If you stayed home because of Gaza, this is your fault.
Keep punching left and down. That will really help build the coalition to resist fascism.
I’m not punching left, and I refuse to accept your categorisation of anything short of completely trashing the DNC is not left enough.
The reason I voted for Harris is because I care about the lives of Palestinians. You can try to claim that this isn’t true, but you’re just wrong. And none of your bullshit purity tests will change that.
If you call yourself a progressive, and you stayed home on Tuesday, I want nothing to do with you. There’s my purity test. Fuck right off.
The only thing I said was don’t punch left. I literally said none of the other things you are ranting about, so go bark at someone else.
I didn’t vote for Harris, because… I’m not a US citizen. I would have if I were, if you need to know. I’m sitting here on my side of the border, seeing fascism take over on your side and I’m shocked to see you guys bicker about pointing fingers instead of facing reality and thinking wtf you have to do to survive the next 4 years. It’s as if you don’t really understand what’s about to hit you.
You’re in deep crisis mode. Being mad at Muslims and Stein voters and non-voters is going to be a barrier to building a coalition of resistance. That’s just the plain reality of what strategic organizing will require. Don’t burn bridges with the people you will need in the next 4 years. You hit the iceberg, now is not the time to point fingers about whose fault that it is, it’s time to get to the boats and every one who can help with that is valuable.
The only thing I said was don’t punch left. I literally said none of the other things you are ranting about,
Ok then, what the fuck does “punching left” mean?
Third paragraph of my previous comment:
Being mad at Muslims and Stein voters and non-voters is going to be a barrier to building a coalition of resistance. That’s just the plain reality of what strategic organizing will require. Don’t burn bridges with the people you will need in the next 4 years.
Those people are fundamentally too stupid and too useless to work with.
Good luck, buddy.
The people who stayed home are not the people on the left. The people on the left voted against fascism. The people who stayed home for the election are also going to be useless in an anti-fascism coalition, seeing as they couldn’t be bothered to do the bare minimum.
The coalition to resist fascism should have existed 2 days ago
I feel like you have a misconception about how democracy works. When there’s position that enjoys broad popular support (such as universal health care, or a cessation of the genocide in Gaza), it isn’t on the democrats to take that position so the electorate will vote for them, it’s on the electorate to either change their mind on the issue, or vote for the democrats regardless.
It’s important to internalize this lesson. Next cycle you’ll likely get to practice it with trans rights, if the talking heads on MSNBC who are blaming wokeness for the democrats losing the election are any indication. The idea that politicians and their policies are responsible for losing/winning elections is silly. You’re here for them, not the other way around.
next cycle
Lol
60% of white men. 53% of white women.
Remember, the universe for those stats are only voters which account for less than half of the total US population.
Mostly Millennials, GenX, and Boomers as well.
Young people protesting Gaza had almost no influence on this election
No, all the Gen Z incel boys voted for hatred and misogyny.
While they didn’t help, I suspect their numbers were small enough to not matter in the scheme of what happened.
The answer is likely mundane. My guess is overall turnout was lower because things didn’t feel as ‘crisis’ like as 2020. The needle for people barely aware of politics even as they vote stayed at the same place as it was in 2020: Things aren’t great, kick whoever is in office out in hopes the alternative does better. Last time they came out for Biden because Trump was at the wheel. Now they show up for Trump because the president was a democrat.
This segment of the electorate is not particularly politically aware, let alone active, and likely has little to no opinion about the broader world. The relative likelihood of them turning up at all depends on how badly things are going (less likely to show up this time compared to the unprecedented mess of 2020), and to the extent they show up they just vote against whoever is in charge that day.
However, those people are generally quiet, and so we turn our focus instead to the loudest folks proclaiming a refusal to vote for Harris.
If it was close, I would agree. It wasn’t even close by such a huge margin the more mundane factors I think are the only ones big enough to explain things.
