Maoo [none/use name]

Given what American flags are made of probably carcinogenic fumes

Burn it

jQuery bby

Hegel’s relation to Marxism is that Marx and Engels were big Hegel nerds (the Young Hegelians) before they got cool and they decided to incorporate a small piece of Hegel’s thinking (the dialectic) while flipping all the rest on its head.

So it’s useful to know Hegel so you know the lineage of thought but important to know that Marx used Hegelian thought as a critical target more than anything.

Hell yeah

This is a classic move where the students will get absolutely nothing material but the admin gets everything they want.

If any of you are helping with encampments, make sure to spread the consciousness that merely meeting or planning something is not a material concession is literally in PR playbooks used by universities to pacify student movements.

1. “Offensive” was autocorrected to “official”

Okay so it’s just a straw man then. Can you have this conversation without inventing things for me to defend?

2. Russians did not destroy infrastructure because they hope to use for themselves (the fact that I have to explain this makes me think engaging with you is a waste of my time).

Are you sure? Russians also have a cultural connection to Ukraine, particularly the Kievan Rus. There is/was also a need to manufacture consent for invading a “cousin”. Also, how do you discount them simply being less brutal than the NATO countries that have consistently done far, far, far worse to their targets?

It seems you’d like to avoid the reality that Russia has been so much less brutal. After all, this flies in the face of the (usually racist) narrative about the invasion, which seems to have successfully indoctrinated you into a belief in simplistic camps of good vs. bad. You sure do seem to suffer under the childish illusion that if I push back on the anti-Russia nonsense out there I must be offering a defense of invasion, like I support it. In reality, this is so beside the point that I have never said anything remotely like this, but it is inconceivable to your propagandized worldview that anyone would be doing anything other than being for team A or team B rather than looking at a greater context.

That’s the difference between a war of invasion and the mindless bombing the USA likes to do in whatever conflict they get involve in on the other side if the globe

I already gave the example of Iraq, which was two full invasions and a horrific sanctions regime.

Typing on phone is annoying, so my messages get a bit terse. But your whole rant previously is about how bad the Ukrainians are.

No it wasn’t.

OK, sure. I have not much interest in that. But, how does that justify the Russian attack?

See what I mean? You’re limited by your ideology to conceive only a team sports understanding. You can’t imagine that I would (correctly) describe UA from a critical perspective without being pro-SMO. Not only that, you seemingly can’t imagine there being anything else to care about. Only this one thing enters your mind, lol.

I don’t think my framing has been that myopic to leave so much room for interpretation, though. I am pushing back on false imperialist propaganda narratives that have successfully misled those in imperial core countries and among sycophants for those countries. The wider problem is imperialism itself, which first undermined the Soviet Union and contributed to its destruction, then dismantled Eastern Europe, killing tend of millions, and finally isolated Russia et al from the imperial spoils, giving them the third world / peripheral treatment. Capitalist Russia was forced into its current position as paraiah by pushing back against this and attempting to reestablish itself as an independent power (national bourgeois interests) rather than an exploitation factory for the US, UK, Germany etc (intentional bourgeois interests). And in response, it has received a new cold war treatment of isolation and maximum pressure from the groups drawing from the literal legacies of literal Nazi staffing and ideologies and pogroms.

If you want to understand the point of this, aside from the value in not being constantly wrong about geopolitics, it is that you should fight to end this regime of maximum pressure, exploitation, and militarism that your own country, whatever it is, likely either supports, (proximally) benefits from, or has significant movements attempting to do so. I would hope that being consistently wrong and having to literally make things up about what I’m saying to make your arguments easier would be the impetus to become informed and start pointing the right fingers and doing the right work in your own local context. Or maybe just not saying things until you’ve done research?

How is any of this Ukrainian nenonazi stuff relevant?

All of it. The imperialist narrative tries to paper over the coup, the ethnic cleansing, and the nature of the civil war that are proximal root causes of the invasion. The timing and quantity of shelling in Donbas is conspicuous just prior to invasion. So is the Western imposition on killing negotiations right after invasion. These things are all tied together - who funded the neonazis? Why are they in military command? Where and when did they become organized? It all comes back to imperialist projects.

Russia was never under threat from Ukraine.

This is absurd. You don’t think NATO encroachment and a civil war on the border is a threat? What world do you live on?

