• oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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    2 months ago

    These are extremely targeted attacks, not aimed at the wider population. It is meant to more than scare Hezbollah members for sure.

    • Gerudo@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      The stuff is blowing up inside stores and buildings around innocent people. How is that targeted? Israel doesn’t give 2 shits about innocent people being injured and possibly killed.

      • SkyezOpen@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        It’s still a million times better than dropping a thousand pound bomb on a refugee camp to take out 1 hamas guy, and that’s at least commendable.

        It’s worse that they’re blowing up people in a country they’re not openly at war with, stirring shit and risking even more retaliation.

        • BearGun@ttrpg.network
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          2 months ago

          Being better than war crime is not commendable if you’re still at terrorism. Just because they’ve done horrible shit before doesn’t mean slightly less horrendous shit should be remarked upon and punished.

      • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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        2 months ago

        How is this not super targeted? Hitting 3000 terrorists and and only a handful of civilians as collateral is exceptionally good. For you it’s probably bad anytime Israel kills one of their enemies.

        • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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          2 months ago

          So like killing a “handful” of Israeli civilians would be “exceptionally good” if the target was a bunch of IDF reservists?

        • Gerudo@lemm.ee
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          2 months ago

          Traditionally, a targeted attack minimizes collateral damage to almost zero. Do you have stats on who was killed/injured? I do know 2 children were killed. I’m sure they were hard-core Hezbollah.

          Doing this kind of attack indicates Israel didn’t care AT ALL who they took out. Ah, much like their reactions in Gaza.

          • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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            2 months ago

            3000 pagers exploded. All had small amounts of explosive like 20 g. You can watch videos of them exploding in traffic, supermarkets, etc. people next to them remain unharmed. So you have 3000 explosions all over the place including crowded areas. Two dead children is a quota of 1500:1. That is exceptionally good.

            Compare that to the Hezbollah rocket than killed 11 Druze children in Israel.

            • Gerudo@lemm.ee
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              2 months ago

              Are you both siding this shit? Let me be clear, Hezbollah, Hamas AND Israel each have done awful things to innocent civilians in the name of revenge. How hard is it to say enough is enough and want innocent civilian populations ON ALL SIDES to not die? Children born into these situations, and many adults have zero opportunities to get away from the violence. They should not die due to factions and government decisions.

        • filister@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule80 you know International laws exist for a reason, and Israel clearly violated many international laws, which by the way were created to prevent such events like WWII.

          You know Israel can find a peaceful solution if it only permits the establishment of an independent state of Palestine. But instead they prefer to continue their warmongering politics.

                • acargitz@lemmy.ca
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                  2 months ago

                  The unsaid implication of your loaded question is that the absence of a Palestinian state is “the fault of the Palestinians”. The further implication is that “Israel has no partner for peace” even now. Basically, the implication being we need to keep doing whatever the Israeli right wants in perpetuity.

                  If by some miracle you’re not just parroting right wing pro-Israeli talking points, please elaborate what the hell you mean with your question instead.

                  • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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                    2 months ago

                    This is primarily a call to learn about the history of the conflict.

                    Palestinian political strategy and tactics have been moderately successful at best, IMHO. It’s worth knowing about them and their history. Black September and the role of Palestinian groups in the Lebanese civil war are also worth learning about to better understand the current situation.

      • oberstoffensichtlich@feddit.org
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        2 months ago

        Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.

        Since this targets explicitly combatants, it’s not terrorism.

        Different definitions of terrorism emphasize its randomness, its aim to instill fear, and its broader impact beyond its immediate victims

        The attacks are extremely targeted, and thus not random at all. No terrorism.

        • Dasus@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Explicitly combatants… and anyone who happens to be in their vicinity when the bomb goes off.

          “Extremely” targeted you say? So when they were detonated, the people doing the detonating had visual confirmation of the targets not being in close proximity to civilians?

        • wildbus8979@sh.itjust.works
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          2 months ago

          Since this targets explicitly combatants

          Hezbollah is, also, a political party. It’s military wing was formed to fight the 1982 Israeli invasion of Lebanon.

          • AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
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            2 months ago

            It is classified as a terrorist organisation by the majority of the international community. By legal definition, all Hezbollah members are terrorists regardless of what they do in the organisation, in the same way that all SS members are war criminals even if they were an office janitor or something, which makes them legitimate targets in a broader way than ordinary combatants who are bound and covered by the laws of war.

            • pandapoo@sh.itjust.works
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              2 months ago

              I don’t know if you grew up during the color coded terror threat level days, but after updating everyone on the days terrorism threat color, the nightly news anchors would share how many terrorists were killed in Afghanistan and Iraq.

              Even as a kid, I thought to myself, “how is everyone killed by coalition forces a terrorist?”

              Or, “why are car bombs that kill coalition forces in theatre, called terror attacks?”

              News flash, governments and media label all sorts of organizations and actions terrorism, 90% of it is propaganda, or bullshit.

              Otherwise, I guess that would mean Ukrainian forces fighting Russians are also terrorists, which is how the Russian government and media refers to them.

            • superkret@feddit.org
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              2 months ago

              in the same way that all SS members are war criminals

              That’s absolutely not how the nazis’ war crimes were handled post-war.
              Only those with a direct active role and sufficient knowledge were charged in the post-war trials.
              90+% of the SS members just went right back into their pre-war jobs.
              (At least in the western part, the Soviets were much more…thorough in their de-nazification.)

              Also, a janitor in a civilian building will never be an active combatant by any stretch of international law, no matter which organisation they belong to.

              • AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
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                2 months ago

                In law, every SS member, without exception, was axiomatically classified as a war criminal, with membership being sufficient evidence in itself. Of course, the western allies were not above looking the other way if it potentially meant the difference between victory and defeat in the Cold War, but this was an informal policy imposed from high up.

              • InvertedParallax@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                Do the confederates next, they were back in power in 10 years and terrorizing black people with the KKK shortly after.

          • NOT_RICK@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            From what I can tell online its militant wing predates the political wing. Just adding that in because I thought it might be the other way around based on your comment

          • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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            2 months ago

            The people getting these communication devices aren’t exactly the kitchen personnel

              • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                2 months ago

                Do you think Hezbollah gave her a pager? What was her father’s position within Hezbollah? Maybe he’s the one that fired some rockets that killed someone else’s kids recently

                • Dasus@lemmy.world
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                  2 months ago

                  I’ll engage with your shitty whataboutism after you answer which it is: were the bombs “surgical” and killed a 9-year-old girl on purpose, or were they sloppy attacks which caused civilian casualties on accident?

                  Customary international humanitarian law prohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction. Human Rights Watch

                  • nonailsleft@lemm.ee
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                    2 months ago

                    Although they did kill that girl (and others) on accident, the attack as a whole seems to have been far more surgical that what we usually see in this conflict (and dare I say, certainly more surgical than most attacks from Hezbollah)

        • TokenBoomer@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          Customary international humanitarian law prohibits the use of booby traps – objects that civilians are likely to be attracted to or are associated with normal civilian daily use – precisely to avoid putting civilians at grave risk and produce the devastating scenes that continue to unfold across Lebanon today. The use of an explosive device whose exact location could not be reliably known would be unlawfully indiscriminate, using a means of attack that could not be directed at a specific military target and as a result would strike military targets and civilians without distinction. Human Rights Watch

    • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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      2 months ago

      The pagers were very questionable. Even assuming ONLY hezbollah had the explosive pagers, they were still detonating in public since the point of a pager is to be able to carry it around.

      Walkie talkie wise? I still need to reflexively condemn anything that kills children. But… that actually does seem super targeted and would presumably not be something a terrorist “should” carry around in public during their non-terrorist lives.

    • Broken_Orange_Juice@lemmy.world
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      2 months ago

      We’ve seen targeted attacks before in Lebanon, and they can hit an individual target with a drone without any interference. A targeted attack kills and harms its target, and only it’s target. No one else.