To this day, she remembers the racing thoughts, the instant nausea, the hairs prickling up on her legs, the sweaty palms. She had shared a photograph of herself in her underwear with a boy she trusted and, very soon, it had been sent around the school and across her small home town, Aberystwyth, Wales. She became a local celebrity for all the wrong reasons. Younger kids would approach her laughing and ask for a hug. Members of the men’s football team saw it – and one showed someone who knew Davies’s nan, so that’s how her family found out.
Her book, No One Wants to See Your D*ck, takes a deep dive into the negatives. It covers Davies’s experiences in the digital world – that includes cyberflashing such as all those unsolicited dick pics – as well as the widespread use of her images on pornography sites, escort services, dating apps, sex chats (“Ready for Rape? Role play now!” with her picture alongside it). However, the book also shines a light on the dark online men’s spaces, what they’re saying, the “games” they’re playing. “I wanted to show the reality of what men are doing,” says Davies. “People will say: ‘It’s not all men’ and no, it isn’t, but it also isn’t a small number of weirdos on the dark web in their mum’s basements. These are forums with millions of members on mainstream sites such as Reddit, Discord and 4chan. These are men writing about their wives, their mums, their mate’s daughter, exchanging images, sharing women’s names, socials and contact details, and no one – not one man – is calling them out. They’re patting each other on the back.”
and no one – not one man – is calling them out.
I’ll be willing to bet that getting in between a male and the female they are looking to fuck has been one of the most probable ways of getting your ass kicked and possibly killed in nature since forever.
So it’s a kind of primal cowardice that’s pretty hard to overcome.
This is what happens when you let your son’s role models be sociopathic pieces of shit like the Tate brothers, Fresh and Fit, and the assorted fucking losers on Youtube who still use “SJW” like it’s 2015.
Misogyny and misandry, two unhappy twins; one celebrated, the other shunned. Both found their way into this thread.
That’s enough internet for today I think.
Except they’re not at all the same, you understand that, right? Misogyny is build upon layers of social and systemic discrimination
I invite you to look into the term misandry some more: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misandry
I just like that she calls out and lumps in 4chan with Reddit and Discord—because that’s really what’s it’s become now. I mean there are dicks lurking and active in any corner of the Internet but those platforms in particular are obviously mainstream enough or known to harbor all kinds… especially the kind she talks about.
There are some pretty awful takes in these replies. It seems a fair number of men here at least vacation near the “manosphere”.
no one – not one man – is calling them out. They’re patting each other on the back.
being surprised by this makes no sense, it’s like expecting people at a Hitler convention to call each other out for liking Hitler
edit: if you expect anything but the worst from users of reddit, discord, and 4chan, you’re insane.
deleted by creator
Pro tip - I’ll absolutely snitch on the guys I know that you probably shouldn’t date. Maybe you have a male friend that’s the same.
My sister dated a sociopath. He was a master manipulator and cheated on and with every woman he wanted. This afgan muslim wad the biggest hypocrit I ever met.
He preyed on young women. Especiaally the vulnerable ones who suffered from loneliness, insecurities and/or depression. His charms did not work as well on me, because I’m not attracted to men. He did not like me and tried to ridicule me, cross my boundaries and set up my sister against me. Tried to slut shame me and implying I slept around in engineering. Trust me… no amount of axe bodyspray combats the overfilled lecturing room in summer. You could feel and taste the smell of men when entering. I have sensed every pheromone a man can produce, and none has a positive effect on me. And even if I did fuck every guy in engineering, what’s his point? He believed in polygamy. If he gets to fondle an theatre of tits, I should be able to ride every dick I want (with consent ofc).
My best friend was a guy. And the sociopathic pig would tell him misogynistic bs. About how to play multiple women at a once. My friend did not tell me anything about what the swine said. After all, bro’s before ho’s. And I was apparently the ho rather than the bro.
Anyhow. My warnings weren’t taken seriously, and 3 people I knew have had affairs with him. 2 of which were barely 19 and had a history of parental neglect and fear of abandonment.