My guess is overall turnout was lower because things didn’t feel as ‘crisis’ like as 2020.
What an insane take…
For the politically disengaged? It is an accurate take.
In 2020, you had massive unemployment. People personally were stuck at home with nowhere they could go. Many of them saw a loved one suffer death at the hands of a pandemic, or personally get very sick. That is a direct and visceral experience of “things are bad”. They didn’t need to follow any news, study any charts, read any policy, they knew that their direct subjective experience was bad.
In 2024, things for people are largely normal, but a lot of bills are high. Grading on a curve, this is much further from a personal crisis for most folks. In fact, the grocery bills eased a bit so some people might be seeing a natural ‘light at the end of the tunnel’.
The biggest discused crisis factors in forums like this are only being considered by the politically engaged, and that’s just not most people. Whether it should be or not…
Its definitely a media outreach problem.
Yez, but not in the way you’re thinking. People have been radicalized by misogynists on youtube and tiktok that Russia has paid for. It’s been proven for some of them, and if you think they’re the only ones, you’re living in a fantasy land.
Except gen z men voted at like a 2% more for trump in a low turnout election its like well within every margin of error that it could be decreasing support since 2020.
The significant portion of the almost 20 million Biden voters that just checked out of politics and decided since everything seemed ok, no need to vote. Thats the media outreach problem. It guarantees that republicans will regain power everytime the economy gets patched up with duct tape.
Unfortunately, I think the media has blared the things people should be caring like crazy. Problems remain:
- People only internalize their personal experience, and they only care so much about what they see on the screen.
- To the extent they may care, they also see a counter campaign of folks claiming otherwise, and they don’t really have a good way to casually know which viewpoint to take seriously.
I think that points to the democrats need for sneaker based messaging networks. Instead of buying huge expensive ads that nonvoters won’t watch and giving that money out to tv networks why not use the high volunteer base to buy t shirts and restaurant meal coupons then hand them out to people. stuff like that. I think there needs to be more lateral thinking here. Less emails, more tshirts.
This is largely how non voters have responded when asked as far as I’ve seen: “feels like things aren’t broken, I can sit this out”
Its not a take its just the reality we live in.
Every person that says that is now a Nazi sympathizer.
I agree with you in spirit but not in rhetoric. I’d call them dipshits.
It doesn’t matter. A vote that was not cast or cast for anyone other than Harris we warned them and warned them, and they didn’t listen.
If I ever hear someone say “Gen Z will save us” again, I’m going to have some strong words for them. Gen Z is a bunch of knuckle-dragging Neanderthals and they’ll be the death of us.
If you voted for a guy who can’t even say his opponents name properly , you are also an idiot voting for another idiot.
Being able to learn to say your opponents name is a life skill which is useful for presidency… And Kamala’s name isn’t hard
It’s absolutely fucked that a lot of them stood their laughing as he displayed that he never left high school
The downvotes on this very obviously correct comment are nearly the same proportion of D votes missing from this election, how befitting.
I wouldn’t be surprised though if Trump just ignores him and appoints a drug company lobbyist instead. RFK Jr. forgot Rule #1 when dealing with Trump: get paid up front.
Would be hilarious considering he dropped out just to beg trumo for a spot. He’s pathetic and hope you’re right
Awesome, we are in a situation where I am openly hoping for the corrupt commercial outcome…
Also that he demands absolute loyality but gives none.
There’s going to be an outbreak of polio because of this idiot.
lol welcome to the middle ages
If you can avoid the dark ages, you should probably consider that a win right now…
Somebody is counting his chickens before they’ve hatched.
The brainworms have definitely hatched though
Why is anyone surprised. They said what they were gonna do. They’re now making concrete plans to do the things they said they were gonna do.
I’m gonna fuckin leave.
And somehow, their idiot supporters will find a way to blame someone else when all of these preventable diseases start making a comeback. It’ll be wokeness, or immigratns, or whatever, just anything other than their idiotic decisions.
