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Yep. It’s a shame. The overall product is great. But the violation and abuse of the AGPL is unacceptable.
Violation of *GPL is bread and butter for most of 3D printer companies, locking out users out of features they paid for and used is terrible though.
shrugs in PRUSA
Which is why I did not write „all”. I had Prusa specifically in mind. It’s a shame they have to compete with companies that do not follow the rules as much as they do.
Not trying to be argumentative, genuinely wanting to learn. What other violations have there been (or are there currently)?
https://github.com/CrealityOfficial/Ender-3_V3_KE_Klipper/issues/13 They all basically use klipper.
Ender 3s originally used Marlin has that changed? I thoughtKlipper required too much processing for the simpler printers like Enders.
The Ender 3 V3 has pretty much nothing in common with the Ender 3, other than the name and that it’s a bed slinger
KE and SE too I think
Here’s just one sample that came up when I searched for “3d printer GPL violation”
An 8 year old blog post from a resale store linking to a website that no longer exists… It doesn’t offer a ton of clarity :/
There are far more bountiful resources to be found, including GitHub issues with concrete examples. I picked that one because I know that all four of the companies listed are problematic. I do not currently have the time to find more detailed links, but they’re out there.
Very true
Violation of *GPL is bread and butter for most of CHINESE 3D printer companies
The whole Bambu Lab situation isn’t really a surprise. Always stay away from companies that want to be the “Apple” of their niche.
Start “open-ish”, gain traction, start abusing market position, start closing things off, become hostile to your customers…
Like Firefox
Let’s add CAD.
I’ve been screaming to everyone I know… Use freeCAD or other opensource CAD systems or free form modelers like Blender.org.
People who don’t know about Auto desk and PTC don’t know how evil those companies are. They’re dinosaurs and need to go. Let’s opensource the future.
Unfortunately the open source options for CAD have to come a very long way before I could even consider using them. Onshape is the only “free” option I’ve found that is bearable to use compared to the likes of SolidWorks and Creo.
Generally speaking, I will recommend software based on the audience’s core competency.
As of FreeCAD 1.0 I can’t in good conscience recommend against trying it, especially anyone that is new and just learning the principles of parametric CAD.
I get that it is still not as easy, and it’s especially hard for old dogs to learn new tricks, but I feel anyone that is willing to learn how to use CAD in the first place can now learn how to use FreeCAD.
I have personally found it very fulfilling to learn FreeCAD in the last year and know I’m no longer tied to any source of enshittification in my 3D printing pipeline. (Shoutouts to MangoJelly and Deltahedran on YouTube btw.)
I also feel that as that audience grows for FreeCAD and its popularity rises, that in turn helps the users of the proprietary software. Healthy competition is important after all!
I started with FreeCAD 1.1 a few weeks ago, with virtually no CAD experience. Because I screw things up and change my mind a lot, the parametric approach has been rewarding.
I used it a couple of weeks ago to create a replacement part for my canon 6D. I lost the top dial lol.
But in general, my interests are to create lens adapters and optics to use with my camera and my UV alternative photography printing projects.
My initial purchase for my 3D printer was to print IEMs and custom iem ear protection. Somehow I made the numbers work for my wife’s approval. And indeed I was able to 3D scan a silicon mold of my inner ear canal and then used blender and UGNX to create an IEM geometry. From there it was simple to get it sliced for the mars 3 printer. I totally hate that there’s not really a good opensource slicer for it on Linux. So design and slice on windows and then go back home to Linux until this last little camera part when I finally decided to do everything on Linux. FreeCAD for the design and the Linux slicer for the mars printer.
I would absolutely love for freeCAD to have complete feature and usability parity with MasterCAM, but it isn’t even kind of close to usability or functionality to the major corporate offerings.
Agreed. I had to wait months for v1.1 to drop because I was having graphic display issues on CachyOS. It still glitches out when I’m trying to select sketch surfaces and even crashes too often for my comfort. The promise is there, it’s just that the execution needs a little more time so I could finish migrating from Solidworks.
That’s what you get with a volunteer run initiative. If you want for freecad to get better, contribute.
I’m very lucky that I never used the commercial programs like fusion360, freecad feels like I’m a fumbling moron simply because I am, not because I need to get used to new software.