Had my friend bothered to tell me, I may have had enough to convince my sister at least to cut ties with him. Instead, she become more and more miserable and doubtful of herself. Trying to break it off, but not being assertive enough to enforce it. Thank our crappy mother for that.
The pig also had a lawsuit against him for sexual msiconduct. He was a taxi driver and an incident had taken place where two women left his cab and hit the front of his car with a heel. Leaving a dent. Or so the story went. His brother lost his medical licience because there were too many sexual harassment claims against him in his dental practice. His family is known for misogyny. Fucker lied about his name because of it and refused to introduce her to his family. Reason he gave had to do with his muslim backround, but in reality, he was already engaged to another woman.
I hope she is okay. I doubt it though.
My sister recovered from the ordeal. Woman no. 3 cut ties with us and we don’t know what happened. We assume she did so out if shame. Which isn’t surprising because they all had an affair with the same guy. Fucking dumbass. Woman no. 2 was the most vulnerable, but is doing well now. Being disgusted with herself for how she acted.
I am no longer friends with the guy I used to hang out with almost daily. After he kept saying misogynistic bs and telling me he could rape me while I wouldn’t be able to do defend myself.
Men cannot be counted on for snitching, even if someone’s safety depends on it.
This just reminded me of the wonderful responses from these guys.
the hairs prickling up on her legs
Some incel somewhere: “WTF IS THIS WOKE BULLSHIT!?!?!?!”
It’s insane to me that the greatest threat to women is dating men. Who the hell is raising these guys? Even in my worst days I never blamed women for my dating problems - I blamed myself. Therapy helped with that problem though. But the motives of mass misogyny are just opaque to me. Sort your shit guys, don’t be a bastard.
Yeah, I tend to think that men who’d want dating women would be easier would form an organization and lynch those fucks.
It’s insane to me that the greatest threat to women is dating men
Yet men are the leading cause of death for women. You’re correct, it is absolutely insane, but until those types of men can sort out their fragile masculinity problems here we are unfortunately.
What? That’s not correct at all. The leading cause of death for women is heart disease, which accounts for approximately one in three female deaths each year. “Men” or any derivatives thereof on most statistical lists are below even common mosquitoes (malaria) as causes of death. A woman is more likely to be killed by their own kidneys than by a man.
Don’t spread needless culture war scare bullshit.
Source: The goddamn CDC.
The internet is raising them. They aren’t going outside and saying these things where at least one man would smack him upside the head in order to correct bad behavior. They aren’t going outside and trying this shit on women who will reject their bad behaviors. Or worse running to legal trouble for harassing or assaulting women. Whereby it used to be the guy would self reflect and realize he’s doing it wrong.
The internet is telling them stories about how these behaviors are what the “alpha” males are doing to successfully get all the women. What is the bullshit stat? Like 1% of top men get 99% of women or some stupid shit.
The internet lies to them, painting a dark twisted world. And then these guys go out to the real world to treat women in the way they think the world is some kind of dark world. They get extreme negative experiences. Which to them proves that the internet was right about everything.
They aren’t going outside and saying these things where at least one man would smack him upside the head in order to correct bad behavior.
Expecting men to beat the shit out of people doing the “wrong” things is also a really big problem and isn’t a solution either.
I remember in the late 80s when i was really young hearing about gay bashing as if it was a perfectly okay thing to group to and go do.
I remember people talking about Freddie Mercury coming out as gay and not feeling comfortable asking why that is a problem for fear of being targeted myself.
I don’t have any answers
In the 80s and 90s we always called our friends gay but to me it was just friendly ribbing.
One ex friend we did beat the fuck out of for hitting his girlfriend.
beat the shit out of people
It’s not literal. You seriously don’t know what social conditioning is???
gay bashing
I have no clue how you derived homophobia from this.
This is either a troll or poor reading comprehension.
edit: I just saw your other replies. You’re being deliberately obtuse to derail the thread.
