Especially, whem taking into the account of a possible change of regime in their new country that coulds result in deportation back to their former country. Is this a common fear?
I was born in Mainland China, and I immigrated to the USA as a child, and I have Derivative US Citizenship.
Now the US’s own Autocratization is bringing up a lot of fears.
For one, of couse I could end up in a concentration camp, similar to what happened to Japanese Americans during WW2.
But also, I could lose citizenship due to the current administration’s hostility and xenophobia, and end up getting deported.
And I fucking despise the CCP, since they fucking tried to kill me before I was even born (long story short: One Child Policy; I was the second child, they tried to locate my mother when she had the second pregnancy, they didn’t find her so here I am). I have talked so much shit about the CCP while in the US, IRL and online, if the CCP has a competent intelligence agency (which they do), then they already know that I’m a dissident and my life would be miserable if I get deported to China.
So there is few possibilities, if I lose citizenship status.
I could end up stateless. Which is terrible.
I could end up in China. Which is absolutely horrifying.
Or I could end up in Guantanamo, or some other country trump has negotiated with to take deportees, which is just… fucking the worse possible timeline.
I mean, just look at recent news. Anyone deemed “pro-hamas” would get deported.
Honestly, these thoughts is why I have never really attended a protest in the US. I know Lemmy would call me a coward, and I probably am a coward. But I just never feel safe anywhere. You know the saying “when in rome, do as roman do”. So yea, I just never feel like I’m really I can speak out against the injustice in the US, I know the “First Amendment” and all that, but doesn’t mean much when the president actively disrespects the constitution.
I don’t even know if shitposting on Lemmy is safe either, but hopefully this is not on the US government’s top of the list.
So yea, the autocrats won. They’ve already made me too scared to dissent (other than online shitposts that will do absolutely nothing).
(I don’t meet any eligibility to immigrate to the EU, so not an option either)
I haven’t emigrated yet, but every time I leave my country by travelling, I feel terrified that somehow I’m being watched or someone will report on me. So I stay on my best behavior, and not break any religious laws.
Honestly, even if I leave (which I’m planning to) I don’t think I can ever feel or be safe. The gulf monarchies have boundless reach, and are practically omnipotent.
Maybe it’s just paranoia, maybe they’re not keeping a close eye on me. But I’m still afraid of messing up and losing my life.
They could assassinate you on foreign soil, and they have (Khashoggi comes to mind, any others I should be aware of?)
But how common is it unless you’re a major regime critic?
Sadly yes.
It’s actually worse than assassination for dissidents inside the country, it’s flat out public beheading.
But how common is it unless you’re a major regime critic?
Still common. Happened to someone i am vaguely related to, they tweeted to their [less than 10 followers] just criticism of the monarchy, and “disappeared”. Nobody ever saw them again. Later i saw a news article, of someone being executed and fitting their exact description. Fuck my life.
All they need is your real name and your comments, and it’s over.
Another Arab here! The Saudi wahabi regime is the worst thing to happen to the middle east. Almost all events happening here always ends up going back to western interference, even the rise of ahl saud leading to the creation of Saudi Arabia.
Edit: some added links for anyone willing to take a dive down that rabbit hole
Absolutely. The british and french are absolutely to blame. They destroyed the entire middle east, and made us all suffer for their own convenience. Also, the Sykes-picot agreement.
(now there are four other arabs than me that i know on lemmy :DDD)
You’d better not be sending me down a labyrinthian rabbit-hole. I’m sure just one article about the Sykes-Picot Agreement can’t hurt…
People have gotten bored of me in the past for how frequently I bring up Sykes-Picot lol
Everyone says “We get it! It happened! Get over it!” But it’s hard to get over it when it’s still being felt to this day
The fact that someone else is bringing it up this time makes me feel REAL GOOD
I hate myself for being pedantic, but: You haven’t emigrated yet. Immigration is coming, emigration is leaving.
I’m guessing you’re from Iran? The only good thing I can really say is that they’re as afraid of you as you are of them. But they are fucking terrifying, and as you well know you’re right to be careful. I can’t believe the stuff we seemingly choose to turn a blind eye to coming from foreign authoritarian regimes on European soil.
TIL, thanks.