Even if literal-Hitler was reborn there, how is bombing Kiev helping anyway?

Hitler was just one guy. Naziism was born of the conditions and politics of Germany and its capitalist class, a lashing back against the left that took great inspiration from US empire and genocide.

Anyways, why bomb Kiev? At first, to try and force early contrition and negotiations of a Minsk III type deal. Guess who put a stop to that.

Authoritarian governments LOVE wars

This is a dog whistle for political miseducation. All governments are authoritarian. This includes yours. Many people forget this because they accept, or are ignorant of, where that authority is directed and who has to accept the violence. What is more authoritarian than pushing a coup in UA, for example? Perhaps your government helped with that. Either way, every state is authoritarian.

it gives them an enemy, it gives them power, it gives them a mean to get rid of political opponents.

If the bourgeois that dominate a country don’t want a war, it won’t happen. The main impetus for war is usually a geopolitical struggle that has, at its base, ruling class interests. Russia is a direct threat to the piece of the pie that Western imperialists want for themselves. They want to own and sell, for example, Russia’s oil. They want to have control over the people, resources for which they contend with Russia. Similarly, instability and extraction from countries near Russia benefit the imperialist project but hurt Russia (e.g. Syria). This is a constant and dominant aspect of capitalist geopolitics. They do not let you rest or develop independently. You will be destroyed if you are not aggressive in opposition. There is a massive graveyard of countries that failed to do so sufficiently.

Russia plays a role as a country isolated from the international capitalist pie that faces constant and extreme pressure to become that aforementioned extraction target by international capital. Its international actions are grounded in a reaction to this: the interests of its national bourgeoisie that would aspire to be international were they allowed into that fold.

So we can either believe Putin a philanthropist ready to sacrifice bravely his troops for no benefit but the de-nazification of a nuke-free, not-in-nato country, or we can recognise this as just a pretext for grabbing land (supported by the preservation of infrastructure).

Obviously there are other, more correct ways to think about this aside from this Great Man Theory false dichotomy.

Oh and that part I wrote about authoritarian governments loving war applies to Russia just as well by the way.

I assumed you were applying it exclusively to Russia.

After all of this, if Russia is in it for no personal benefit but a moral victory, why are they not withdrawing? After all they have supposedly nothing to gain by continuing the war, since they don’t intend to occupy the country?

Like I said, Russia initially wanted to force a Minsk III, as evidenced by its actions. The Western controllers of UA, who gladly support its Nazi militaries, prevented this. The RF then had to choose between withdrawal with no gains or an attempt to maintain a status quo invasion, occupying the Donbas and further pushing for contrition. This is, further, in the context of the West using their financial nuclear options on Russia (and really, the economies of Western Europe as well) and utterly failing to directly damage Russia, and in fact subsidizing it via higher oil and gas prices on oil they were still easily selling. The status quo was comparatively tolerable. There is the additional outcome of the long attritional war strategy they have undertaken, which is the effective demilitarization of UA over time due to lack of manpower, materials, and economic base. This accomplishes a similar goal to exclusion from NATO. The territory of the Donbas additionally buys a buffer zone from NATO and access to coastal oil reserves.

In short, Western actions made the current trajectory the most favorable one for Russia to head in.

Such a long post to avoid explaining why the Russian official is justified.

What Russian official? I haven’t talked about a Russian official nor has the person I responded to said anything about that to me.

Half of what you wrote is in bad faith (not destroying critical infrastructure… Out of good heart? Really?)

It’s kind of funny that while incorrectly labeling what I said as bad faith you actually made some things up to straw man me.

Anyways it’s no bad faith I’m directly telling you that Russian has been relatively restrained in their tactics. They did not target civilian infrastructure as NATO countries repeatedly have, though they are increasingly doing so as part of a ramp up.

Perhaps you’re unfamiliar with, for example, how civilians were targeted in Iraq for decades, first through the destruction of infrastructure during the Gulf War, then through sanctions that killed millions, then the invasion that further decimated civilian infrastructure and intentionally employed terrorism. Compare the two and get back to me.

or simply not relevant (should we invade every fascist government out there? Besides, nothing better to consolidate an authoritarian government than a war, so good job Russia on that front ?)

What did I say that was not relevant? Have I suggested any countries should be invaded? I have no idea what you’re talking about.

