they’d get the food through. This is all about showing people that Israel are willing to arrest and deport them.
My main critisism is that it isn’t going to change anything because:
- No country is going to allow people who aren’t refugees to illegally enter their territory like this. Israel arresting these people and deporting them isn’t new. So Israel doing something every other country would do is a non-story.
- This isn’t going to convince anyone who has agreed with Israel’s action up to this point because, they already tried it before, and denying aid to palestinians is not their worst crime. Anyone who could be swayed by this action, was swayed more than a year ago, when it was crystal clear Israel was purposely murdering civillians.
So to me, this comes off as an attempt to get media attention, with a happening that does nothing to help the people they really want to help, changing no ones mind, and all without actually being anything but a slight inconvenience to Israel, making their coastguards take a slight detour to arrest a few people.
Sure, it’s more than I’ve done, and more than I care to do, and I’m sure a lot of people are going to be very angry, because I don’t think this will matter in the slightest. I’m sympathetic to their course, but this just reeks too much of a bunch of privilaged kids, wanting to make a name for themselves, so they load a boat up with food, alcohol and weed, have a bunch of fun on the way, get sent home when they reach their destination, and hope they get to talk to the media.
The flotilla is not sailing to Israeli territory. They are sailing to Gaza, which is under an illegal military occupation.
Not even the Israeli government claims Gaza as Israeli territory (yet). The government is trying to ethnically cleanse the Gaza strip so they can flood it with settlements, establishing facts on the ground for an eventual annexation.
That’s why the flotilla is trying to bring food and medical aid to Gaza.
Sure, they don’t see it as their territory, they see it as their soon-to-be territory.
Ahh so this is that Greta van Fleet I been hearing about.
As someone living in Gaza, seeing this support from around the world truly gives us hope. Thank you
Sending well wishes and hoping you are safe.
post pic or fake
I don’t understand why they are publicizing this. Wouldn’t it be easier to ‘slip by’ under cover of night or whatever smuggler-esque strategies there are?
The point isn’t to get supplies to Gaza, it’s to put eyeballs on the fact that Israel is preventing supplies from getting into Gaza.
So alleviating their suffering isn’t the objective, rather to point out that they are suffering?
I think it’s more that one delivery is a drop in the bucket while achieving a constant stream of deliveries (e.g. the public puts enough pressure on their respective governments) could meaningfully address the problem
The objective is to draw attention to the famine that Israel is causing by publicising how Israel blocks the entry of aid with a very tangible example.
They’re going to get stopped either way. A flotilla of 27 civilian ships isn’t sneaking past one of the most advanced, heavily armed navies in the world, no matter how “sneaky” they try to be.
At least this way they’re on record for stopping the delivery.
if they try to sneak for sure they are getting killed
They just don’t expect to be allowed through. If they are, great! Then they’d do this again with an even bigger flotilla, and keep helping people as long as they’re allowed to.
However, what they expect to happen is that they’ll be stopped. So they’re making sure they’re positioned to take full advantage of that, too.
I understand it better now, clearly there are others that didn’t like my question. I guess there are ‘stupid’ questions to ask.
But regardless, the take for me is that they are taking more a ‘martyrdom’ sort of approach, which I completely respect.
To point out its purposeful starvation. Israel claims they don’t have to,provide aid, it’s a war. This points out the hypocrisy that Israel are preventing peaceful aid. Israel are using hunger and famine as a weapon of war, to eliminate a people. Aka genocide and war crimes,
Everybody know that israel claims are BS. All leaders now that the occupying force has the obligation to provide necessities to the occupied
Yer they still receive support and they still block aid. This is to make it clear to those that don’t know, or that think Israel is within its rights to do so.
The downside to the plan failing is that they alleviate suffering.
By… Increasing visibility and pressuring the other governments to act?
Or deliver the Aid. Win Win. (Doesn’t seem like the right word, but nevermind.)
I feel like in an alternate world, the mexican cartels find their humanity and use their drug subs to deliver aid would be a great story
.ml moment
So alleviating their suffering isn’t the objective
I’m surprised a
.mlaccount is saying this.Still, I’m curious if they have a real distribution plan should they make it through. I don’t imaging desperate people are going to make an orderly line, nor that the IDF will just watch it happen.
While some people defend the Russian invasion of Ukraine in ML, I have never seen comments as disturbing as those on .world that defend Israel unconditionally and blame Hamas for the genocide. Some even go so far as to claim that Palestinians do not exist, and that the entire land belongs to Jews because God supposedly gave it to them, or based on other stupid ancestral arguments.
Im on Lemmy a fair amount, but I’ve not seen that on
.world. Still wouldn’t surprise me given its one of the biggest instance.Good ole nakba denial
I’ve seen this kind of stereotyping around - what’s this about different attributes associated with different Lemmy domains? I just made a random one.
Tankie instance, but more relevant one that has a strong dislike of pragmatism when discussing leftist issues.
It’s a tankie instance?? I just saw that the description was lemmy.ml, I took it as to mean the most ‘generic’ one. (Given that it is ‘lemmy’) Where was this extra description?