Make people feel bad about who they are through intimidation and violence. It’s not okay unless you are “over if there good ones”
“It’s not literal!”
Cool cool cool
Meanwhile concentration camps are in vogue
A rapist and convicted felon is the POTUS
And Andrew Tate is the new young mans hero.
Yeah im so unhinged
This is unhinged and nonsensical, either you have poor English reading comprehension or this is a troll post. I’ll let mods decide.
Care to explain how I’m unhinged?
Speaking of poor reading skills, im specifically referring to physical abuse as a form or deterrent.
Maybe you havent experienced physical abuse, but i have.
I felt like I understood your original post, so I hope you’re okay if I try to bridge the misunderstandings? If at any point I misunderstood, let me know.
They aren’t going outside and saying these things where at least one man would smack him upside the head in order to correct bad behavior.
Expecting men to beat the shit out of people doing the “wrong” things is also a really big problem and isn’t a solution either.
I feel like this boils down to: having men use physical violence to coerce other men into “proper” behavior isn’t the solution. The scare-quotes around “wrong” imply the term being potentially misused.
I remember in the late 80s when i was really young hearing about gay bashing as if it was a perfectly okay thing to group to and go do.
You note that groups used violence against gay people in the 80s, and that it was considered acceptable. I read this and the next sentence as being an example, provided to support your first sentence.
I remember people talking about Freddie Mercury coming out as gay and not feeling comfortable asking why that is a problem for fear of being targeted myself.
The fear of violence was such a severe deterrent, that even questioning why being gay was “wrong” could have led the group to assume you were gay and thus become violent against you.
I don’t have any answers
Although you don’t believe in corporal punishment, you don’t know what the answer would be. (Which is totally fair, IMO.)
Is that the gist of what you meant?
If so, I suspect people lost track of your point around the term “gay bashing.” Most people these days probably associate that term with someone speaking poorly of gay people, which sucks, but is relatively tame compared to what I thought you meant - which was, groups that went around literally bashing, as in physically attacking, gay people. (Which was, and still is in some places, an absolutely real thing.) It’s possible that this misunderstanding derailed the rest of your comment, leading readers away from your point.
Thank you, that’s a pretty fair assessment.
This was what I took away from his comment as well. His personal experience with physical abuse likely lead him to interpret “slapped upside the head” in a more visceral way than I think OP intended. The jump in ‘rhetorical spiciness’ tends to prime the reader a certain way. He expressed his doubt and confusion but only after bringing up a seemingly unrelated (and potentially bigoted) example.
Nobody understands a thing you’re saying, I think you don’t grasp the concept of “context” like so many internet drones. I’m blocking you now, have a good day
Lemmy is such a friendly place…
I say let it stand as a testament. Incels bring out the big guns when you get too close to reality. I’ve noticed this pattern over the years.
The propaganda is something to behold. This is the kind of thing young men are being bombarded with.
I say let it stand as a testament.
I know you’re joking around, but I’ll take advantage of the moment to rant on a tangent for a bit. I legit saw this attitude spreading through the moderator space on reddit a decade ago, as they started getting influenced by users to let slide more and more horrible takes so that “the community can judge for themselves” as tender, shut-in lads and lasses who were trying to manage our largest discussion forums without pay were suddenly being bombarded from all sides by people trying to subvert the subreddits and control them for their own agendas.
And largely, it worked. Many, many times I’ve seen subreddits and forums on other sites fall because the mods got compromised, the other mods got too burned out or emotional to keep doing their tasks, and as a result the conversations started allowing more and more incel-bait, tired tropes of persecution and misogyny, foulmouthed, delusional teenagers who have never left their houses suddenly making profound statements about the state of gender dynamics, and a whole ARMY of foreigners pretending to be normal Americans or Europeans on both sides of every argument, just screaming their nonsense louder and louder until the only users left were the ones who agreed with the delusion. I wish people understood that some of the most famous horrible subreddits and sites started as jokes and were gradually co-opted and hijacked to become unironic hate-spaces.