I like “I Like To Make Stuff” on Youtube, but it annoys the Hell out of me that he plugs Autodesk Fusion 360 all the time (to the point that he even sells his own course teaching how to use it). On the bright side, at least he uses Prusa instead of Bambu, but still, the Autodesk shilling is almost enough to make me quit watching his channel.
FreeCAD unfortunately seems to be suffering from “open source hell UX”. I just tried installing it and the UI is glitching with black sections when I move my mouse. I can’t even get to the point of using this software. Unfortunately, FreeCAD is clearly not ready for serious wide-spread usage.
I never bought a Bambu in the first place because all of this was foreseeable. Bambu costumers simply didn‘t care at the time.
That’s their market my brother bought 3 of them because he wanted to start a 3d printing business (with no additional planning so it did not last). Now I have one and my dad has one. I haven’t actually set mine up because I have my old Creator X clone dialed in and don’t really need anything more. Those two would probably never have gotten started if not for how easy the Bambus are. It took me a month to get decent results off my first printer and they were up and running in a few hours tops.
Those two would probably never have gotten started if not for how easy the Bambus are. It took me a month to get decent results off my first printer and they were up and running in a few hours tops.
I’ve got to admit, I’ve never understood that sort of issue. I’ve owned two 3D printers, a Monoprice MP Select Mini (bought back when it was the only ‘cheap’ printer in existence… holy shit, probably almost a decade ago) and a Creality Ender 3 V3 SE (because it was the best ‘cheap’ printer as of a couple years ago), and both of them gave me decent prints pretty much out of the box. After bed leveling, obviously, but without any other weird hardware adjustment or excessive experimentation with slicer settings.
I feel like the vaunted ‘superior ease of use’ of the Bambu stuff is overblown, but IDK, maybe I’ve just been lucky.
Bambu are not the only easy to setup anymore, but they did influence the trend.
They also have MakerWorld/Bambu handy that makes it really easy to start a print from anywhere.
So they are extremely easy to use.
But they are trying to leverage that to close their ecosystem and lock users in with shady practices…
My first printer was an FLSUN delta printer, can’t remember for sure, but I think it was a Q5? This was before Bambu had hit the scene really. That thing was an absolute cake-walk to setup.
You had the bottom frame with the build plate already attached, 3 legs with motors and belts already attached, top section that holds extruder and basically all electronics, and the hot end/effector assembly already assembled and 6 poles for arms. One bold in each end of the legs and the frame is done, one bolt at each end of the 6 poles to connect the effector to the carriages and the motion system is done, and then 2 JST/Molex like connectors and it’s done.
Slapped the SD card in, did the auto bed level, and was printing without issues in well under an hour, and it was the first time I’d been in the same room as a 3d printer.
Not to mention that when things eventually broke (usually due to my own mistakes), I could buy “off-the-shelf” parts to fix it, I didn’t have to reach out to FLSUN. Bambu being the “apple of 3d printing” has always been a red-flag to me, and honestly I feel like they really pushed this idea that other 3d printers are very difficult to get working when it just wasn’t true (by the time they hit the market).
My Ender 3 required a little bit of assembly (attaching the Z-axis frame and the control panel, along with associated wires), but my Monoprice one came completely assembled. It was literally just plug it in, check the bed for level (which wasn’t automatic, but also required little to no adjustment out of the box), feed in some filament, and then print the lucky cat gcode that came on the SD card.
Admittedly I started pretty early on with the commercially available ones and I’m sure things have improved since then but that was my experience. I was fighting it for weeks screwing with leveling and temps, I completely burned through one set of leveling screws and had to replace them before I gave up and took the extruder apart and constructed a jig to make sure the nozzles were even. After that I started getting better results. By comparison my brother was given the exact same model by a coworker of his and he gave up on it because he’s just doesn’t think about technical things the same way I do. When he got the bambu though he was able to just go with it because he didn’t have to really troubleshoot anything.
This goes beyond buying a printer. Most people buy a printer and then use it for years. I believe it’s necessary to get away from Bambu entirely.
That means no maker world. That means aggressively discourage others from buying bambu or using maker world. That means calling out online creators who promote Bambu or any of their products. And yeah, it means call out designers who put their STLs on MakerWorld.
I believe it is necessary to send a very strong message that Bambu that does not and will not own the 3D printing community.