You seem confused.

Even if it were so, Russia provides it a raison d’être. […]

Rather than address the point I made you decided to go on your own Russia Bad tangent.

It seems that you don’t really care that you’re being dishonest. You sure didn’t reply to where I previously pointed out bad faith behavior. That’s something else you share with fascists.

Aside from being stupid and wrong it’s also boring so I’ll probably ignore you pretty soon.

Yeah, so shooting those people and kidnapping their children will provide a great way for them to build a better social consciousness and not double down on chauvinism. […]

More deflection lol. You just said “yeah”, implying you know you were wrong to minimize UA’s Nazis in high places, but then decided to change the subject rather than honestly accept the fault.

PS if you haven’t noticed I’m ignoring everythy you say after catching an example of bad faith. So far that’s the first sentence in each response!

Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine? You seem to think it had no cause

There is no justification for levelling cities and kidnapping children. None.

You didn’t answer my question. I believe in you! Use that big brain to think about what I’m asking!

You are arguing against yourself here.

You think me calling your little stories fantastical nonsense is arguing against myself? It’s starting to look like you have a grab-bag of meningless quips rather than thoughts.

You said that if UA killed Putin and sieged Moscow,

No I didn’t lol. I assume you didn’t read the usernames very carefully and are just very confused about everything all the time.

Please read Article 5. It doesn’t say what you think it says.

Feel free to share your thoughts about how I’m wrong. This is how people usually share their knowledge and disagreements - if they actually understand something.

Yes, NATO’s goal is that if Russia decides to attack one member, they have to fight all members. […]

Deflection to avoid the point. Again.

Yes, defending your country from people who burn your cities and steal your children has no point, we should all bow down to Putin.

Deflection to avoid the point. Again.

Sounds like your answer to their question is yes: you cheer the Saudi invasion of Bahrain and NATO’s support for it. Truly monstrous.

No. Please go and work on your basic reading comprehension.

Hey you’re the one who, rather than directly answering the question (you seem to have trouble giving straight answers), instead started justifying it. You’ve gotta be more clear in your meanings if you implied the polar opposite of your actual view.

So, what is the direct, straight answer to the original question about the Saudis invading Bahrain?

Yeah, Ukraine has no agency. If you are not just repeating Russian propaganda here, you could try harder to think for yourself.

You mentioned earlier that this is a proxy war. Do you know what proxies are? lol.

Your incoherence aside, to the extent that agency means anything when applied to states, UA has quite limited agency, yes. As a state, it was couped about a decade ago and was then plunged into civil war. Its elections are arguably illegitimate because a large minority of the country, the one targeted for ethnic cleansing, hasn’t voted in national elections in a decade. It has already sold off much of its assets and bows to the whims of other states acting against its best interests. Its paramilitaries, now part of the official armed forces, have substantial autonomy and routinely ignore orders. It was easily invaded and would be easily overrun if Russia used NATO methods, i.e. did not treat civilians as humans.

Though I should point out that “agency” is something that people have. Individuals. States don’t work that way. They’re controlled by social interests, political interests. I’ve helped you out by assuming what you really mean is sovereignty.

Anyways, yes, NATO countries made the decisions I mentioned. Are you unfamiliar with the early peace talks? Sounds like it. More pretending.

UA will not recover for generations unless Russia takes the whole thing and pumps it full of resources

Like it has always done with its colonies. I grew up in one of them, I know how that looks like. Incompetence, theft and agitation. That’s all Russian-style leadership is capable of.

Where and when did you grow up?

So yeah, the US may not be the best led country, and it has indeed committed gross crimes against humanity, and an alliance with them may indeed be a deal with the devil.

The relationship between the US and UA is not an alliance. It’s far more predatory than that and I’ve given you examples. You ignored them.

But you can’t ally with Russia, you can only submit to them.

If you count the USSR, which you seem to conflate with Russia, then it was literally allied with the US during WWII lol. Possibly the most famous alliance in popular knowledge.

The US may swindle you out of your money, but Russia will rape your women and kidnap your children, and by the way, also rob you of your money as well.

Hey look, a racist Nazi mythology! You sure do repeat a lot of those.

