• Irrational_exuberance@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    We have regulations for just about anything but not gender in Olympics?

    Olympic committee should put forward specific classification rules for woman and man in a binary sporting event.

    It’s a Olympic committee problem not an athlete problem. Don’t let them sweep this issue under the rug.

      • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Imagine a corrupt state really wants gold. Why wouldn’t they register a whole batch of males as female (or duplicate register as both sexes) wait 20 years then clean up the women’s events?

        • problematicPanther@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          so, the heart of your argument itself is sexist. Your argument is, basically, that a man is better than a woman at sports, just because he’s a man. Athletes at this level are insanely talented and fit. Some are even genetic anomalies, which explain why they can be so good at their sport. Simone biles is really small, which is why she’s so good at flipping.

          A female boxer at this level would decimate a male boxer who isn’t genetically selected for and who hasn’t trained his whole life to get to that level. Being male doesn’t make one good at sports.

          On the scale youre talking about, the government would be complicit in widescale corruption to rig a single event in an event where there’s no money involved for the winner, requiring several hundred people to be the athletes who might be good enough to go to the event, boatloads of money to train them, and even then, they might get one through the event if the athlete isn’t injured. All for what reward? A single relatively worthless gold medal?

          • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Your argument is, basically, that a man is better than a woman at sports, just because he’s a man.

            No. Women should always have the option to compete against men, (and prove they are better), if they chose to. But just look at world records if you need concrete proof that males have an advantage.

            Many sports there is no physical advantage and some (e.g. climbing) women have the advantage.

            On the scale youre talking about, the government would be complicit in widescale corruption to rig a single event in an event where there’s no money involved for the winner,

            Not a single event, this could be done for multiple events, even without the athlete’s knowledge. For the first decade only a few record keepers need to be in the conspiracy.

            All for what reward? A single relatively worthless gold medal?

            Why? You should ask cold war Russia.

              • TheFonz@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                The person you are responding seems uninformed on the topic of Imane and in spreading misinform.

                However, Russia does have a sordid history messing with international sports. Look up all the scandals in figure skating and also last year Olympics. I’m not sure why they do it. I think it has to do with projecting power on the world stage.

              • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago
                • Propaganda and ideological superiority of communism.

                • Cold war rivalry. Proxy battle.

                • National pride and unity.

                • International prestige.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                  3 months ago

                  So nothing important then.

                  Yes, you’ve definitely come up with a plausible reason why a Muslim country would be okay with a transgender athlete. Algeria is just desperate for international prestige. It will definitely do something or other.

                  • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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                    3 months ago

                    Yes, you’ve definitely come up with a plausible reason why a Muslim country would be okay with a transgender athlete.

                    Have I? Strange. I wasn’t asked that question.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          3 months ago

          What do you think they would achieve in any practical way by winning a bunch of gold medals?

          It’s the Olympics, not trade negotiations.

        • Todd Bonzalez@lemm.ee
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          3 months ago

          What the the absolute fuck are you talking about? This is some deranged paranoid nonsense.

      • Irrational_exuberance@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        We should expect Rules and regulations regarding a cis woman. The Olympic committee should either allow them as is or lay out specific rules. Decisions cannot be adhoc.

        • Veneroso@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          You realize that she’s a cis woman, right? Right?

          Or did you take the word from people on YouTube who talk about everything in a certain way?

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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            3 months ago

            It’s so fucking ridiculous to me that people are suggesting fucking Algeria has a trans athlete. Where next, Saudi Arabia?

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          3 months ago

          They have a specific rule: if your birth certificate and passport say you’re a woman, you get to compete as one.

          What rule do you think they should be using?

    • problematicPanther@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Except she was born a woman, raised as a girl and is a woman according to her passport from a country where being trans is illegal. So your argument is moot.

      • Irrational_exuberance@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        This the Olympics. What they do in their country is their problem. If trans was illegal in that country why would they want to highlight that issue by selecting that athlete. Makes no sense.

            • problematicPanther@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              I think you might have come full circle here. Being trans is her country is illegal. Why would such a country send a trans athlete? Because she isn’t trans.

              You aren’t talking about trans athletes, you’re talking about a woman who won a sport, and was demonized for being trans, and she isn’t even trans. The right wing had to make this shit up just so they would have a boogie man to be scared of.

        • Veneroso@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Hmmm maybe she’s not trans? Hmm?

          She’s a cis woman.

          Isn’t a little weird to focus on someone else’s genitals?

          Like really weird? Creepy even? Are you weird too?

      • Irrational_exuberance@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        9If that wiki page is correct, then chromosome testing should be done. Was the testing done? What were the results? If it was not done, then why not?

        How is women fighting women in a sport discriminatory against women?

          • Irrational_exuberance@lemmy.world
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            3 months ago

            Winding back to my first post. The Olympic committee has to decide. Decisions shouldn’t be adhoc.

            Athletes spend time and effort. They shouldn’t have to prepare for a competition where they will be expelled.

            • Chip_Rat@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              What makes you think these decisions were “ad hoc?”

              What do you think ad hoc means? And what part of “we checked out this athelete and she met all of our criteria to compete in womans’ boxing” don’t you get?