This was the plan all across the internet and it worked. We are all so tired of every argument and issue that most people don’t engage anymore. We don’t even try to correct anyone because we assume either other users know better, or will sort it out for us, or who cares anyway, what’s even real? Just tune out, keep scrolling.
So now I say, no. We need to be far less tolerant of intolerance, we need to burn them out of their nests and dens. Reddit didn’t go nearly far enough with banning the incel subs, they should have banned incel ideology, they should have banned redpill rhetoric entirely. I once would have balked at that kind of “censorship” but I’m now watching my nation dissolve under the stupidest movement ever created and I’m somewhere between shaking with rage and shaking with exhaustion.
Redpill, incel, gender-normative bullshit is violence. It seeks to hurt men by forcing them into the mold of “masculinity” (and defines that masculinity, in some places, in a very toxic fashion) and we all know how it hurts women.
It needs to be fought back, and as furiously as fascism.
This sentiment is why i commented. It does need to be pushed back against. Thank you
it’s so easy.
I feel like I’m in a different universe to most people. Only chance I get to call anyone out for anything is littering and playing music loudly in public. Honestly feels like confirmation bias, but I’m sure I’m wrong.
If it makes you feel any better, I can ping you next time I encounter misogyny on Lemmy? It’s far less toxic than a lot of online places, but it’s definitely got corners where offensive takes get upvoted.
I mean, if you went to 4chan you could presumably call out more, but it’d be kind of like yelling into a hurricane. Toxicity is self-concentrating in really anonymous online spaces.
IRL bigots tend to hide their shit from non-target non-bigots.
Toxicity is self-concentrating in really anonymous online spaces.
The cause of and consequences of The Man-o-Sphere in a nutshell. People get drawn in by the promise of gamified easy answers to relationships (via PUA community, evangelist trad-life influencers, and other self-help gurus). But it’s a bait-and-switch, with “advice” drifting from “how to find an easy relationship” into “why women are awful and you should hate them.”
99% of men are disgusted by this type of thing, but with billions of people and instant communication. this type of thing is bound to pop up. and because normal people aren’t looking at this type of thing, they’re echo chambers of degeneracy. but it really bothers me when people use sex based generalizations for things like this. millions of people isn’t very much on a global scale.
I think it is more widespread than you imagine. If admiration for Andrew Tate is an indicator of seriously misogynistic attitudes, then the statistics (for the UK) are quite shocking:
Nearly a quarter (23%) of 15-16-year-old boys have a positive view of Andrew Tate compared to only 10% of girls at this age.
Furthermore, one-third of dads (32%) view Andrew Tate favourably compared to 10% of mums. This positive view is even higher among young dads: 52% of 25-34-year-old dads compared to 19% of mums.
Additionally, 49% of 25-34-year-old dads believe their child has a positive view of Andrew Tate.
Source: https://www.internetmatters.org/hub/research/research-into-online-misogyny-and-image-based-abuse/
Man these numbers are horrific we need to bring back McCarthyism but for these people
Are you or have you ever been a supporter of Andrew Tate
bring back McCarthyism
Fuck outta here with that authoritarian bullshit. You truly want to hold millions of people responsible for falling victim to Zuck getting high off Cambridge Analytica and globalizing the flood-gates of shit spewing? Content serving algorithms have torn communities apart, promoted violence and hate world-wide for most of the past 20 years. That’s plenty of time for ‘re-education’ and here we are reaping the benefits.
Hurt people hurt people. Human billionaires hurt society. Generational wealth oppressing generational trauma. Authoritarianism leads to the same power imbalance, and purging ideologies is anti-human.
Not when the ideologies in question are anti-human it’s not
Maybe my opinion is influenced by my geographic position. I never would have imagined that many people of my generation support him. Where I live, saying you like Andrew Tate would be like saying you support Putin, maybe worse.
99% of men are disgusted by this type of thing
wow. naive.