SirEDCaLot
Oh yeah? Well I’m never buying one in the first place because these problems were obvious.
Same here, and I think it was also obvious to Jeff (from the OP), but I’m glad he bought one because he’s in a position to raise awareness of the issue.
I never let mine on the internet and use lan only using Orca slicer too so I don’t have to worry about Bambu Studio pushing an update to it which probably wouldn’t be an issue cause it was always garbage at connecting via lan anyway.
The thing is that they’ve dropped the ball. There are quite a few companies putting out printers that are objectively as convenient as a Bambu, for a third of the price, and others, like prusa and Snapmaker that have upstaged them with tool changers, which are way better than MMU machines, with negligible material waste, and orders of magnitude faster for multicolor. The maker scene is also alive and well- Vorons, VZbots, etc. allow you to make impressive machines, if you have some skills.
Can you recommend me a 3d printer or a few different ones to look into?
My applications will predominately be structural things, ie:
- Xbox controller attachments mount for my phone
- decorative guitar hooks
- custom shelving units
- gears for some electronic devices
- custom electronic cases
- figurines
- 3d toys (like mock guns, or just general odd things)
Snapmaker u1
Prusa core oneI heard that the Centauri Carbon by Elegoo is a really good enclosed CoreXY printer for the price. The Qidi Q2 is the upgraded version of the Q1 Pro (which lots of people love very much), and it’s s little more expensive than the Elegoo but it has additional features like a heated chamber. Those two would probably be my go-to picks if you want something good value.
However, if you have a higher budget, Prusa’s machines are very reliable, have great customer support, and are upgradeable too! If you get them as a kit you can also save a bit of cost. Their Core One+ prints very well. You also have the Prusa XL, which is large and expensive and has six toolheads if you need it.
Avoid printers by Bambu, as they have been locking down on their ecosystem and blocking third-party software and hardware, and as Jeff Geerling recently mentioned, they have also been very hostile to open-source developers. Additionally, I’ve heard that Creality is also pretty shady company with not-so-great QC.
Another important thing to consider is what filament you want to print with. The Centauri Carbon will work just fine with PLA, PERG, or similar, but engineering-type filaments need a heated chamber like that on the Qidi Q2. The Centauri Carbon also currently does not have a multi material unit while both Qidi and Prusa do
Creality hi combo
For structural things you NEED an enclosed printer, as most technical filaments need either heated chambers, air filtration or both. the Prusas (premium) centauri carbon, (budget), Snapmaker U1 (toolchanger), and which needs an addon cover, which in my opinion is right now the best bang for the buck. Sovol has teased a tool changer, and they make reasonably good and open source machines.
Shame on you for buying it in the first place. Writing was on the wall already.
Smelled funny from very early on. I wonder if now all those creators on the bambu payrole will pretend like nothing happened. Channels like CNC kitchen or Tom Sanladerer come to mind. But also 99% of all other channels, bambu seems to be sponsoring a shitton of channels. At least Jeff spoke out immediately. I suspect most will keep quiet.
When I bought my Bambu they were simply the best out there in just a bout every way. other company’s printers were unreliable and Prusa sat around on their laurels for years and even now have only partially caught up.
How were they the best about being open source / transparent? I never saw evidence of that.
They were the best at actually 3d printing. Which is what the device is for when you get down to it.
It’s a choice of values and future thinking. I understand the average user choosing Bambu, but for a 3d printing figurehead knowledgable about the industry and influencing the decisions of others, I think this was a poor choice initially. I bought a prusa probably around the same time he bought the Bambu, knowing full well that the Bambu had better performance specs. It’s not like I was getting blown out of the water with my 3d printing though. Every day I have less regrets about that choice.
“Just about”
F off with this stuff. Not everyone who bought one was fully aware of all the potential downfalls.
You should search this guy. I have heard time imagining he couldn’t have such foresight, but if that’s the case even more of a reason to unlike and unsubscribe - there are plenty of tech influencers that did and they are more likely to advise better for other products then.
Jeff from the OOP video? I will, I just mainly meant I got one a while ago and it seemed like a good choice at the time. I wasn’t into the hobby before that, and wasn’t well-versed in the topic. I’m sad to hear that it’s become this, but at the time it seemed like a good idea.
I’m sure many others were in the same boat. I just don’t think we should shame the some of us who didn’t do enough research before buying one.
is he often buying 3d printers?