I think you just don’t understand what Russia did and is still doing to Eastern Europe

Oh?

and you are sitting in a cushy chair ideologizing and damning people for ideological impurity

The people I’ve damned are Nazis and war criminals.

when if you were in their place, you would have to live with a daily fear of being robbed of your dignity, your freedom, and your life, even just for the crime of showing pronouns in your username.

Ahahahaha what are you talking about?

I just don’t see that NATO ever threatened military action against nations supplying the Russian side. Do NATO countries fire off weekly nuclear threats against Pakistan, Iran, China or North Korea for sending munitions to Russia? Does Ukraine?

NATO is the military wing of the global seat of capital. It does not need to threaten to invade as its first course of action. Instead, it first makes economic threats and supports coups.

Has the US instigated sanctions on those countries? Have any of them faced a coup attempt lately? Is one of them frequently bombed by Israel? These things are not separate.

Yes, there are far-right elements in Ukraine, yes, some are even in the government.

As a general rule I recommend not minimizing Nazis. “Some” is minimizing. There was a period where you couldn’t find a picture of “brave UA soldiers” without a wolfsangel or swastika or sonnenrad, nor a UA politician not shaking hands with them. The head of the MoD said and says Nazi shit all the time and the entire country has been rehabilitating Bandyera as a national hero, putting the committers of pogroms on street signs.

Oh, and don’t forget: ethnically cleansing ethnic Russians for over a decade and violently suppressing the left.

If you defend that shit you are a Nazi sympathizer.

And if this is news to you then why do you think you should have opinions? Isn’t humility better?

I thought the party line was three days? Or is that too fantastical a claim nowadays.

If Russia acted like NATO does it would have been over in days, yes. NATO has prolonged this war but not on its own: Russia has shown massive and unexpected restraint, or at least unexpected if you’re used to the tactics of the “civilized” West.

Russia could have, but did not, destroy the entirety of UA’s infrastructure in a few days.

Overwhelmingly RUSSIAN landmines, heavy metals from RUSSIAN military machinery, and unexploded RUSSIAN bombs.

While much of that is disputable it’s also a deflection to avoid the point that was made. You’re falling into a trap in thinking that NATO can’t take blame if Russia does something bad. This is embarrassingly bad logic.

You are presenting a false dichotomy. Russia was not obligated to murder all those people, Russia was not obligated to flatten Mariupol, Russia is not obligated to invade Ukraine.

Do you know why Russia invaded Ukraine? You seem to think it had no cause and was not responding to anything for which NATO shares blame.

Ukraine is obligated to defend itself.

Ukraine is in a much worse position because it’s following NATO dictates. Its only option is to follow NATO dictates because it hasn’t been an independent country since at least 2014, not because it’s the only strategic option.

Ukraine could have signed a peace deal days into the invasion.

Right now, UA’s future is being thrown away because it’s being used as a proxy for Western interests, not because it’s the best, let alone only, option.

Russia has a choice to stop this war, Ukraine does not. Not if it still wants to exist after.

You have it completely reversed. UA is on the path to its own destruction due to the decisions of its captured state. It’s forced into massive debt, its assets sold off to imperialists, is suffering huge losses in population by sending them into a meat grinder commanded by Nazis, and it will still 100% lose this war. There is no serious person that thinks UA will win.

It is. If Ukraine retaliated in a proportionate way against Russia, Russia would escalate the conflict. (…)

So much hypothetical and make-believe nonsense. It is a flagrant escalation and you should respect yourself more and recognize the obvious.

By the way, you like to act as if Russia’s escalations and threats are just elements of nature. If Russia, a nuclear power feels threatened, it will use nuclear weapons, that’s just the way of things.

Russia has been repeatedly threatened and has never used nukes. It’s only a member of NATO that has ever used nukes and it was on two large civilian population centers. A very basic grade school history lesson contradicts you.

But if France, a nuclear power, has people carrying small arms into battle against invading soldiers, that’s an irresponsible escalation.

Do you see how you had to massage your language to be more passive and therefore avoid the obvious? France entering a war by sending troops is an obvious escalation and per NATO’s own logic is basically dangling a nuclear conflict over everyone’s heads via Article 5.

If you have to use this bad faith logic, don’t you think that means you already kind of know you’re wrong? Deep down? Instead of doubling down and doing Nazi apologetics, which I hope is reluctant, you could instead take a break and resolve this cognitive dissonance, maybe even do some readings.