Yeah, these days I’m thinking it might actually be a double digit percentage that’s onboard. The manosphere has enough reach to affect elections now, which I did not see coming.
I get called a conspiracist for linking the actual reports and investigations into this, but this was by design.
Almost every authoritarian/fascist uprising on record has started with the indoctrination and isolation of young, sexually insecure, lonely men who feel disenfranchised with the system because they’re depressed, horny and have mixed-up ideas how to be liked by others. It’s incredibly easy to peel off a massive chunk of this population and get them to start blaming the government, society broadly, science, knowledge, literally anything but their own need to improve their social skills and gain some emotional intelligence.
These are our dumbest, angriest, loudest men, and thus become the major influencing factor on their peers, online and off. They set the tone and everyone else just kind of goes along with it, or leaves them to grow and gain power in peace.
This shit is why I think regular therapy sessions should be a mandatory part of high school for everyone. Kids need better tools to deal with the shit they’re going through.
i did. saw it in 2016 and had a hunch before that.
the only thing that shocks me anymore is how naive most of you are.
As a man, it’s also reasonable to say this is nearly non existent among women. Does it happen? Of course. But not nearly to the scale it happens among men.
It’s moreso a matter of semantics. If someone says “Men are disgusting”, you don’t have to take it literally. It’s conveying the meaning that there is a large enough amount of men that are doing this that it is a massive problem in nearly every woman’s life. The saying would be a bit less valid if it was so extremely prevalent. But as it stands, I can go up to just about any young woman, and they more than likely would have (at least) been sexually harassed by a man.
So sure, with as many people as there are, it’s “bound to pop up” but saying it that way seems to undermine just how prevalent it is. And correcting a statement that expresses the sentiment that this is a large problem by saying “But not all men are bad” is counterproductive. They are talking about the systematic issue among men. You could instead respond with “Yea, we need systematic changes” or something along the lines that address the concern they are raising.
But as it stands, I can go up to just about any young woman, and they more than likely would have (at least) been sexually harassed by a man.
Thats’s most certainly accurate, since in the US, 1 in 5 women have been raped over the course of their lives.
So, Sexual harassment would be far more likely. I’d guess, 4 in 5 women, if not 5 outta 5.
When I said it’s “bound to pop up” I was talking specifically about the online communities mentioned. I don’t disagree that there are systemic problems but I think that they were focusing on a specific and small subset of a larger problem.
I might be wrong about this, correct me if that’s so. but because most men aren’t rapists, yet a surprisingly high number of women get sexually assaulted/raped, It seems like the problem is not that most men are predators, but that our society is letting the minority that are get away with it repeatedly.
because most men aren’t rapists, yet a surprisingly high number of women get sexually assaulted/raped, It seems like the problem is not that most men are predators, but that our society is letting the minority that are get away with it repeatedly.
It’s much muddier than that. Most cases of rape are someone the victim trusted. And most of those cases don’t ever get reported to authorities. So there are many men may have taken advantage of a woman, and that woman see’s him as an abuser, but nearly nobody in that mans life even knows about this. The victim may stay silent for any number of reasons. There are almost definitely cases like that involving men you know, but are unaware of what they did. As for the solution to these cases? Societal norms need to change. Consent needs to be required every time no matter what. There should never be pressure for sex, and peers should not encourage pressuring a woman into sex. Instead, the man will say the person stepping in is “removed blocking” when in reality they’re defending someone who doesn’t want to have sex with them. Men will back up other men in an attempt to help their bro “get their dick wet”. They will get women drunk in hopes they will have reduced inhibitions, or perhaps so drunk they don’t even remember the night. This is not as simple as “lock up the bad guys” when very few cases of rape involve being snatched up off the street.
When I said it’s “bound to pop up” I was talking specifically about the online communities mentioned.
