I know enough people who experienced it. Thank god it no longer exists anymore. The present state isn’t great, but it’s much better than what they went through.
How much property do they own now? Germans I’ve spoken to in real life all prefer the GDR to today’s Germany. Oh, and were they by chance even from East Germany?
Tell me you don’t understand the rise of fascism in (especially east) Germany without telling me you don’t understand it. Look at the AfD demonstrations, and all the DDR-paraphernalia people bring there. Look at the interviews with the people there, what a number of them say. Yes, there are plenty of people there who are against the DDR as well, but an astonishing number of them want it back. Hell, AfD leaders have been leading chants of the DDR anthem recently.
No. I barely have the emotional bandwidth for this and I’m on the wrong device for a long form comment but let’s give it a try.
East Germans got fucked by annexation. For a long time PDS/Die Linke did well in the former DDR states, but they never stood a chance at national power since capitalist West Germany cannot tolerate socialism. And why would you vote for the same party for over a generation when they never get into power and nothing improves for you anyway? The “mainstream” parties were the people who looted the East and ignore their material struggles while being very condescending, so they have almost no support. Then come the AfD, an opportunist party of fascist grifters no doubt, but one which saw the struggles and frustration of East Germans and spoke to them. Not at them, not down to them, but to them. They don’t have solutions but they at least speak to the situation of the East, and thus they have developed a base of support.
So yes, the AfD grifters pretend to have Natalie and wave DDR flags to get votes, and many people who really have Ostalgie and may have voted Left ten or twenty years ago now vote AfD, because their material conditions have put them in a really shitty place.
If you’re interested in learning more about the DDR and the fall of socialism in Europe I can recommend the books “Stasi State or Socialist Paradise” and “Blackshirts and Reds”.
In general equating the DDR with fascism and the Nazi state is a tired old capitalist propaganda trope which unfortunately far too many people still believe even though it is a complete logical fallacy. There are plenty of resources on Lemmygrad to completely annihilate that concept.
Not quite that one-sided. Yes there were plenty of cases where the west had their noses in the air. At the same time, for example, the west poured a large amount of money into rebuilding and bringing the east back up to the modern standards - see the Solidaritätszuschlag.
Also, interesting how you first try to discredit the idea that there is any overlap between people wanting the DDR back and fascist supporters, and then suddenly have a whole bunch of excuses as to why those people there support fascists.
At the same time, for example, the west poured a large amount of money into rebuilding and bringing the east back up to the modern standards - see the Solidaritätszuschlag.
Rebuilding what? West Germans poured money into making banks. That’s it. They closed down or sold off (and then mostly closed down or downscaled) all publicly owned industry. East German unemployment is double that of the West German unemployment. They privatized state-owned homes, then let them dilapitate or raised the rents to extraordinary levels. The life of the average East German was much better in 1988 than it is now, by any metric: access to services (education, healthcare, etc), buying power, coloric intake, life expectancy, employment, happiness, housing, vacation time, etc.
They didn’t pour money to “modernize” East Germany. They gave money to industrialists, bankers and politicians to perform capitalist shock therapy on the East Germans. The results were massive profits for a few West German and the impoverisation of the entirety of East Germany
suddenly have a whole bunch of excuses as to why those people there support fascists.
Those are not excuses. Those are reasons. I don’t like them either, but doesn’t make it less true.
West Germans poured money into making banks. That’s it.
Sorry, that’s just patently false. Have you even seen what things looked like towards the end of the DDR? Façades were blackened from pollution. Many buildings were falling apart. Many of those buildings have been fixed up. I’ve seen it myself personally, the difference is night and day, and there is plenty of evidence of that to go around.
Those are not excuses. Those are reasons. I don’t like them either, but doesn’t make it less true.
To be fair, excuses was an overstatement. My point was that if the commenter first demands citations for what I said (insinuating it to be false) then suddenly has a very detailed explanation for it (correct or not, but making it clear he accepted it’s true all along), there’s pretty clearly some bad faith there.
Negative aspects were basically not enough treats. Thats what everyone mentioned. Or like Sparkasse employees (german bank) not getting enough respect lol
It was the upper section of the Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs pyramid that the GDR failed at.
Liberal education blames communism for not “educating” East Germans in the practices of democracy and insinuates they instinctively seek out strongman populist leaders because its familiar to them. Nowadays a pinch of orientalism is added and states that since unlike the West where “Americans taught Germans Democracy” the East under evvul ruzzians never managed to ingratiate “democratic values” in their society.
Lol I’m not bullshitting. Poverty. Restrictions on freedom of expression that make Germany’s current problems in that department look like nothing. Didn’t even have enough access to toilet paper at times, and we’re not talking about a pandemic or anything like that.
I also know a lot of people who experienced it and they are mostly positive about it. Most of them born between 1940-1960, so they experienced its entire existence.
I know enough people who experienced it. Thank god it no longer exists anymore. The present state isn’t great, but it’s much better than what they went through.
How much property do they own now? Germans I’ve spoken to in real life all prefer the GDR to today’s Germany. Oh, and were they by chance even from East Germany?
