It will be Project 2029 after this election. Yes, vote for the democrats, but if you think positive change will happen just by voting then you haven’t learned anything from leftist predecessors.
Actual, meaningful change can only happen when the state is at a legitimate state of strain, from outside revolutionary pressure, whether that be from mass worker strikes, protests, or other such upheavels of the status quo.
“Hey, if we let Republicans destroy our country, it will actually help us in the long run. Trust me bro.”
Yeah fuck that bullshit.
When did I say that? Never. I said Biden isn’t a positive change, you cannot get positive change electorally, so you need outside pressure.
Voting Democrat is what I am most likely going to do, I am just not delusional enough to think he will reverse Capitalism’s decay.
you cannot get positive change electorally
You certainly can, by actually fucking voting. Not in a single election, granted, but over time. Currently we’re choosing between fascist theocracy and democracy, because people who don’t want to live in a fascist theocracy won’t fucking vote. When they do vote, and fascist theocracy is no longer a viable position, we get to choose between corrupt capitalist democracy or social democracy.
I do vote. I have voted Democrat, and I will lilely still vote Democrat. Me voting Democrat will not make the Democrats move to the left, they will continue to be right-wingers because there is no leftist party and no reason for the Democrats to move left when they get their funding from large businesses and wealthy Capitalists.
We are choosing between fascism and liberalism. The reason this is an issue is not because “leftists don’t vote,”* it’s because the only parties that will ever be in power are parties that court wealthy Capitalists.
Even Social Democracy, while certainly better, would still repeat the same Capitalist decay. I would still vote for a Social Democrat over a Democrat, but I would still push for outside pressure like striking, unionizing, and straining the system so the will of the people will be upheld.
meaningful change can only happen when the state is at a legitimate state of strain
I took this to mean that you want the State to get worse so people will start a revolution. Maybe I misunderstood.
No, the state will get worse regardless. I want people to strike, unionize, organize, and pressure the state as best they can, and I do believe revolution is the best way to get there, but I don’t think the path there is to intentionally vote for bad policy so everyone suffers even more, lol.
Like I said, I will almost certainly be voting for Biden, but the idea that Biden is “slow, positive change” cannot be the prevailing thought process if we want actual change to occur. Biden is slow, negative change while Trump is fast negative change.
So the path forward is killing people? Because that’s what revolution entails. Once the killings start they tend to be indiscriminate and less about idealism than consolidating power. There’s a long history of revolution, and I can’t think of a single one that didn’t go off the rails and devolve into insanity. What makes this revolution you’re dreaming about different?
Revolution is the only way to meaningfully change whichever class is in power. It does not need to be violent, it can take on any number of forms.
Can you give an example of when a revolution wasn’t violent? Just one. Ever. In the history of humanity?
You should vote in every election so we don’t end up in this situation.
This. Leftist candidates won’t be viable until far right candidates aren’t. We’re choosing between “I’ll be a dictator” vs “democracy will continue” and the fascist is a likely outcome. The window has to move left to “democracy will continue” vs “maybe we can make things better”. If you’re holding out for a communist to be elected, that ain’t happening in our lifetime. The revolution is not coming. Revolution only comes when life is utterly intolerable and the capitalists know better than to let that happen.
Our only real hope is to shift things that way over generations.
no, if your “democracy will continue” involves supporting a genocidal maniac regardless of your other options, then your hands are just as stained as that of your government and that of the nazi-zionist state it’s supporting
to rephrase, if you a Leftist (socialist, communist, anarchist, not a liberal) stoops so low as to vote for a genocidal or imperialist government to preserve fascist and inhumane values you don’t share, you’re just as responsible for the policies these governments enacts, be it land-grabbing, systemic discrimination, imperialist and genocidal foreign policies and the rest
those same policies would later be used against you, as when there’s no outer group left to stomp on, they’ll turn on you, case in point, draconic spy laws once used against brown ppl, muslims and other foreigners are now being used against americans
revolutions aren’t painstakingly planned, you prepare for it and embrace it when it happens
to op above, you must be quite priviledged to be in a position where “life isn’t utterly intolerable” that little minority…
This take is so dumb it should win an award.
You have two options:
- Supports genocide, isn’t a dictator, relatively progressive compared to predecessors.
- Supports genocide, wants to become a dictator, moved our country back 50 years, would probably end democracy if elected, currently in a criminal trial for paying a porn star he cheated on his wife with hush money then fraudulently claiming it as legal expenses.
If that choice isn’t obvious to you, you are actually a fucking moron. Abstaining is just as bad as voting for the dictator.
Your delusion: social upheaval where workers unite and form a glorious socialist revolution where we fill the reflecting pool with billionaire blood and everyone just magically agrees to get along afterwards.
What actually happens: millions suffer and die under the thumb of local fascist warlords while foreign powers balkanize the US to ensure we never get anywhere close to the progress we have now.
Quite a few people didn’t pay attention in history classes and it shows. The French Revolution is a pretty good litmus test actually – if you’ve studied it, you know that what came after killing the royalty and rich was chaos that no one benefited from. If you haven’t, you just think guillotines are based and that’s it.
genocide this year so genociding continues to be a thing
- weak liberals who are too comfortable in their ill-gotten wealth and would do anything to protect their falling apart fascist state