Gotcha, I misunderstood what you were saying. I do still disagree that groups like that are bound to pop up, at least not as much as they are right now. I think womanizing groups are far more common than dedicated racist groups online. Racism has taken a massive downward trend over the last hundred years. Of course, it is not fixed, very far from it. But I also think it is undeniable that racism is less of a problem than it was 50 years ago. That is the kind of societal change we want. If the internet were around 50 years ago, the insane number of group chats dedicated to racism would have been far larger than they are now. Bringing awareness to these issues, and especially men standing up to other men, is what will help bring a decline to the number of vocal sexist pigs and their echo chambers.
It’s the same as everywhere, those who scream the loudest get heard
To be honest I’ve lost interest in anything but one nighters and I’m a guy every time I’ve got into a serious thing I got cheated on eventually.
So yeah works both ways I guess.
I am an older guy and all my relationships were brief and so troublesome that being in a relationship seems far more troublesome than it is worth.
If anyone is unsure why women would chose the bear…
Most young men and women choose not to date. “Choosing the bear” isn’t limited to one gender. And yes, I understand it, at least partially. It’s rough out there.
Social division as a result of people not socializing anymore has driven a massive wedge between the diverse and beautiful spectrum of people who used to find appreciation and joy in each others differences.
Now every time you meet someone with different feelings than yourself, the internet has trained you to feel attacked.
This is why we’re all alone, we’re afraid of being attacked, and somehow our definitions of what an attack is has been radically subverted.
ITT: incels whine about not getting laid.
i’m sure that’ll improve your chances and make women respect you. lol. losers.
EDIT: i’d also love to point out that i was single briefly about 5 years ago (pre pandemic) and had no problem getting laid. it was like it had never been easier. i think most young men are just pathetic.
You just kind of come across as a dick in a different way here.
my online persona is very much an asshole. i think most people suck and i’m not trying to make any friends. i have plenty IRL, and most of them think very highly of me.
If all you do is call people losers without offering the tiniest bit of constructive advice people are going to (rightly) downvote you and reply with mean comments and you won’t get any closer to your stated goals of teaching them to “overcome adversity” or whatever.
Try adding constructive advice along with the put downs, it should help
sure! let’s start:
- buy guns.
- don’t be an idiot.
- toughen up, buttercup.
deleted by creator
Well, I applaud your intellectual honesty, at least, even if I question your priorities.
people are too coddled in online leftist spaces. it leads to misinformation, apathy, and a general pacifism that will not solve anything.
Maybe you suck too?
You seem very humble, after all.
i have a confidence that most of you would be jealous of. but yes, maybe i do suck. there is such a thing as a happy middle ground. i strive for that and, IRL, i usually do a pretty good job of it. here though? i’m going to give most of you a hard time because you deserve it. yall need to learn to deal with adversity.
we are not living in a utopia. we probably won’t, but if you want one for the people that come after us, you need to toughen up.
It is horrible how some people treat others, but it is not my responsibility or prerogative to police others actions. There’s nothing wrong with being single, and not dating is a personal choice which I would never criticize, but blaming 50% of the population for the actions of a minority is the definition of bigotry.
It breaks my heart that things are becoming more hostile and hateful. I hope I live to see the pendulum swing the other way.
This seems to be a pretty narrow view point. They’re not asking you to police other actions, but rather voice your disapproval when you see it. Nobody can control the actions of others, but it is also undeniable that men are more likely to listen to other men. To see something, and sit idly by, is comparable to supporting the action. If you do not at minimum vocalize your discontent, then you are fine with it being done around you.
Your current suggestion is that a minority of men harass 50% of the population with no societal repercussions? When that 50% that’s being harassed is like “Hey, we need help from the other 49% to bring about a societal change” your first response is to call them a bigot? In order to substantially change the harassment being done, everyone needs to step up.
i hope i live to see a 50% decrease in human population, so i’m 100% with her.
i hope i live to see a 50% decrease in human population
What kind of person are you?
a rational one.
would you prefer we continue to deplete the world’s resources to build our magnificent dystopia and leave a hellscape in our wake?