Removed by mod
lol
Citation needed.
Tell me you don’t understand the rise of fascism in (especially east) Germany without telling me you don’t understand it. Look at the AfD demonstrations, and all the DDR-paraphernalia people bring there. Look at the interviews with the people there, what a number of them say. Yes, there are plenty of people there who are against the DDR as well, but an astonishing number of them want it back. Hell, AfD leaders have been leading chants of the DDR anthem recently.
No. I barely have the emotional bandwidth for this and I’m on the wrong device for a long form comment but let’s give it a try.
East Germans got fucked by annexation. For a long time PDS/Die Linke did well in the former DDR states, but they never stood a chance at national power since capitalist West Germany cannot tolerate socialism. And why would you vote for the same party for over a generation when they never get into power and nothing improves for you anyway? The “mainstream” parties were the people who looted the East and ignore their material struggles while being very condescending, so they have almost no support. Then come the AfD, an opportunist party of fascist grifters no doubt, but one which saw the struggles and frustration of East Germans and spoke to them. Not at them, not down to them, but to them. They don’t have solutions but they at least speak to the situation of the East, and thus they have developed a base of support.
So yes, the AfD grifters pretend to have Natalie and wave DDR flags to get votes, and many people who really have Ostalgie and may have voted Left ten or twenty years ago now vote AfD, because their material conditions have put them in a really shitty place.
If you’re interested in learning more about the DDR and the fall of socialism in Europe I can recommend the books “Stasi State or Socialist Paradise” and “Blackshirts and Reds”.
In general equating the DDR with fascism and the Nazi state is a tired old capitalist propaganda trope which unfortunately far too many people still believe even though it is a complete logical fallacy. There are plenty of resources on Lemmygrad to completely annihilate that concept.
Not quite that one-sided. Yes there were plenty of cases where the west had their noses in the air. At the same time, for example, the west poured a large amount of money into rebuilding and bringing the east back up to the modern standards - see the Solidaritätszuschlag.
Also, interesting how you first try to discredit the idea that there is any overlap between people wanting the DDR back and fascist supporters, and then suddenly have a whole bunch of excuses as to why those people there support fascists.
Not the person you responded to but:
Rebuilding what? West Germans poured money into making banks. That’s it. They closed down or sold off (and then mostly closed down or downscaled) all publicly owned industry. East German unemployment is double that of the West German unemployment. They privatized state-owned homes, then let them dilapitate or raised the rents to extraordinary levels. The life of the average East German was much better in 1988 than it is now, by any metric: access to services (education, healthcare, etc), buying power, coloric intake, life expectancy, employment, happiness, housing, vacation time, etc.
They didn’t pour money to “modernize” East Germany. They gave money to industrialists, bankers and politicians to perform capitalist shock therapy on the East Germans. The results were massive profits for a few West German and the impoverisation of the entirety of East Germany
Those are not excuses. Those are reasons. I don’t like them either, but doesn’t make it less true.
Sorry, that’s just patently false. Have you even seen what things looked like towards the end of the DDR? Façades were blackened from pollution. Many buildings were falling apart. Many of those buildings have been fixed up. I’ve seen it myself personally, the difference is night and day, and there is plenty of evidence of that to go around.
To be fair, excuses was an overstatement. My point was that if the commenter first demands citations for what I said (insinuating it to be false) then suddenly has a very detailed explanation for it (correct or not, but making it clear he accepted it’s true all along), there’s pretty clearly some bad faith there.
Negative aspects like?
Negative aspects were basically not enough treats. Thats what everyone mentioned. Or like Sparkasse employees (german bank) not getting enough respect lol
It was the upper section of the Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs pyramid that the GDR failed at.
Also what fascism?
Liberal education blames communism for not “educating” East Germans in the practices of democracy and insinuates they instinctively seek out strongman populist leaders because its familiar to them. Nowadays a pinch of orientalism is added and states that since unlike the West where “Americans taught Germans Democracy” the East under evvul ruzzians never managed to ingratiate “democratic values” in their society.
They’re saying that AfD support in the East today means the DDR was fascist. Obviously this is an absurd suggestion.
Exactly
Uh, that’s quite the misrepresentation of what I wrote.
know enough people? what were the conditions? You’re bullshitting.
Lol I’m not bullshitting. Poverty. Restrictions on freedom of expression that make Germany’s current problems in that department look like nothing. Didn’t even have enough access to toilet paper at times, and we’re not talking about a pandemic or anything like that.
how old are these people you know?
Ya know, there’s a saying in Russia: “the younger is the blogger, the harsher was their life in USSR”, I think the same may go for DDR as well
The most aggressively anti-communist people from formerly socialist countries whom I know or am familiar with were all born in the 1990s.
boris borisov, b. 1950: i loved the ussr it was amazing
vladimir vladimirov, b. 1987: i hate the ussr it was the worst time in my life
I also know a lot of people who experienced it and they are mostly positive about it. Most of them born between 1940-1960, so they experienced its entire existence.