This is such an insane statement. In biology almost any kind of sexual behavior has been observed including male species who carry the young in their body (sea horses), species that are both male and female, species that change gender during a lifetime, species without gender etc etc. Literally anything goes in the biological world.
While true, there are some established standards. And amongst mammals, the standard is always that males take care of food, protection and territory defense (if applicable) while females give birth and primarily take care of children. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. But for most of the existence of the human species, it was just like that - males were taking care of food and protection, while females were doing the “safer” jobs, like childcare of gathering.
Yes, biology is complex, but the case of humans is rather clear-cut. The only reason why we argue about this is because we have evolved to a point where we’re no longer that reliant on biology - that does not change the fundamentals tho.
Exceptions imply that these roles are not strictly inherent to animal (including human) behavior. If colonizing countries weren’t all patriarchal, I’m sure we would’ve seen many more exceptions.
These exceptions exist for a reason, whether or not they fit your personal worldview.
But for most of the existence of the human species, it was just like that - males were taking care of food and protection, while females were doing the “safer” jobs, like childcare of gathering.
This is just a bad argument, and has been used to justify all kinds of awful things. why would the fact that humans have always done things a certain way imply that that’s a good thing? Is slavery a good thing? rape? colonization? genocide?
Rigid gender roles have only truly served half of the human population. Even so, men have also suffered in other ways because of them. Why shouldn’t we work to better everyone’s lives, in as many ways as we can manage?
Yes, biology is complex, but the case of humans is rather clear-cut.
This is demonstrably false. Biologists have known as much for… quite a while. Please consider informing yourself before making claims about important topics.
These exceptions exist for a reason, whether or not they fit your personal worldview.
Yes, these do exist - but that still doesn’t mean it’s a counterpoint to the fact that the “status quo”, if you will, is what I described earlier.
This is just a bad argument, and has been used to justify all kinds of awful things
Okay, but that doesn’t mean the argument doesn’t hold in this particular case.
why would the fact that humans have always done things a certain way imply that that’s a good thing?
Nobody talks about it being good. I have made zero judgement about if that is a good or bad thing - it’s just a thing. But I feel that the “old times”, where humans were much much less self-conscious and organized, is a solid indicator to how we would act if we were more living off of instinct instead of societal pressure.
Rigid gender roles have only truly served half of the human population. Even so, men have also suffered in other ways because of them. Why shouldn’t we work to better everyone’s lives, in as many ways as we can manage?
I don’t think you understood my comment. I’m not saying that gender roles are a good thing. What I AM saying is that it is, from a biological standpoint, very easy to determine who is a woman and who is not. I’m not saying that every woman should do “womanly” things and every man should do “manly” things.
This is demonstrably false.
No, it’s really not, but I do agree that finding factual information regarding this topic is nearly impossible these days as it’s a topic completely enveloped by political bias and everyone tries to bend the facts as much into his desired direction as possible. However, from my viewpoint and some discussions I had with people who are very well versed in that topic, the human is a rather traditional mammal that also behaves like one - including that only women are able to give birth to children.
You are just making this up as you go along. I can disprove your theory by the animal living in my house: cats live solitary lives and therefore do not divide tasks between genders. The idea that females primarily take care of children makes no sense since in most species (incl. most mammals) kids grow up pretty quickly. In most animals there is no sharp distinction of tasks between males and females.
cats live solitary lives and therefore do not divide tasks between genders
??? No they’re not? Cats do raise their young what the fuck. The female is also the only one that can ensure the kitten survive as she’s the one producing the milk which is necessary. Male cats usually don’t give a fuck about the kitten and just bring food for the mother.
The only exceptions to this is lions (which is sorta a cat), where females do everything and the males are just lying around.
The idea that females primarily take care of children makes no sense since in most species (incl. most mammals) kids grow up pretty quickly … In most animals there is no sharp distinction of tasks between males and females
Very cool you think so. Yet it’s the case. I don’t know how I can prove something that obvious to you. Just pick any common mammal you might find outside and there’s a 95% chance that the female animal will take care of the child.
You seem to misunderstand me (deliberately??). Obviously female cats carry and nurse the young, but they also hunt, protect their territory etc (I.e. all the tasks you ascribed to males in your previous posts), because they live solitary.