I suspect how many printers he buys matters a lot less than the reach he has with his youtube channel for bambu’s financial reports.
Yeah, Jeff is one of the handful of seemingly decent, upright tech reviewers. He’s pretty trustworthy, so if he says something is crap, a lot of people are going to take it as gospel.
Have to admit I’m out of the loop. If I do have a Bambu printer, can I still use it in LAN mode with OrcaSlicer? Can I still use current firmware or do I need to downgrade?
This video from Louis Rossmann will get you caught up with the topic quickly: Bambu Lab: I’m reposting your code & I dare you to sue me. / Louis Rossmann / YouTube.com
I am still able to use OrcaSlicer on my Bambu A1 (which was bought before all these shenanigans) and mine is in v4.0.0.0 firmware with LAN only mode enabled. I believe newer machines require a special developer mode hidden deep in the settings to allow third-party software (stupid, I know).
It means you won’t be able to use Bambu Handy (not too bad for my use case though)
There are plenty of videos discussing the topic though. If you don’t have a Bambu printer yet, please don’t go out and buy one. If you’re stuck with one, put it to LAN only mode (or developer mode which is a special hidden LAN only mode on newer versions) to use OrcaSlicer
This guy modified the OrcaSlicer code so that you could still use it without being in LAN mode, over BL servers. Bambu sent him a c&d based on complete nonsense and he took the code down. Rossmann/FULU has since reuploaded it and told Bambu to come at him.
(please someone correct me if I’m wrong on this)
Doesn’t boycotting Bambu ignore that they are one of the biggest names in 3D printing with a product that is cheaper and better than their main competitor (Prusa). Frankly, I don’t think anyone is going to spend 2x the amount for literally a worse product (Bambu P2S @ $550 vs Prusa Core One @ $999)
I get all the arguments about the repairability and longevity of Prusa printers, but when someone is saving for months to buy a luxury item I simply cannot see them making all those sacrifices
Turns out, the 3D printing world is thankfully NOT a duopoly. You have Qidi (their Q2 is very competitive from what I have heard), Sovol (makes a lot of good budget printers), Elegoo (lots of people love the Centauri Carbon), and even Voron machines if you’re into those! And a majority of the competitors make good machines that can be on par, and often times cheaper, than Bambu’s machines.
Additionally, Prusa not only is better for longevity, but you will also get far better customer support (Bambu’s support isn’t great)
Bambu is no longer to be trusted as they have been hostile to the open-source community, have blocked third-party software that used to work and hardware that people have bought, and no, putting it under a hidden developer mode doesn’t fix the issue. There are additional restrictions like not being able to access your printer remotely without something like Tailscale!
And given that they already have RFID tags on their filaments, I believe it’s a matter of time before they become the HP of 3D printers and block third-party filaments from being used
TY I’m going to look into those. I appreciate the detailed response, hopefully someone releases a CFW for all the bambu users out there.
The RFID thing i feel like could be rectified pretty easily by just cloning the tag (hopefully), if nintendo couldn’t combat that for amiibos, i doubt bambu will be able to.
The RFID thing i feel like could be rectified pretty easily by just cloning the tag (hopefully)
I don’t want to give Bambu any ideas, but I think they could modify their plastic to require special settings (maybe it requires a lower temperature to print or something, needs a certain extrusion speed, etc.) and ensure that the print settings are automatically set depending on the RFID tag (this already exists, but they could easily disable the ability to manually change some of the print settings given they now have a monopoly on the slicer software), so putting the same RFID tag on another spool would cause the print to look bad. Of course, I believe this is unlikely, but it is still a possibility. At the very least, it will be annoying to rip out a tag from a Bambu spool, making third-party spools undesirable for users.
TY I’m going to look into those.
No problem!
I’m looking to upgrade my ancient Ender-5 Plus and have been eyeballing Anycubic for the excellent pricing on multicolor printers.
You seem pretty knowledgeable, any recommendations or things to stay away from?