Also I thought everyone was free to just choose whichever and there was no difference in the kind of accessibility or privilege to choosing one over another?
The
.mlstands for Marxist Leninist. Not really, but that’s how they use it. It is a generic instance, but it does have that reputation.I love their passion for issues, but their stubborn unpractical approach to solutions is frustrating.
it’s a illegal blockage, if they tried to do it in secret it would 100% fail, it’s a humanitarian aid flotilla, not a military stealth ship.
if anything the more public eyes on this the better.
Because it is a publicity stunt.
“Publicity stunt” is just a pejorative description of activism, in this case.
If that’s how you want to interpret it, sure.
Feel free to put forward an alternative view
Sure:
“Publicity stunt” is just an objectively accurate description of activism, in this case.
If Israel does not let them through like last time then boom we have publicity of Israel actively denying food to Palestinians.
If Israel does let them through then they get to give aid to people in need.
So it’s either an aid mission or publicity stunt depending on what Israel decides to do.
Right, just that one of these options is highly more likely than the other. And everybody involved knows it.
If they don’t, Israel could just say they didn’t know and just blow them up.
It seems like a gamble that both sides are doing - ‘blockade runners’ going to initiate an internationally effective response after they are illegally kidnapped, and that Israel is betting that no one can find the balls to do anything.
because they dont want to get there they want the headlines when they are turned away
That’s not true necessarily. Of course they are highlighting the cruelty of the blockade, but I’m sure they’d be very happy to get in and see what’s happening—as well as distribute some food
yet they wont and they know that they wont. why not deliver food to the Ukrainian front? because they might actually get there.
Because people dying from starvation in Gaza?? What kind of logic is this!?
yet they send a flotilla of food they will be eating from into a blockade that will just take the food and send it on anyways. this is twitter theatre.
What in the world kind of thinking is this? Yeah, there’s a war going on and Russia is targeting civilian centers and are clearly the invading aggressor, but that is not on the same level as the full blown genocide happening in Gaza/West Bank. The fact that they could easily get into Ukraine and deliver food…means they don’t have to. What.
There is an actual famine happening in Gaza. Starvation is being used as a weapon of war and attrition against the entire civilian population. There are only upsides to them trying this: either aid gets through and some people survive a little longer, or it doesn’t, and it proves to the entire world—that happens to be sitting on their hands over the genocide—that this is real and needs way more attention and pressure. What don’t you understand about that?
news flash: they wont be getting into Gaza at all. so they could help people, but choose not to. this is theatre.
It’s attempting to break an illegal and genocidal blockade of necessary survival items. The fact that the blockade exists means they should respect it?
Look what they’ve already done: started thousands of conversations about it. It’s already mountains more than you or I have ever done to help the people of Gaza. Your opinion is ridiculous. But it also shows how necessary these actions are.
No, it won’t be easier. Israel has all the tools to intercept them
Because terrorism is the point
“Terrorism is when you attempt to deliver food to starving children.”
So many zionists here
This is terrorism? Explain.
Please enlighten us how this is terrorism?
yes i would like to know how this is terrorism as well
Lmao posting this from the Canada instance is hilarous considering the PM has put out a statement denouncing the Knesset and it’s intention to recognize a Palestinian State. Guess Carney’s a terrorist.
This is a good thing, don’t get me wrong, but reading this is exhausting. Framing it as Israel “failing to prevent a humanitarian disaster” rather than actively committing genocide is such weasely bullshit.
You’re not wrong, but considering how full throated Trudeau was in his support for Israel, and all of the Islamophobic+anti-Semetic rhetoric in Toronto and Montreal while those cities are hosting meetings for land developers wanting to invest in the Gaza strip, I will take what I can get.
Removed by mod
why is it called a floatilla
I’m mobile and can’t verify anything, but if you trust a goggle AI Overview then here you go.
The word “flotilla” originates from the Spanish word flotilla, a diminutive form of flota meaning “fleet”. This, in turn, came from Old French floter and ultimately Germanic roots, like Old Norse floti (“raft, fleet”) and Old English flota (“ship” or “fleet”), which are ancestors of the English word “float”. The English term “flotilla” was adopted in 1711 and refers to a small fleet, especially of small naval vessels like destroyers or submarines. Here’s a breakdown of the word’s origin: Spanish: Flotilla (diminutive of flota, meaning “fleet”). Old French: Floter (“to float, set afloat”). Germanic: Old Norse floti (“raft, fleet”) and Old English flota (“ship, fleet”). Indo-European: Traced back to the root pleu- (“to flow”). The English word “flotilla” was first recorded in 1711.
Ahh dang! So close. I guessed 16th century.
Hey you were closer than me, I would have guessed closer to Roman times since it hits me as a Latin origin.
Not trying to be a smart ass but what do u suggest it’s be called? A convoy? Maybe a fleet?
Boat. It’s a fucking boat.
Haaa…there’s MANY boats mate. Not sure how you missed that. Dozens. What would you call a group of boats? I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t call it a boat of boats.
What would you call a group of boats?
