An investigation by Gamers Nexus found LG smart TVs sweep local networks to map phones and nearby devices. Tests also showed the sets can capture microphone audio with the screen off — they then upload data once reconnected to the internet.
Bring on the TV firmware. Jailbreak your consoles. Use Linux or steal windows and use tools to completely rip its spyware out of it (e.g. https://revi.cc/).
Custom firmware anywhere and everywhere a device that someone supports with custom firmware is a feature worth researching.
The fucks are only going to jeep doing it. Protect yourself. Push for GDPR like laws in the US. California’s privacy laws are headed in the right direction.
I think the original coverage from Gamers Nexus should also be linked here:
“We own the glass, we own the TV, we own the living room. We know who is in an LG home.” –LG President of Ads
These are the Gamers Nexus videos btw. Support them and their work. Get some cool shirts and physical media while you’re at it.
What is so dumb is he is banned from running a public company so they get him to run a private company. WTF the oligarchs are really this bad.
accountablity? none. consequences? none (maybe a slap on the wrist at most).
“The toaster is listening” in 2006 🤣
“The toaster is listening” in 2026 😬
Frakking toasters.
It’s 1984 for sure. Every devices listens.
SO SAY WE ALL!
Waiting for the “No idea how this happened, we’re sorry and promise to make this better in future versions” moment - instead of admitting that this is just part of their business model.
Hoping for prosecution from the EU and at least one other country.
I’m hoping not only prosecution, but an actual outcome such that they (and other companies) are afraid to try this again.
If all they get is a small fine that’s just a business expense to them, then of course they’ll continue doing sh** like this.
from the EU and at least one other country.
EU is not a country.
Current Commission is pushing for chatcontrol so they’d probably applaud LG’s practices.
LOL
I knew someone would point that out.
“other” in this case is shorthand for “not in EU”.
The EU is not a country, yet it does stuff that otherwise countries do, like legislating and judicating privacy laws. The correct term would have been “other political entity” but what is the point of that word picking again?
Like any political entity the EU can do many things at once, the good, the bad, and the ugly. Different institutions also have different interests. The Commission isn’t the primary driver behind chat control, a number of member states are. At the same time EU courts tend to be staunchly opposed to mass surveillance and in the European Parliament it depends on the party.
Current Commission is pushing for chatcontrol so they’d probably applaud LG’s practices.
Just because they want to spy on you doesn’t mean they are okay with other organizations spying on you.
I’ll let the EU prove me wrong.
This is a good time to remind everyone to:
- Install Pi Hole, get LG rules to nerf all the telemetric data going out
- Jailbreak the TV, install SmartTube for your YouTube account without ads and live your best life
- Edit: since some people asked for a Pi Hole configuration, I found a couple of them that I’m going to try out and tweak:
I hope it helps!
My LG TV runs WebOS, which is a linux distro. I have been wondering how hard it is to root and replace with a distro of my own choosing. I had thought because my TV is pretty old that I was safe from the more sophisticated spying, but last week it interrupted what I was watching and would not let me continue using it without agreeing to new terms of use. This revived my interest in rooting it.
I saw this linked the other day. I haven’t looked into it deeply or done it.
I rooted my C1 years ago. I spent weeks afterwards worried that I just destroyed the warranty of a $1,500 TV.
But today, I’ve never felt so justified.
I didn’t know LG webOS rooting was a thing, that’s interesting to know.
There is an open source version of webOS, although I don’t know how it compares to the stock LG version. Maybe there will eventually be something like a LineageOS equivalent.
https://cani.rootmy.tv/ - I just recently bought an LG for the first time, with eyes wide open, and used this site to get root on it, as well as VLANing it with a strict block list, but also an allow list only based policy, and strict no external DNS requests policies.
Also worth knowing that when accepting their policies many of them are optional and are just data slurping consent , think it was the top 2 compulsory in my region out of about 5.
Go look up “tivoization”. GPLv2 isn’t enough to protect you from this shit.
there was a time… long past I suppose …when this would have been an outrage and politicians would be holding press conferences where they took crowbar swings to such devices. Things sure have changed.
I have a Samsung TV that I suspect does this. Once upon a time (back when I was less knowledgeable about this practice) I connected my TV to the internet. I have since been totally I able to forget my network from the TV, even a factory reset didn’t wipe the network settings from it. I’ve had to block it from the network at a router level.
I only discovered it was still doing this when I got a new router, and I had a popup on my TV saying “software update downloaded and complete” and I was wondering how tf it did that even though I’d gone through the process of forgetting the network, and seemingly the settings showed it had been “done”.
Shady fucks.