I can recommend the Elegoo Centauri Carbon, a CoreXY and enclosed 3D printer that is raved on by reviews. If you will only print PLA, PETG, and maybe some ABS with a bit of tinkering with settings, it’s a nice option. It won’t be as good for engineering-type filaments, and
it doesn’t have a multi-material unit (yet, but don’t buy things based on promises!)The Qidi Q2 is an upgraded version of the Q1 Pro, the latter having been noted as an exceptional value. The Q2 is relatively new and doesn’t have too many reviews, but from the specs, it is a big jump from the Q1 Pro (it has a heated chamber, for example). The Q2 is also compatible with their “Qidi Box” multi-material unit, which could be something you are looking for given that you want multi-colour prints!
And of course, if you want the most reliable machine with the best customer service, you have Prusa’s Core One. It’s expensive, but you’re supporting a company that emphasises upgradeability and manufactures their hardware in Europe. It won’t be the best value though purely based on feature set, but if you like what Prusa stands for, that could be of value to you!
*correction, Elegoo does now sell the “Canvas” as an add-on for the Centauri Carbon. It looks like it has, as of writing this edit, sold out, so it is certainly very popular!
You can also get the Centauri Carbon 2 Combo, which includes the Canvas out of the box and has a very big hat to cover the tubes. Haven’t looked into it too much, so I’m not sure if there are any other changes.
Just as an update, Elegoo did finally release their multi material solution (canvas). I was ready to get my first printer a few months back but decided to wait for this and also to see what the reviews would be like for the Snapmaker U1 with its multiple heads that can do multi-material with much less waste.
All this stuff isn’t so fresh in my head anymore and I need to look into all this again but just wanted to point out Elegoo did release the solution now.
One more thing, looks like they also have a Centauri Carbon 2 Combo (which includes the Canvas) that can be ordered on their website. It has a funny hat to cover the long tubes!
Yeah I’m not gonna lie the way they designed this cooled me off the Elegoo a bit, if just because it looks a bit silly haha. But it’s still great, my step dad has the CC1 and all his prints are great. I’m more interested in making practical parts (for filmmaking) so really I don’t care that much about multi colour but I’m more interested in multi-material (for example so supports can be a different, cheaper filament) and QoL like auto-spool change, and I would still want a multi-colour here and there to make stuff for my kid.
It’s time I look at the whole current landscape again and see if it’s time to plunge ;p
The hat is very funny. I wonder if there will be 3D printable mods that use all that empty space for something (that said, in the 3D printing world, mods for the printers are ubiquitous and I wouldn’t be surprised if that is already in the works somewhere)
Oh, I didn’t know that! That’s pretty cool. It’s on pre-order right now, so it’s not properly released just yet, but it’s quite close to it! It also looks quite unique, being very tiny without an enclosure or a dedicated spool holder. Perhaps this will make it more reliable (like how the AMS Lite was reported to be more reliable than the enclosed AMS)
I think it went on sale and sold out immediately so back to “pre-order” and indeed also the CC2 is there. And good point about the reliability, but then I guess I need to get a filament dryer separately.
Ahh OK that makes sense. So it’s pre-ordering for the next batch, I see.
Stay clear of anycubic, they are moving in the same direction as bambulabs.
If you buy a Bambu P2S, you don’t really own it. Bambu can see and control each file printed, and are suing anyone that attempts to rectify that change.
If you buy a Prusa Core One, you do own it.
The boycott just makes financial sense.
Excuse my own ignorance on this issue, i was under the impression that in response to the BS they pulled last year they committed to always having the option for a fully offline (but potentially less-featured) printer?
The video covers that “option”.
The Jeff Geerling video also highlights how they have been very hostile to open-source developers, blaming OrcaSlicer for the security flaws of their cloud service (?!?!)
Fortunately, there are plenty of 3D printers that don’t pull the same BS. You of course have Prusa, but you also have companies like Qidi, Sovol, Elegoo, etc. that all have very strong competitors to Bambu’s printers.
I get your point, but when a part broke on my Prusa, I jury rigged it, downloaded and printed a replacement part and swapped out the broken part for the (improved) new one. With many other brands it would have been an expensive purchase and I would have had to wait for parts to arrive.
Haha was just about to buy one. Whats a good alternative hassle free printer that is still open?
Whats a good alternative hassle free printer that is still open?
AFAIK, Prusa is the leader in balancing openness, quality and ease of use.