I’m being told by the IDF that a group of boats carrying food and medical aid is called a “publicity stunt”.
I’m also being told it’s Hamas.
Yea original comment is funny. Definition of flotilla is a group of boats with a purpose. Not sure what else they would be calling it.
Es flutas mi amigo.
I guess it’s enough boats to make a floating villa? There’s something in there that I’m sure a 16th century language historian could figure out.
deleted by creator
Because she floats.
I have to say I don’t get this. They keep trying again and again but to what end. There’s no way this will change anything. The navy will intercept them, maybe kill some people in the process, dump the food and sent them back home. It all feels like a huge waste of manpower, resources and time.
But by this point I’m wondering if Greta feels like she’s achieving much with the make noise strategy. I feel like that could work in a world that cares which ours increasingly is not that. She could attain more by going into politics for example. But dying in the sea on her way to a brick wall would be a huge loss that I can’t follow the logic of.
My guess is it’s a form of highly visible and publicized protest.
The fact that you now know about this event and who is involved and talking about it here proves they have been successful.
They don’t really care if the food arrives or not, they just want you to pay attention to their humanitarian efforts and how it’s being diverted.
Right but my point is that they already did this and nothing changed. Everyone who cares to know knows already and everyone else doesn’t care. Actions speak louder than words and the world has already spoken even if any decent person is against it, this won’t change anything anymore.
Other than muscleing past the Israeli military blockade of Gaza, what else do you suggest should be done?
just by saying they’re going, they’ve made israel state publicly that they will be treated like terrorists when caught. if israel does treat non-violent nationals of “allied” countries like that, they’ve officially burned quite a few bridges.
Yeah, if the bully keeps beating your friends up, and they are way stronger… Why try to stop them?
Politics is a great idea. Maybe if she was a Minister in her home country of Sweden she could draft a formal letter of disapproval! That works really well for the US Democrats.
It’s best to not make any figurative or literal waves. Best to stay in one’s lane.
As I said in another comment there is politics at EU level and my argument is not against making waves, it’s about taking the conservation to where it hurts more for the politicians that don’t act. Making waves is very much a viable option since it’s been a recent staple of some politicians.
It makes it undeniably obvious that the point is genocide. It points out Israel’s blatant lies in a way that no breathing human can deny.
Again this is my opinion, everyone who cares about it already knows beyond a shadow of a doubt what this is, everyone else will continue to attempt confusion and deny it until theres no living resident in Gaza. I disagree that this particular action would change anything in terms of anyone’s perception on the lies.
It all feels like a huge waste of manpower, resources and time.
Go ahead and explain to us a better way
I already did in broad terms. I would target politics, start a party or movement, grab power, votes and influence, take the helm and actually enact policy and put pressure where it hurts. Even this flotilla would make a lot more sense if it would be a marketing stunt to gain something else, but it really does seem to be limited to exposure which is not enough, everyone already knows the tragedy that is happening and yet those who can actually decide have said time and time again we can all get fucked.
Politics where? The United States? Israel? Who has the power to do anything at all about this?
She’d have to literally become the President of the United States, which is literally impossible since she was born in Sweden.
There are parties and ministers and multiple institutions at european union level that drive conversations and can put a lot more pressure on the rest of the world than any single private individual.
There’s politics and establishment politics.
What Greta is doing is a political act, it raises global awareness, which puts pressure on politicians to act or risk losing their offices to folks who will.
I guess the root issue with this is that they don’t act and if they lose their office to someone else those people also don’t act, at least not in the interest of the people. So we would need someone who actually acts instead of just talks and promises and I feel like Greta would be one of those people.
Don’t get me wrong I would love to see her run for office. I think it would need to be something with authority though to do as much good as she is now.
Like Prime Minister or whatever they call the top position in her country.
Even if she didn’t win, she could move the needle a lot.
But that’s just one country, what she’s doing now moves the hearts and minds of folks globally.
I already did in broad terms. I would target politics, start a party or movement, grab power, votes and influence, take the helm and actually enact policy and put pressure where it hurts.
These activists must be really stupid to put their life at risk when they can simply win elections, grab power and change policies…
She’s gonna be thrown in an Israeli jail this time.
She was in Norway like a week ago. Woman’s busy.
She would be better of protesting in Saudi Arabia or stopping some russian shadow fleet ships before supplying the Russian war machine.
We got the Temu version of a radical protestant instead.
Are the words you wrote supposed to be coherent?
???
Why would that be better? I’m interested to hear how you think that would be more effective and within her “power”.
I’ll say it. Gretta is a pawn in a fake game of chess
- Pawn are very important piece in chess, most of the time you lose one you lose the game.
- Pawn becomes any other piece when it reach its destination including a Queen.
- that is a lame comment that makes no sense.
Pawns are the first pieces to be sacrificed in a game of chess. How deep did you go to pull out this comment?
Maybe the first to loose a pawn in game are statisticaly more prone to loosing. But that’s will be Tue reason of being the worse players not that the piece in itself is so important.
I’ll say it
Ok, but you shouldn’t
We all are. And if you aren’t they make you suffer.