I hope at least they sack the ones who were approving drugs they knew didn’t work because of big pharma pressure. Would be a silver lining.
those are for sure the ones sticking around
Edit: Literally they’re going to put an “ivermectin covid” guy in charge despite the fact quality studies show it at best does nothing and at worst may be slightly harmful
Well after they gut the FDA im sure those people will be gone
Now all drugs from companies who donate to the RNC will automatically be approved instead
With immunity for any other health issues they cause. We’re now living in an Oligarchy.
I’d love to see america punished by their idiotic choices even once.
His brain worms plan on ensuring antihelmintic drugs do not get advanced.
While RFK Jr is the same worm man, let’s please remember all the cries about drugs being expensive and regulators stifling competition there, and that (from what I’ve read, I’ve never been to US) what can be put into food is already not very well regulated in your country.
Those agencies are problematic. Just like actions aimed at something good may have negative side effects, often outweighing the effect in the intended direction, similarly it is here.
And after typing the previous I’ve read the article and that’s what he’s saying, mentioning Canada as the good example. Unfortunately by analogy this would mean that for drug regulation he’d go the same way, only with his antivaxxer views. Also talking about kids being healthier is cringe.
The agencies are problematic because they generally aren’t allowed or don’t have the budget to properly regulate things. Eliminating departments isn’t going to help anything, and I really don’t think the guy that picks up roadkill for a snack will improve the overall quality of food in the country.
Not sure this is the case with FDA.
We’ll see. Roadkill for snack is fine when meat’s cooked correctly, unless it’s a roadkill near Chernobyl.
But it’s understandable not to trust the guy who had part of his brain eaten by a parasite to cook meat correctly.
It’s important to know that both the FDA and the USDA are in charge of inspecting food, and which food is covered by which agency can be complicated.
FSIS [under the USDA] conducts continuous daily inspections of foods in its domain, whereas FDA inspections have no regular schedule. The FDA is more likely to inspect only after a tip about a possible food safety violation, so random inspections can occur up to 10 years apart or, in rare cases, not at all.
“It’s not that they don’t want to inspect more, they just don’t have the funding,” Raymond says.
This inspection imbalance means that pepperoni pizza, because it contains meat, has ingredients that will be inspected three times before the product hits the grocery store freezer: at the slaughterhouse, the packing plant and the pizza factory. A vegetarian pizza produced at the same facility, however, will probably not undergo any inspection.
And in regard to the FDA being not allowed to regulate:
[The Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act of 1994] placed the burden of proof concerning dietary supplement safety on FDA, requiring the agency to show that a dietary supplement ingredient is adulterated rather than requiring the manufacturer to prove a supplement is safe prior to marketing. This is in contrast to new food additives, which require submission of safety information in a food additive petition prior to marketing, or drugs, which generally require submission of safety data as part of a new drug application prior to marketing.
At least with dietary supplements, they can’t make a new product guarantee it’s safe, the FDA needs to already know something is dangerous before it can force a recall.
If you’d prefer to learn more through a comedian, John Oliver covered this topic a while back https://youtu.be/Za45bT41sXg
There’s a serious problem where the majority of grocery market supplements do not contain the substances they claim to contain. There is no monitoring.
OK, will watch
Whewww them political spoils be spoiling
I always imagined him as the guy at the end of Road House where Patrick Swayze ripped his throat out and round-housed him into the pond. But he survived, left the redneckville and turns out half of his vocal cords was left intact.
He didn’t create the nearly 2 trillion dollar deficit. The government is broke, cuts must be made.
Yeah - it’s the FDA and CDC that are the true money pits in the US government… Let’s eliminate the IRS and EPA while we’re at it - really smash those guardrails and let the altruistic market fix it - that always works…
Ohhh look - we’re cutting taxes for those that need it least again - but that’s responsible spending - it’s all been accumulating for over half a century, so it’s got to start trickling down any day now, guys.