Of course, since they’re in the EU and pay their staff living wages, they are also more expensive.
copied with some changes from another comment:
I can recommend the Elegoo Centauri Carbon, a CoreXY and enclosed 3D printer that is raved on by reviews. If you will only print PLA, PETG, and maybe some ABS with a bit of tinkering with settings, it’s a nice option. They do now sell the “Canvas” as an add-on for the Centauri Carbon. It looks like it has, as of writing this edit, sold out, so it is certainly very popular! The CC won’t be as good for engineering-type filaments though since it lacks a heated chamber.
The Qidi Q2 is an upgraded version of the Q1 Pro, the latter having been noted as an exceptional value. The Q2 is relatively new and doesn’t have too many reviews, but from the specs, it is a big jump from the Q1 Pro (it has a heated chamber, for example). It includes a heated chamber, so it works better for engineering-type filaments. The Q2 is also compatible with their “Qidi Box” multi-material unit.
And of course, if you want the most reliable machine with the best customer service, you have Prusa’s Core One. It’s expensive, but you’re supporting a company that emphasises upgradeability and manufactures their hardware in Europe. It won’t be the best value though purely based on feature set, but if you like what Prusa stands for, that could be of value to you!
Of course, Prusa will be the most open choice aside from something like a Voron kit, but Elegoo, Qidi, etc. will at least be more open than Bambu.
I believe the Elegoo CC uses a modified version of Klipper that isn’t open, so that might be a concern for you. After a bit of searching, I found OpenCentauri, a project that aims to bring an open version of Klipper to the Centauri Carbon: https://docs.opencentauri.cc/
I think Qidi is in a similar boat, but haven’t looked into it.
You might also want to check out Sovol, they make decently open printers too that are more affordable than Prusa.
edit: More searching later, looks like OrcaSlicer will work for both Qidi and the Elegoo CC. However, it does not work on the newer CC2, and the Qidi Box (and presumably the Elegoo Canvas) is also not supported. Something to keep in mind.
Thanks!
Snapmaker U1 has been great
I’ve saved so much money in purged filament it’s pretty much paid for itself at this point
Prusa or make your own corexy
I don’t keep up with 3D printer news or releases but I have a bottom of the line anycubic resin printer. Literally the cheapest I could find, and the thing is excellent. Prints great detail, invisible layer lines if I dial in the settings, really easy to setup and I can use any slicer, just load up the file on a USB stick and plug it into the printer and it goes.
I’ve really enjoyed my Elegoo printers. I have both an SLA and an FDM from them. Never really had any complaints in the few years I’ve had them.
Can I get a tl;dr for someone who isn’t into 3d printing (yet)? I like to know about companies to avoid and why, but it’ll still be a while before I get into 3d printing.
Bambu lab a while ago came out with printers and an ecosystem that was very easy to use compared to other printers for the price. However, there were a few red flags like proprietary parts, software which required the cloud, and DRM chips in filament. Bambu lab promised they weren’t gonna exploit any of that and that they will keep their printers and ecosystem open and all the red flags were just used to aid in user experience like automatic print settings for DRM chipped filament, easy to swap parts, and cloud monitoring and notifications. Despite the promise, they’re still a corporation and thus went against their word and closed off 3rd party slicers and firmwares so you must use their cloud and their software.
You do not own the printers, Bambu does. So now you cannot install third party firmware on your Bambu 3d printer or use a different slicer. Everything you do on your Bambu printer goes through their cloud unless you take countermeasures and use old versions of software and firmware before the lockdown happened and you completely block internet access to the printers.
People saw these big red flags early on and called them out on it saying they’re gonna lock down their ecosystem later on but people kept buying into Bambulab since they were so easy to use and got amazing prints out of them.
Tl;Dr, Bambulab released printers and software that were so easy to use for the price but came with many red flags. Bambulab ended up closing down their entire ecosystem so they have full control of the printers and you are at their mercy if you wanna keep using it.
You also forgot that their slicer was based on AGPL licensed Prusa Slicer and at first they tried to avoid releasing their source. In general a lot of their work was based on open source hardware and software and they closed it down.
They never promised to keep anything open. It never was open.
I’d wholly disagree with the assessment that the software requires cloud use or even their slicer. There’s still the perfectly viable LAN mode or loading it via SD card. Neither of which ever touch their cloud
I sold my x1c at a loss and got a core one when they announced Indx. It is less polished and I need to tinker. But it is ooensource all the way through and that is worth it. To me.