NATO has a duty to avoid escalating the war (…)

Not while pretending it’s anything other than a belligerent and escalatory organization. Initially staffed with literal German Nazis by the way. We’re telling you what NATO is and why escalation is bad for Ukrainians and you’re acting like you should be able to go tell teacher that the Russians are hypocrites or something.

My conclusion is that you have an unrealistic idea of what the possible outcomes here are. Only someone who hates Ukrainians or who (even erroneously!) thinks they can win would think “but it’s only fair!” is comparable to their destruction.

You’re also confused about this being a Good Guy vs Bad Guy issue. All of your argumentation is centered around deflecting blame to Russia when you’re presented with basic facts about NATO’s role. Rather than acknowledge, you think it’s great argumentation to say, “Russia bad”, as if there is a person here that’s saying Russia is good. This is a fantasy you’ve constructed to avoid having an adult conversion.

I wasn’t aware France would be sending soldiers to help Ukraine violently quell a sectarian protest and uprising of Ukrainian people

Sounds like your answer to their question is yes: you cheer the Saudi invasion of Bahrain and NATO’s support for it. Truly monstrous.

I suspect you learned of this for the first time during this conversation, but that doesn’t make your response any better. Bloodthirsty LARPing.

Never said that. It’s obvious NATO has a vested interest in Ukraine winning the conflict.

Wrong. While there are plenty of dum-dums in NATO, they don’t think UA will win lol. Their actions have consistently led to UA losses in order to try to hurt Russia. NATO countries have decided to sacrifice the Ukrainian people for this project and they keep hoping it will exhaust Russia. At this point, UA will not recover for generations unless Russia takes the whole thing and pumps it full of resources, as NATO countries will just strip the remainder for parts.

There are many ways! It’s all up to how you would prefer to start! Many people begin as junk food vegans, eating prepared foods from restaurants and the freezer and refrigerated section (veggie/fake meat etc). Others use it as a reason to start cooking as well, for fun or to save time or money or because there’s no ready-made alternative for their favorite food. And others focus on eating “healthier” at the same time, doing a mix of the above while also trying to change other food habits at the same time.

I personally recommend finding vegan food alternatives that hit similar flavor profiles to what you currently eat. For example, I used to really like cheese but most vegan cheeses are bad so instead I found salty + oily + savory foods that would scratch the same itch. Like nutritional yeast and oil on popcorn.

Sometimes direct substitutes can be good as well, though I recommend approaching them as their own similar food rather than a 1:1 taste replacement. A veggie burger (black bean or fake meat) will hit the same spot as a meat burger, IMO.

What are the kinda of foods you currently eat and would like vegan alternatives for? You probably want to cw them if it’s specific meat references but I’m happy to suggest some ideas for how to replace them with easy meals.

As with all reactionary positions among allies or comrades, we must envision how to build a world in which they are abolished through practice and consciousness.

This is not just because we have duties as socialists or whatever, but because it’s the only way we can, as individuals, practically organize without developing misanthropy. You won’t just find carnist socialists out there repeating absurd reactionary talking points and reverting to bullying behavior to punch right on this. It’s also not the only time you’ll find people, including socialists, draping themselves in an identity in order to deflect from a criticism. Socialists, particularly Western leftists, are also pissbabies that fall apart during basic disagreements, though luckily more and more are developing the skill of patience and seeking understanding.

So, to move past it, you have to focus less on the reactionary they are (on a given topic) and instead on their capacity to eventually change or to indirectly help us build by putting more people into the pipeline.

For a non-vegan example, there are many racist socialists out there, having absorbed the base level casual racism of their societies as well as any personal peculiarities. You actually can’t operate as a socialist in the West without contending with this. If you made your org truly antiracist in the sense that you purged everyone holding onto any casually racist views, you’d no longer have organizations at all. There is casual racism in black socialist groups, in indigenous groups, in South Asian groups. Much of it internalized. If we couldn’t handle that racism and try to correct it, we would have no organizations at all.

I would recommend getting vegan comrades so that you can have a safe place to retreat. When you run out of steam fighting with reactionary sentiment, they can be a way to recharge. They will also be how you win people over. One person saying veganism is good is just a person with the right opinion. A small group is an organization that can recruit and influence.

Fro a rhetorical outcome, yeah.

That’s how low the bar is…