(My Fedi Link Aggregator doesn’t appear to have cross-posting abilities yet, but I originally posted this to the Matrix community on lemmy.ml, please forgive me)
I hate having to make this post. I enjoy the Matrix software, I enjoy the fact that it’s open source, developed by a non-profit, and that the protocol is completely original rather than built on top of existing standards. The layout of Element, the flagship client, is great, and I have met a great amount of enjoyable people on the protocol. However, what I saw from the Matrix admin the other day was straight up abysmal and shockingly ineffective with their moderation, and their prolonged lack of action has me debating if I should move away from Matrix as a whole considering this happened under the flagship Matrix.org instance in what is their official and second-biggest room.
So about two days ago or so, I was seeing that there were multiple notifications coming from the Matrix HQ room, of which I had the notifications for all messages turned on. I decided to take a look as to what was being talked about there, and the chat was being inundated with images of CSAM by two accounts. While it did take a bit of time for someone to ping the admin account, the resulting response, or rather, lack of response, was simply unacceptable by any stretch of the imagination.
It took over an hour and a half of these two accounts constantly sending images of CSAM for the admin account to step in and ban the accounts, and delete the images in question. In this time the admin account was pinged nine times, with moderators of the chat also all being pinged at once in one message. After the accounts posting the CSAM were banned, it took at least an extra two hours for all the pictures of CSAM to be deleted, as the admins left some photos undeleted before users started notifying them that they still remained.
This is the official Matrix instance hosted by the Matrix Foundation. Assuming that the admin account operates off the same timezone the Matrix Foundation is based in, this all happened in the middle of the day around noon. This is the second biggest room on the official Matrix server, and likely, the second biggest room on the entire Matrix protocol with over 60K members. This room is often people’s first introduction to using Matrix, and for an hour and a half visitors to the room would be greeted with CSAM, and for an extra two hours, would be greeted with it if they were to simply scroll up in the message history.
This is beyond unacceptable. While I understand efforts to prevent CSAM from being posted to begin with can be an issue considering Matrix may not have the same tools to detect that content and delete it automatically, the fact that there was no action from Matrix moderation in their official room on their official instance for such an extended amount of time is inexcusable. I’ve since left the Matrix HQ room out of sheer disappointment, and am now considering if I should swap to using XMPP.
I really hope that the moderation on the official Matrix instance, especially within their official space, improves in the near future, but it honestly the fact that this kind of thing can happen this late into the room’s existence already speaks volumes to me about how ineffective the moderation likely has been prior to me using Matrix on a near daily basis, and while I understand that the protocol is decentralized and that this doesn’t reflect the administration of all instances, rooms, and spaces, it really has me questioning if I should be utilizing and/or supporting a protocol where the people behind it are stunningly ineffective at dealing with some of the most heinous, vile things someone can do or see.
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- Matrix has nothing to do with the Fediverse.
- Given that they’ll regularly push updates of Element to the Play Store without tagging releases on their repository, effectively leaving F-Droid users without releases and with a clogged up Play Store, I’m unsure why you’re surprised at the lack of sense of duty to users.
- There is no real three.
Ah, my bad, misunderstood Matrix as being part of the fediverse due to the decentralized nature of it and because I saw a cross-post regarding Matrix made to this community.
I’ll delete the post here and keep the original one up.
Matrix is federated though, so why wouldn’t it have something to do with the fediverse? Is that not the definition of the term?
The Fediverse uses the ActivityPub protocol. This allows everything in it to communicate with each other. Lemmy can’t communicate with Matrix since Matrix is a different protocol.
Although most things in the “fediverse” use that protocol, it is by no means the only one that can be used in order to be part of the fediverse
Doesn’t Fediverse mean “these applications can federate with each other”? How would you federate with Lemmy without ActivityPub?
Well, Mastodon and Lemmy both use ActivityPub, and they’re not entirely compatible. On the other hand, the diaspora*, Ostatus and Zot protocols are more or less compatible with ActivityPub, and are considered parts of the Fediverse.
Edit: My bad, according to this diagram it’s much more fragmented than I understood it!
I also don’t see how the term applies only to ActivityPub, wouldn’t any federated protocol ecosystem be a ‘federated universe’?
If there are multiple protocols, then that defeats the entire purpose of a protocol. If Matrix and ActivityPub are in the Fediverse, then Facebook and Twitter should be, too.
Facebook can’t talk with Twitter, so they aren’t federated with each other. Same goes for ActivityPub and Matrix. Fediverse doesn’t mean “has a federated protocol”. It means “these applications are federated with each other” (from what I understand).
I’d prefer it if the Fediverse was ActivityPub only, for convenience, but as I understand it any platform that supports federation is a part of the fediverse, no matter the protocol used and no matter if it can interact with other federated protocols.
Edit: If you think of the Fediverse as a multiverse instead of a universe it makes more sense.
Then that would be the activitypubverse
Given that they’ll regularly push updates of Element to the Play Store without tagging releases on their repository, effectively leaving F-Droid users without releases
Just compile it from source with every merge to main, because that’s the fun of it (I also use Arch testing btw).
We hate the AI and proof of work, yet DEMAND someone to moderate our inboxes. For free.
- an average lemming
I appreciate your frustration, but systems run by humans run at human speeds.
Public forums always have issues with trolls.
Matrix really is the kind and fluffy version of IRC.
The best solution is to spend time in spaces where you know the people, or the culture, already.
TL;DR
Ok bye.
I guess you have to take it for what it is. I see Matrix primarily as an IM network, and for that it works fine. I only use it for private communications with trusted friends, no random pedos can drop into our conversations.
In the past I’ve subscribed to a couple of interest-based rooms (music and movie genres), but other than that I don’t find Matrix’ forum or social features very compelling. Too much potential for anonymous randos lulz bombing any public room for my taste.