Nope, not iranian - i’m from the arabian peninsula, a specific monarchy in particular. I doubt that they’re terrified of me lol, this is a losing game, no matter what.
the stuff we seemingly choose to turn a blind eye to coming from foreign authoritarian regimes on European soil.
So you’ve noticed… The west only cares about anti-fascism and anti-imperialism when it threatens them. But it’s completely fine if millions of third worlders have to suffer under both, since cheap oil :(
Ah, well, fuck. Then I don’t really have a positive spin on it.
Maybe the US crashing and burning will at least limit US influence on the Arab world, opening at least a slight hope for improvements in the region in the long run. It’s a weird world - yesterday it was Europe and the US against the rest, today Europe stands alone and Russia is paralysed in Syria. Maybe tomorrow we’ll see genuine alliances between Europe and countries in the Arab world that are not entirely built around exploitation and sucking up to dictators.
Maybe. But I’m not holding my breath.
I’d never hold my breath on this unfortunately. Europe is still not sinless, they have blood on their hands, funding both the sudanese and gazan genocide. And they have yet to pay reparations for the devastating damages of colonialism/imperialism, which has directly caused the death and suffering of millions.
The world is unfair, but no one cares about us.
If we want to talk about why European countries have blood on their hand we could keep going all day.
I’d push back a little against the notion that nobody cares. You don’t have many (any?) political allies who are willing to stand up against dictatorships and let go of their cheap oil supplies, but you do have people and organizations who care.
The International Criminal Court did, among other things, issue an arrest warrant on Netanyahu. I think we have managed to establish international law, but not yet international justice. As a result it’s easy to give up and consider it all to be false promises and lies, and to a degree that’s not entirely wrong. But I nevertheless believe that current-day international law is the greatest achievement we have made since the second world war, and establishing international law is the fundamental first step towards international justice.
I have a lot of friends working for various international organizations, and while it’s one hell of an uphill battle, I can assure you that there are people out there working tirelessly to try to make a change. And despite everything, most European countries are still supportive of the ICC and in favour of establishing an international legal order.
If we want to be hopeful about Europe, it has to be judged by it’s commitment to that promise, and not by the corrupt, narcissistic, or plain moronic leaders who are way too frequently put in charge.
Thanks. It feels like every interaction with europeans i have about this is “well these countries are necessary for us! They’re strategic allies and better than XYZ (usually russia or china)” while ignoring the people who have to suffer the consequences. Out of sight, out of mind…
It’s refreshing to hear at least some people care about us.
We have all these ideas about universal human rights, and we are trying to wish them into existence. So we teach them to children as if they are something they should believe already exists, not as it’s an ideal we are working towards.
I think the idea is that it will make people more protective of human rights, but the flip side is that people seem very reluctant to see the cracks in the fiction they have been sold. And then when/if they realize the state of the world they often become jaded, acting as if the realization that it’s all a fake construct is somehow the greatest insight on earth.
And then, if they’re good people, they start working to make the fiction just a little bit more real.
Yes, especially China, they have “secret police stations” around the world, lot in Canada, where they track and harass Chinese citizens who have immigrated to Canada. It is well documented.
In some ways yeah. My country pivoted from semi-dictatorship to dictatorship to democracy to democracy and finally back to dictatorship. I was born under a dictatorship and for the first 21 years of my life, there was only one president, a crazy murderous dictator.
I just emigrated to the US so it’s crazy seeing the same stuff I run from all over again. My county’s president is aligned with the current US right wing policies, so yeah, though minute, I’m a legit target, so I do not talk about my country’s politics or government.
Sorry i don’t have much to add, but if i had to guess, that country is egypt?
No. But I would never ever openly admit to my country of origin anywhere.
I see thanks. I assumed so since egypt followed a very similar timeline to you described (even the 21y reign of a murderous dictator lol)
regardless of where you’re from originally, you probably SHOULD be worried about what’s going on in the states right now. it’s for real.
Canada clamped down on immigration several years ago, so that option seems, mostly difficult at best if at all. Not sure about Australia, England, and NZ either.
By the time the world allows those who want to leave the hellscape for elsewhere, it’s almost certainly going to be too late and much worse off :(.