              What failing do you think the IOC commited in allowing a cis woman to compete in womens’ boxing?

            • Veneroso@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Feelings are great, let me know when you can think critically instead of regurgitate nonsense and repeat disproven or intentional vagueries.

              • Irrational_exuberance@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                So was it critical thinking that made you say that I needed testing? Obviously critical thinking is not your forte.

                Are you against regulations? That’s fine. I happen to support regulations.

                What “disproven or intentional vagueries” have I said?

                • Veneroso@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  You stated that this person was intersex, and that was a valid reason for her disqualification up and down this thread, before the mods intervened of course.

                  Continuing to believe in disproven theories, or concepts without imperical evidence, is clearly a logical falicy at best, or you are intentionally spreading misinformation because you are a Russian bot at worst.

                  Give the above assertions, yes, mental health, intelligence, and a prescription of “touching grass” at a minimum. Are you an athlete? Do you compete at an Olympic level? No? Then how does that impact you in any way shape or form? Did you ever watch the Olympics to have any kind of investment? Honestly that’s all a little weird.

                • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                  3 months ago

                  There are very simple regulations. You just don’t like the regulations. She was identified as biologically female at birth. It says so on her birth certificate. Her passport says she’s a woman. Those are the regulations whether you like them or not.

        • ivn@jlai.lu
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          3 months ago

          Why should testing be done over some allegation by an organization that’s not recognized by the IOC?

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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          3 months ago

          How do you not know that chromosomes don’t tell anything near to the whole story? You can be XX and look biologically male your whole life or XY and the opposite.

          I hate it when people think something as ridiculously complex as the human genome can be summed up so simply.

    • x00z@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Injecting testosterone is considered doping. So whatever their gender is, it’s not allowed. This makes trans people by default not eligible, regardless of what gender they’re playing as.

      Have a look at this list: https://www.antidopingdatabase.com/facts/prohibited-list

      My personal opinion is that trans people should just get their own part of the Olympics. Otherwise there is absolutely no way to keep it fair.

      • Irrational_exuberance@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        Whatever that decision is the Olympic committee should expand rules and regulations to cover edge cases. Decisions shouldn’t be adhoc. It’s not like we didn’t know about hunan genetic makeup before this Olympics.

        • x00z@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          Injecting performance enhancing substances like testosterone is not allowed. So the rule is already there. The reason for injecting them is irrelevant and not part of the rule. If we can simply use a counter argument to nullify a rule that doesn’t really make it a rule anymore. We should however add possible edge cases in the future, but that doesn’t mean that we should be using opinions in current rulings before finding something that suits everybody.

          Keep in mind that I’m not claiming anything about Imane Khelif.

    • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Make it 2 classes, open and restricted.

      Clear rules on who is allowed in the restricted class.

      Edit People down voting, do you not want a restricted class?

      • Veneroso@lemmy.world
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        3 months ago

        When it’s a cis woman you’re worried about against other cis women? No? I’m starting to think that we should have civics tests to use the Internet…

        • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          It seems that, going forward, a stricter definition and (private and respectful) testing of cis categorisation would reduce the pain and suffering (from armchair commentators like ourselves) of all future competitors at top levels of womens sports.

            • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              For the “men’s” event, yes. Weight is the only restriction. Women should be able to fight in the men’s event if they qualify.

              For the women’s classification there must be a clear line drawn somewhere between “has given birth” and “changed their name to Sue”.

              (I have no preference exactly where that line is drawn)

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                3 months ago

                The youngest Olympian this year is a 12-year-old from China competing as a skateboarder. The youngest ever was an 11-year-old who competed in gymnastics.

                Should we be letting those young girls know whether or not they count as girls through some sort of unspecified genetic test?

                Why do you think women need to be protected by having to prove they’re women? Do you really not get that tons of women would be discouraged from competing if they felt they had to satisfy some white knight’s genetic criteria?

                • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  Should we be letting those young girls know whether or not they count as girls through some sort of unspecified genetic test?

                  If there is no gender advantage there is no need.

                  Do you want to go further and say for skateboarding and gymnastics there should be no segregation?

                  Women do need segregation, for saftey more than anything. There needs to be a clear line otherwise these arguments will continue to occur.

                  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                    3 months ago

                    If there is no gender advantage there is no need.

                    So there’s no need?

                    Do you want to go further and say for skateboarding and gymnastics there should be no segregation?

                    So there is a need?

                    Women do need segregation, for saftey more than anything.

                    Women do not need your protection, nor have they asked for it.

              • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                3 months ago

                You are the one claiming she’s not a real woman. It’s up to you to define it.

                They already have an answer, you just don’t like it.

                • Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  I’ve not claimed anything about any individual.

                  I’m saying that a male/female checkbox on a passport is an inadequate test for a top level sporting event. The Olympic Committee need a better answer to avoid similar discussions in the future.

                  • Flying Squid@lemmy.worldM
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                    3 months ago

                    Fine. What is the test they should use? You don’t like their criteria, so what should the criteria be?

                  • zarkanian@sh.itjust.works
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                    3 months ago

                    I’m saying that a male/female checkbox on a passport is an inadequate test for a top level sporting event.

                    Why does there need to be a test?