I expect deep cuts will need to be made across the board
As an example, the IRS returns $6 for every dollar spent on it, and absolutely all available evidence shows that if you remove all the guardrails, things get far worse almost immediately.
Can you point to an example of fascism working? Every example I’ve seen ended with massive decline in quality of life, rampant waste, and both economic and government collapse - usually with a dead leader through suicide or execution, generally with their corpse being dragged through the streets by an understandably furious populace. It’ll all work out this time, though… right?
Fascism? No. Argentina seems to rapidly be improving with thier ultra-extreme cuts.
Your defence of your fascist alignment is to concede it’s always ended terribly, then point to an anarcho-capitalist example where the goal is to collapse the government because Milei hasn’t finished the job after checks watch less than a year?
I get that he’s done a fairly commendable job with the economic tailspin so-far, but I’m not sure I see the relevance.
You’re the one who brought up fascism. I said I can’t think of an example of fascism working. Cutting government scope is the opposite of fascism. Fascism is characterized by a strong centralized authority, which cutting is the opposite of.
Oh - my mistake - you think you’re not supporting fascism… It’d be quaint if it weren’t for the consequences.
Fascism is characterised by the merging of state and commercial interests, not a strong centralised authority in a beuracratic sense. Let’s run the list, shall we?
“The cult of tradition”, characterized by cultural syncretism, even at the risk of internal contradiction. When all truth has already been revealed by tradition, no new learning can occur, only further interpretation and refinement.
Check.
“The rejection of modernism”, which views the rationalistic development of Western culture since the Enlightenment as a descent into depravity. Eco distinguishes this from a rejection of superficial technological advancement, as many fascist regimes cite their industrial potency as proof of the vitality of their system.
Check.
“The cult of action for action’s sake”, which dictates that action is of value in itself and should be taken without intellectual reflection. This, says Eco, is connected with anti-intellectualism and irrationalism, and often manifests in attacks on modern culture and science.
Check.
“Disagreement is treason” – fascism devalues intellectual discourse and critical reasoning as barriers to action, as well as out of fear that such analysis will expose the contradictions embodied in a syncretistic faith.
Big check.
“Fear of difference”, which fascism seeks to exploit and exacerbate, often in the form of racism or an appeal against foreigners and immigrants.
That couldn’t be Trum- CHECK.
“Appeal to a frustrated middle class”, fearing economic pressure from the demands and aspirations of lower social groups.
Check.
“Obsession with a plot” and the hyping-up of an enemy threat. This often combines an appeal to xenophobia with a fear of disloyalty and sabotage from marginalized groups living within the society. Eco also cites Pat Robertson’s book The New World Order as a prominent example of a plot obsession.
Check.
Fascist societies rhetorically cast their enemies as “at the same time too strong and too weak”. On the one hand, fascists play up the power of certain disfavored elites to encourage in their followers a sense of grievance and humiliation. On the other hand, fascist leaders point to the decadence of those elites as proof of their ultimate feebleness in the face of an overwhelming popular will.
Check.
“Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy” because “life is permanent warfare” – there must always be an enemy to fight. Both fascist Germany under Hitler and Italy under Mussolini worked first to organize and clean up their respective countries and then build the war machines that they later intended to and did use, despite Germany being under restrictions of the Versailles treaty to not build a military force. This principle leads to a fundamental contradiction within fascism: the incompatibility of ultimate triumph with perpetual war.
Ukraine/Palestine - soft check.
“Contempt for the weak”, which is uncomfortably married to a chauvinistic popular elitism, in which every member of society is superior to outsiders by virtue of belonging to the in-group. Eco sees in these attitudes the root of a deep tension in the fundamentally hierarchical structure of fascist polities, as they encourage leaders to despise their underlings, up to the ultimate leader, who holds the whole country in contempt for having allowed him to overtake it by force.
Check.