Checks out. I wish this was a conspiracy - but they got caught shaking hands w CIA. most people forgot
using US tech - either domestic or foreign; youre being spied by both marketers or governments. sad but true
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vault_7
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cia-hacked-samsung-smart-tvs-wikileaks-vault-7/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/07/cia-targeting-devices-smartphones-pc-tv-wikileaks
The CIA didn’t work with Samsung; they found a vulnerability in Samsung TVs then didn’t tell anyone about it.
Rip out the antenna.
Agreed, but, router block is far less work. 🤣
Right… Because it will only talk to your wireless router.
Genuine question…how else is it going to connect to the internet to upload data?
Your neighbor’s open wifi.
Yeah that’s fortunately not a problem for me lol
Read up on Amazon Sidewalk. I’m not saying your TV is using it, but with 5G and mesh networking companies are finding ways to get data back to them without relying on you.
I just changed my SSIDs.
I mean I know it’s about LG but they are all doing this.
This is why my tv’s don’t get internet access.
My TVs don’t get connected to the network because TV companies have started showing ads, and that was bad enough. Then came the fact that a lot of TV apps were making your TV into a residential proxy, making your TV into part of a botnet. And now, on top of all that, they’re spying on you.
The ads were bad enough.
In any reasonable world you would have control over devices in your house that contained computers and would be able to remove bad software and install your own stuff. But, these devices are all covered by section 1201 of the DMCA which makes it a crime to bypass any access control software. This is how Apple is able to block alternate app stores. It’s why printer ink is the most expensive liquid on the planet. It’s why John Deere is able to remotely brick a tractor anywhere in the world, and prevent farmers from fixing their own farm equipment.
What’s especially galling about this is that, the US forced the rest of the world to adopt this bullshit as a part of trade treaties, threatening that any country that didn’t do it might lose tariff-free access to the US economy. And now what happened? Trump just ripped up those treaties anyhow and imposed the tariffs anyhow.
I just wish there was a country brave enough to rip up the IP agreements the US forced on them and allow us to actually own our own stuff again.
They speculated it could connect anyway via some router brands, that allow specific devices to connect automatically. Since cases like that happened.
So if it’s range of neighbours’ routers, you might be fucked anyway. They didn’t confirm it though, to be clear.
He hacked it without internet access and also show that they can collect data without internet access
This is why I don’t buy smart TVs in the first place.
Unless you’re buying a commercial screen of some kind, you can’t really buy dumb TVs anymore, at least not from the major brands.
You can still buy dumb TVs you just have to search for them. You can also go off brand and get a dumb TV from a brand like sceptre.
I just don’t have a TV.
Is this even possible or reasonable? Smart tvs are pretty dumb if you never connect them to the internet, so no issues until they decide to add 5g chips to them
Or… If your neighbor has an open network… Or the TV has a secret networking protocol that allows it to talk to other LG smart devices that are on a network. Or it looks for phones that have the LG app installed… You get the idea. Once you put wireless capabilities in it, there is any number of ways it can leak your data out.
Sure prove it. At least these are proven and now your just making stuff up.
Proving it is the hard and expensive part. I don’t really have the time, skillset, or money to buy a bunch of LG or other branded IoT devices, put them in an isolated test chamber and then try to decode all the RF noise come off them.
That being said, all the technical requirements to do the things I suggested in my previous comment currently exist in those smart TVs. All that was preventing LG from doing that was consumer trust, and they’ve clearly thrown that in the garbage. At this point, based on previous behavior, it should be assumed that they will go as far as possible to exfil customer data without their consent or knowledge, until proven otherwise.
I didn’t read the article and I’ve only watched the “trailer” for Gamers Nexus’ series on this so far, but I bet they actually do check this at some point.
My solution here (this is my solution; i recognize 99.5% of people would never do this) is to open up the tv and physically remove any wifi adapters or cards. Obviously not stopping them from hiding them, but being under the plastic shell is enough to stop most people
I was wondering about this type of fix. Just physically disconnecting, desoldering, or even destroying the wifi hardware and microphone(s). I’m sure they have the usual passive anti-tampering stuff, but I’m guessing it won’t brick the TV if you’re careful and know what you’re doing. Not that I know what I’m doing. But I’m capable of following a YouTube video showing me how to.
Non-smart TVs are still available, they just cost a bit more. As for the connectivity issue, China has been caught hiding 5g chips in electrical control systems and city buses, and selling “free streaming” boxes with malware that scans networks and attacks targets deemed worth while. And all these TVs are being manufactured in China so why take the risk when you aren’t going to use the connectivity anyway?
Specifically which ones? Are they any good? HDR, color accuracy etc?