I feel so scared and paranoid, and I’ve never been this scared and paranoid for just existing where I’ve lived my entire life. And yet I’ve already blocked dozens of news feeds and whatnot, and it still doesn’t go away with more slop that gets through the ever growing cracks. Can’t hardly focus or do a thing at all.
My country puts informants in diasporas in foreign countries so… yeah, it happens.
Yeah. I have seen this in my community. I even know some of them.
GoogleAbdelfattah sisi wants to know your location
- Unless you are somewhat interesting individual no one from china is looking into your post history;
- Yes, it’s normal to fear retribution from authoritarian shiholes, these fears are mostly irrational ofc.;
- Move out of US.
Move out of US
Easier said than done.
As far as I know, most of the world still recognize the US as a “democracy” so political asylum applications wouldn’t even be taken seriously.
Move like a normal person, as in apply for work visa and find a work.
What a dumbass piece of advice
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but that’s how people move to other countries. Getting refugee status is either for extremely privileged or extremely desperate. And moving out of your own volition from usa isn’t the second case.
Point is it’s not something a “normal person” can do. It’s an obscenely privileged thing to even suggest. Most countries require proof of enough wealth to support yourself and your family before you can even start the process. And it’s only going to get more strict as countries start locking their doors to climate refugees.
More realistically your exit involves an overflowing boat straight to a migrant camp, then “remigrated” back as the world plunges into a recession and the locals don’t want you. And that’s if you’re lucky.
People in boats are absolute minority of people moving to other countries, and applying for visa is a normal way of moving countries.And climate and refugees has nothing to do with the post where a chinese person in usa asks how can they move to another country. And no most countries do not require proof of wealth for work visa, some even allow to work start working and apply for visa later e.g. Poland.
They’re a minority because it’s an extremely dangerous and low success-rate way to enter. You’re comparing global affluent population shuffling to actual poverty migration. The vast majority of the globe doesn’t have the skills desired for a work visa, much less the ability to pay the costs of relocation. If people desperately needed to migrate quickly, that’s the only way they can.
Poland is a weird example to pick, they’re very publicly in the news right now for blocking a refugee initiative. They may have lax requirements for legal entry at this moment, but all signs point to a shift.
All migration is population pressure, I can assure you these governments don’t care if you’re from the USA fleeing fascism or a South-Asian country fleeing wet bulb events.
I’m right there with you.
my parents came to USA before i was born and i was born here. i don’t know how cheetoh face would do it, but i have no doubt it would try its best to kick you and i both out, even if it’s obviously illegal.
unlike some others in the thread, i don’t think this is a trivial worry. I’ve also been silent on certain issues out if concern for my loved ones being targeted for surveillance or worse. i respect you for posting about this. I’m afraid too.
keep talking to trusted friends and take care of your mental health! touch grass, drink water, get the best quality of sleep you can.
Well, it’s definitely the case for me and for some of my friends/family.
I left Ukraine “legally” (it was before the war, when it was still possible to leave “legally” without paying huge bribes), but some of people I know had to escape “illegally” (some went to the Russia-controlled territories, some escaped through mountains/rivers to Moldova, some were caught…).
Zelensky has already tried to persuade European leaders to deport us, but so far he failed. Still, every once in a while news appear (usually from Baltics/Poland, but sometimes from other countries aa well) about some politician wanting to deport us, so this is quite scary shit.Of course it is, sometimes authoritarian governments track you down and murder you with an ice ax in Mexico City.
Left authoritarianism is a scourge just as much as fascism, but I’m an anti-authoritarian centrist. Yes it is normal to fear authoritarians. The proletariat must not be disarmed.
quite a lot to unpack here
Maybe it’s crazy behavior, but 1.) I’ve had similar thoughts for various reasons relating to my past and 2.) it has made me feel better: I came up with a little emergency plan. If shit hits the fan, I’m rounding up the kids and dogs and getting to X location as quickly/cautiously as possible, after which I will take steps Y, Z, etc…
Hopefully it stays crazy thinking. And if it doesn’t, hopefully it’s not just an asinine and unrealistic thought that proves impossible. But it makes me feel a little better to have thought about what I would actually do, if it came down to it. And what might it look like to prompt such a decision on my part.
I think 'n also interesting question is: do they still feel the influence of the indoctrination of their previous country?
Yes, and it will get less. Hang in there and don’t be afraid to connect.
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