“Everybody is educated to become a hero”, which leads to the embrace of a cult of death. As Eco observes, “[t]he Ur-Fascist hero is impatient to die. In his impatience, he more frequently sends other people to death.”
Soft check, but that’s clearly firming up.
“Machismo”, which sublimates the difficult work of permanent war and heroism into the sexual sphere. Fascists thus hold “both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality”.
Check.
“Selective populism” – the people, conceived monolithically, have a common will, distinct from and superior to the viewpoint of any individual. As no mass of people can ever be truly unanimous, the leader holds himself out as the interpreter of the popular will (though truly he alone dictates it). Fascists use this concept to delegitimize democratic institutions they accuse of “no longer represent[ing] the voice of the people”.
Check.
“Newspeak” – fascism employs and promotes an impoverished vocabulary in order to limit critical reasoning.
Check.
I’ve got bad news for you…
So, in other words, Trump is going to do exactly what he told us he would do.
Make no mistake, if Trump wants it, his supporters want it. I work with a bunch of morons. The country is in the hands of a cult.
My coworkers support political assassination, concentration camps for LGBT, forced Christianity. If Trump said it, they want it.
I am fully radicalized. Fuck this country.
IRS employees better start job hunting.
While being able to say that a majority of voters wanted it this way because they voted for him.
Trump didn’t lie. This was all out there for everyone to see.
Anything else is just denying the reality that a majority of Americans are sheep and don’t know what is good for them.
I don’t like that reality either, but here we are. It’s time for these people to lie in the bed of their own making.
Hold Trump voters and non voters accountable for the consequences of their actions and inaction. It’s the only way forward.
Same justification he will use for a nationwide abortion ban and locking up his political opponents.
Technically, he said he has no knowledge of Project 2025. Fortunately for Republicans, Trump’s team is all over it.
In an apparent attempt to troll their political opponents, MAGA allies gleefully announced the extreme conservative blueprint is ‘on the Trump agenda’
…In an apparent attempt to troll their political opponents…
I’m depressed of this shit
He said Project 2025 was great back in 2022 before the backlash, it isn’t like he is consistent.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-video-project-2025-colossal-mandate/
I missed that. Thanks for the source!
Oh for sure - and the nutters will be saying it’s ‘divine mandate’ since he survived those assassination attempts. We ain’t seen shit yet.
I saw that very claim elsewhere today. Something something “god didn’t make him turn his head at just the right moment for him to lose the election.”
Trump survives assassination: “God wants him to live!”
Trump dies in assassination: “Satan sent his demons to kill his foe!”
Isn’t it great how their believes always tell them they are right and good and others are wrong and evil?
That sneaky bastard!
A lot of people are going to die because of this conspiracy theorist.
I think of someone very close to me who takes mediation for depression, medication that RFK thinks is bullshit, and medication that is regulated by the FDA.
She got a bad batch of something from a generic supplier and became dangerously suicidal. We were able to report this to the FDA and send them the medication so people wouldn’t die.
I can’t see how less staffing is going to make things better. We need more people on the ground so inspections are more regular and so deadly manufacturing problems are caught early.
Not only are a lot of people going to die, the EU is going to be on some “bad” list very soon, because free travel and any kind of “free” shipping won’t be possible anymore - and I’d say even some Asian, African and maybe even Australia are going to follow that, heck, maybe even Canada. Although I’m not sure if Canada is able to actually do that…
Huh? What context is this list set up in? I don’t really see how it relates to the medication issue.
Vaccines and medications help in stopping the spread of diseases. If the rest of the world can’t make sure the US plays after international rules, they can’t let anyone or anything from the US in
Oooh yeah good point. I didn’t make that connection
They’ll blame democrats and win even more votes.
You just need to reference their last playbook: less data means it’s not happening, like covid.
I can’t see how less staffing is going to make things better.
Oh it makes things better alright. Better for the drug companies who now don’t have to deal with pesky things like “safety” and “consequences for killing people”.
Or “overhead”, to use a technical term.
