No, it failed because making a good game was pushed aside in favor of making a game with a message—and not even a very good one.
I see! So there was some kind of explicit order, or at least concerted effort with explicit goal, to make a game with “a message”. And I assume we have all the evidence to look at to see the day-to-day chain of events that led to the market failure.
No?
Seriously though, there were many reasons why DAV failed, and “having a Message” was not even in the top 100. Every piece of media has a message.
It makes no sense to have nonbinary people in The Veilguard!
…This is literally just the “historical accuracy” argument.
You’re misrepresenting my point. I never claimed there was an explicit directive to prioritize “a message” over game quality—I said it feels like that’s what happened. That’s a critique of execution, not a conspiracy theory.
Yes, every piece of media has a message, but there’s a difference between a theme that naturally emerges from storytelling and one that feels forced or out of place. The issue isn’t that the game has a message—it’s how it delivers it.
Claiming messaging wasn’t in the “top 100” reasons for failure is just hand-waving. You provide no evidence for that, and even if it’s not the primary reason, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a factor.
Finally, comparing this to the “historical accuracy” argument is a bad-faith deflection. Dragon Age isn’t real history, but it does have established lore and internal consistency. When a game introduces elements that contradict its own worldbuilding, it breaks immersion. That’s the issue.
You’re deflecting the real issue here. The issue isn’t whether that’s factual or just your personal feels. The issue is that you’re saying that was the definitive cause of its failure:
it failed because making a good game was pushed aside in favor of making a game with a message".
And what I was saying was, well, no, it wasn’t the definitive cause. Far from it. There’s a lot of reasons for the game’s failure.
Claiming messaging wasn’t in the “top 100” reasons for failure is just hand-waving. You provide no evidence for that, and even if it’s not the primary reason, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a factor.
I fail to see how you refute my point by saying that. I never said it wasn’t a factor, I said it was insignificant compared to bigger problems.
You know, I didn’t list the reasons because I thought they would be obvious to anyone who’s actually following what’s going on. Buuuut how about the oversaturation of the AAA game publishing space? (People have giant backlogs of great games to play, and there’s no end to this stuff.) Rising game prices? (Big game publishers are getting pretty greedy.) Increasing standards of quality from consumers? (Can’t release a meh game these days, if people are paying $70+ for games, they have to be beyond excellent.)
Most importantly: people actually want games that were made by studios that give a damn about the end product. Bioware is just EA’s puppet, they make product chunks. In my opinion, the biggest reason DAV failed commercially because it was a game nobody was asking for, made by a developer that’s a shadow of its former self and everyone knows that. People had scepticism, and rightfully so.
See? I didn’t even get into what’s in the game. That’s what I meant when I said the Message isn’t even in the top 100 problems.
Finally, comparing this to the “historical accuracy” argument is a bad-faith deflection.
No, perhaps I was being unclear. What I meant by that is that it’s in the same category as “historical accuracy” whinging. It’s a fictional setting, so arguing that it has to match some real world facts and logic is utterly pointless.
Dragon Age isn’t real history, but it does have established lore and internal consistency. When a game introduces elements that contradict its own worldbuilding, it breaks immersion. That’s the issue.
So how exactly did it contradict the worldbuilding? Was it specifically established in DA lore that all nb/trans people will use polymorph magic? I’m genuinely curious here.
Or did you mean that this particular logic doesn’t make sense to you personally? That’s not “lore”. That’s not a worldbuilding issue. That’s projecting your own assumptions.
Besides: Even if it was specifically earlier established in DA lore that all nb/trans characters will just use polymorph stuff, who cares? The writers are well within their rights to retcon their stuff. Worldbuilding is not dogma.
I see! So there was some kind of explicit order, or at least concerted effort with explicit goal, to make a game with “a message”. And I assume we have all the evidence to look at to see the day-to-day chain of events that led to the market failure.
No?
Seriously though, there were many reasons why DAV failed, and “having a Message” was not even in the top 100. Every piece of media has a message.
…This is literally just the “historical accuracy” argument.
You’re misrepresenting my point. I never claimed there was an explicit directive to prioritize “a message” over game quality—I said it feels like that’s what happened. That’s a critique of execution, not a conspiracy theory.
Yes, every piece of media has a message, but there’s a difference between a theme that naturally emerges from storytelling and one that feels forced or out of place. The issue isn’t that the game has a message—it’s how it delivers it.
Claiming messaging wasn’t in the “top 100” reasons for failure is just hand-waving. You provide no evidence for that, and even if it’s not the primary reason, that doesn’t mean it wasn’t a factor.
Finally, comparing this to the “historical accuracy” argument is a bad-faith deflection. Dragon Age isn’t real history, but it does have established lore and internal consistency. When a game introduces elements that contradict its own worldbuilding, it breaks immersion. That’s the issue.
You’re deflecting the real issue here. The issue isn’t whether that’s factual or just your personal feels. The issue is that you’re saying that was the definitive cause of its failure:
And what I was saying was, well, no, it wasn’t the definitive cause. Far from it. There’s a lot of reasons for the game’s failure.
I fail to see how you refute my point by saying that. I never said it wasn’t a factor, I said it was insignificant compared to bigger problems.
You know, I didn’t list the reasons because I thought they would be obvious to anyone who’s actually following what’s going on. Buuuut how about the oversaturation of the AAA game publishing space? (People have giant backlogs of great games to play, and there’s no end to this stuff.) Rising game prices? (Big game publishers are getting pretty greedy.) Increasing standards of quality from consumers? (Can’t release a meh game these days, if people are paying $70+ for games, they have to be beyond excellent.)
Most importantly: people actually want games that were made by studios that give a damn about the end product. Bioware is just EA’s puppet, they make product chunks. In my opinion, the biggest reason DAV failed commercially because it was a game nobody was asking for, made by a developer that’s a shadow of its former self and everyone knows that. People had scepticism, and rightfully so.
See? I didn’t even get into what’s in the game. That’s what I meant when I said the Message isn’t even in the top 100 problems.
No, perhaps I was being unclear. What I meant by that is that it’s in the same category as “historical accuracy” whinging. It’s a fictional setting, so arguing that it has to match some real world facts and logic is utterly pointless.
So how exactly did it contradict the worldbuilding? Was it specifically established in DA lore that all nb/trans people will use polymorph magic? I’m genuinely curious here.
Or did you mean that this particular logic doesn’t make sense to you personally? That’s not “lore”. That’s not a worldbuilding issue. That’s projecting your own assumptions.
Besides: Even if it was specifically earlier established in DA lore that all nb/trans characters will just use polymorph stuff, who cares? The writers are well within their rights to retcon their stuff. Worldbuilding is not dogma.