Are you trying to seem more stupid than you are right now? Is a human with two arms not the standard because there are a small amount of people with more or less? Is a cat with a tail no longer the standard because there are cats without tails?
A standard is a standard if the majority of cases fit it. If 95% of all humans had brown hair, that would be the standard. Period.
This is such an insane statement. In biology almost any kind of sexual behavior has been observed including male species who carry the young in their body (sea horses), species that are both male and female, species that change gender during a lifetime, species without gender etc etc. Literally anything goes in the biological world.
While true, there are some established standards. And amongst mammals, the standard is always that males take care of food, protection and territory defense (if applicable) while females give birth and primarily take care of children. Are there exceptions? Absolutely. But for most of the existence of the human species, it was just like that - males were taking care of food and protection, while females were doing the “safer” jobs, like childcare of gathering.
Yes, biology is complex, but the case of humans is rather clear-cut. The only reason why we argue about this is because we have evolved to a point where we’re no longer that reliant on biology - that does not change the fundamentals tho.
Wrong
Exceptions imply that these roles are not strictly inherent to animal (including human) behavior. If colonizing countries weren’t all patriarchal, I’m sure we would’ve seen many more exceptions.
These exceptions exist for a reason, whether or not they fit your personal worldview.
This is just a bad argument, and has been used to justify all kinds of awful things. why would the fact that humans have always done things a certain way imply that that’s a good thing? Is slavery a good thing? rape? colonization? genocide?
Rigid gender roles have only truly served half of the human population. Even so, men have also suffered in other ways because of them. Why shouldn’t we work to better everyone’s lives, in as many ways as we can manage?
This is demonstrably false. Biologists have known as much for… quite a while. Please consider informing yourself before making claims about important topics.
Yes, these do exist - but that still doesn’t mean it’s a counterpoint to the fact that the “status quo”, if you will, is what I described earlier.
Okay, but that doesn’t mean the argument doesn’t hold in this particular case.
Nobody talks about it being good. I have made zero judgement about if that is a good or bad thing - it’s just a thing. But I feel that the “old times”, where humans were much much less self-conscious and organized, is a solid indicator to how we would act if we were more living off of instinct instead of societal pressure.
I don’t think you understood my comment. I’m not saying that gender roles are a good thing. What I AM saying is that it is, from a biological standpoint, very easy to determine who is a woman and who is not. I’m not saying that every woman should do “womanly” things and every man should do “manly” things.
No, it’s really not, but I do agree that finding factual information regarding this topic is nearly impossible these days as it’s a topic completely enveloped by political bias and everyone tries to bend the facts as much into his desired direction as possible. However, from my viewpoint and some discussions I had with people who are very well versed in that topic, the human is a rather traditional mammal that also behaves like one - including that only women are able to give birth to children.
You are just making this up as you go along. I can disprove your theory by the animal living in my house: cats live solitary lives and therefore do not divide tasks between genders. The idea that females primarily take care of children makes no sense since in most species (incl. most mammals) kids grow up pretty quickly. In most animals there is no sharp distinction of tasks between males and females.
??? No they’re not? Cats do raise their young what the fuck. The female is also the only one that can ensure the kitten survive as she’s the one producing the milk which is necessary. Male cats usually don’t give a fuck about the kitten and just bring food for the mother.
The only exceptions to this is lions (which is sorta a cat), where females do everything and the males are just lying around.
Very cool you think so. Yet it’s the case. I don’t know how I can prove something that obvious to you. Just pick any common mammal you might find outside and there’s a 95% chance that the female animal will take care of the child.
You seem to misunderstand me (deliberately??). Obviously female cats carry and nurse the young, but they also hunt, protect their territory etc (I.e. all the tasks you ascribed to males in your previous posts), because they live solitary.
Then the standard isn’t always X lmfao
Are you trying to seem more stupid than you are right now? Is a human with two arms not the standard because there are a small amount of people with more or less? Is a cat with a tail no longer the standard because there are cats without tails?
A standard is a standard if the majority of cases fit it. If 95% of all humans had brown hair, that would be the standard. Period.
Stop coming up with these dumbass arguments.
You didn’t say it was the standard, you said it was always the standard. If there are exceptions, then it isn’t always the case.