I went with Sceptre, as for the specs, I’m half blind so all I can say is I can see everything clearly.
Yep an isolated vlan with no internet access. Cast your media from a dongel or computer connected via hdmi.
Bingo. No need to connect your display.
Suggestions for people who only need and want a good screen instead of an ad infested spy station?
Use them as such, why would you give your screen Internet? Attach a Mediacenter of your choice, e.g. Kodi.
Update firmware over USB.
you would think its as simple as that, but i have seen reports of lg automatically connecting to open networks if they are available
theres also the possibility of them adding some cellular transmitter in the future
maybe the only way is the desolder all the wireless antennas…
Can you link these reports? Not that I don’t believe it, but I see many comments claiming this and never including any evidence.
Faraday laminate around the antenna also.
Why? Why would I accept a device in my home that will snoop on me if I use it as intended?
I think the point is they can’t upload anything if they’re not connected. Unfortunately, they’re some of the best OLED TVs right now in terms of the display
I do understand that but I don’t think it’s something we should accept. Next thing these fuckers have their own 5G antenna and connect to mobile with zero config, then what, rip out the antenna or literally wrap it in tinfoil?
I agree. Don’t support what you don’t support. That being said, some people are ok with the trade-offs and that’s entirely up to them
My TV is 15 years old and works fine. Getting the best TV out there is not very meaningful anymore.
Because if you want a screen of a certain size, there are no other reasonable options.
The same reason you might buy a phone that will spy on you and show you ads. You can’t buy a phone that doesn’t do that.
LGs will find nearby wifi that will let them on to phone home. It doesn’t matter if your own network is locked down. And if they’re doing it, it’s likely others are as well.
Ironically LG still makes good screens. Just don’t ever connect their TVs to the network.
Edit: If you must connect it to a network connect it to a different VLAN (Guest network) with no other devices.
It might be best to connect it to a network that just blackholes the traffic so it doesn’t go hunting for some open wifi.
If it’s like a lot of other devices, it will realize that it can’t get to “The Internet” through that network, and might disconnect. It’s possible it will then look for another option, and might see an open network and use it.
Can confirm. My LG C3 has never touched the internet (and never will) and it’s amazing.
However their budget models (under $400) are very uncompetitive.
TCL and Hisense are much better at those, and you can disable Wi-Fi then plug in your own box.
Used commercial displays maybe.
I thought I had disabled everything but mine was still connected to WiFi. Thanks for the reminder. I disconnected it and blocked it at the router.
Tired of doing this for so many devices. We truly live in a full on surveillance state.
For what I saw in the video, even that way, the fucking TV try to connect to any available wifi to comunicate your data. Its insane
Yeah, I went with LG because I wanted to try an OLED, and the price was right. Never buying anything from them again, and whatever tv I do buy next I’ll disable all the shit from the get-go.
I’ve always been privacy minded, but things have gotten so bad, and I’ve gotten complacent. Hell, I just bought a connected smoke alarm system because my wife and kids needed something they can mute remotely. Should have just bought a stick instead.
I need to replace my WiFi, about time I get one with real VLAN support, so I can build an isolated guest/IoT network.
my wife and kids needed something they can mute remotely
But… why?
Because they are short and my ceilings are tall. We also cook a lot and with kids, smoke happens. So, the requirement from the wife was being able to silence remotely.
So by “remotely” you mean “from 1m away”?
When I was a kid we handled this “remote silencing” issue with a broom handle.
I did say “should have just bought a stick instead”.
There was a good reason for it, but no one can remember why now. Anyway, car been mow knock side
connected smoke alarm
What the fuck? I would have simply bought a wall powered smoke alarm, opened it up, and wired an auxiliary button to the snooze button’s pads and put that button lower down as one of those wall switch buttons.
You really just need to complete the circuit to make it shut up.
Looks like HAL from space odyssey.
It does!
Alarm: beeps
Push
Alarm: “I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that”
…
Alarm: keeps beeping
Yeah untrusted devices should run in a client isolated vlan similar to a guest network.
All IOT devices are auto blocked unless I allow them.
Yeah, I’m glad I took the time to set up a separate VLAN for this. It wasn’t easy on my MikroTik router (nothing ever is with those), but it’s worth the effort.
in capitalist America , you don’t listen to tv , tv listen to you !
It’s fair to make it “you don’t watch TV, TV watches you!”
Which I feel like might have been a real Yakov Smirnoff joke way back when.
Kind of — Bob Hope made the joke in the late 1950s:
Bob Hope, back from his Russian junket, noted that there had been TV in all the rooms of his Moscow hotel–”only it watches you”
Brilliant!
